Difference between Daiwa SV boost and mag z boost?

[woolleyfooley]

I’m trying to wrap my head around Daiwa’s braking system. Most of their reels use SV boost for braking, but some such as the steez a2 use mag z boost.

I understand that SV boost uses an inductor on the spool that moves outwards into the magnets in the side plate in 2 stages during a cast. Mag z boost also does this if I’m not mistaken. 
 

Is mag z boost just a variant of SV boost? What makes it different? Do they each have their own strengths and weaknesses? If so what are they?

 

Thanks in advance. 

[webertime]

SV is a "heavier"/stronger brake.

All daiwa brakes operate on an inductor getting pulled into a magnet.  The different models (PE, Hyper long cast, boost, SV boost, Magforce Z, Magforce 3D, etc) are variations on that general design.  Some have smaller inductors or lighter magnets.  Some use a softer/lighter spring attaching the spool and inductor.  Personally OG Magforce Z is the best.

[bulldog1935]

49 minutes ago, woolleyfooley said:

... Is mag z boost just a variant of SV boost? What makes it different? Do they each have their own strengths and weaknesses? If so what are they?

 

Thanks in advance. 

Yes, this is exactly correct, MagForce/Z/SV are progressions of the very same brake system.  

SV is characterized by the lightest-mass inductor, essentially providing a lighter brake, offset by the return spring rate, and less total spool weight to give it better light-end performance.    

Boost provides two different spring rates for retracting the inductor, intended to get more cast distance in the back-half of the cast using a wider range of lure weights.  

[Bigbox99]

The Boost spools use two springs to create a dual stage over the previous single stage springs. 

 

The difference between Magforce Z and SV is that Magforce Z uses centrifugal weights to extend the inductor towards the magnets and SV uses two plastic ramps to extend the spool when the inductor is twisted. 

 

On SV spools the twisting occurs from the difference in inertia between the SV spool inductor sitting in the magnet ring and the spool rotating.  The braking effect on the inductor wants to rotate the inductor slower than the spools rotation so turns slower than the spool for a 1/4 turn and extends from the two ramps interacting and locks out until the spring force can overcome the two ramps and slide down into the seated position.  

 

Magforce Z doesn't care about the magnets and can have short inductors quite far away from the spool when retacted because they use centrifugal force to extend the inductor into the magnet rings.

 

SV is just a cheaper and lighter way of emulating the behavior of Magforce Z.  Sometime this means that the SV spool is super light and more controlled and sometimes it does not.  It depends on the braking profile of the spool.  There are many Daiwa spools with many different braking profiles with just modern Magforce Z Boost ranging from super fast long casters like the HLC to more control orientated spools like the JDM Zillion HD. 

 

As a general rule for stock spools in stock reels (you can swap and mod Daiwa spools) the SV are more control orientated for skipping and pitching into cover and the Magforce Z spools are better for distance at the loss of some low speed control.  

[ABU is overpriced]

SV for control. Z for distance. Never tried Z Boost, tho.

[woolleyfooley]

23 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

Yes, this is exactly correct, MagForce/Z/SV are progressions of the very same brake system.  

SV is characterized by the lightest-mass inductor, essentially providing a lighter brake, offset by the return spring rate, and less total spool weight to give it better light-end performance.    

Boost provides two different spring rates for retracting the inductor, intended to get more cast distance in the back-half of the cast using a wider range of lure weights.  

Interesting. Thank you. So would an sv boost and a mag z boost spool both have two different spring rates? If so is the main difference between sv boost and mag z boost the braking profile as you said? 

[bulldog1935]

Here's your homework, and the photo that dropped out 

If you look at inertia, acceleration (force) and jerk at spool start, it takes force to start a spool spinning, and less force to keep it spinning - the extra energy after spool start needs to be removed by brake force to prevent start-up backlash.  Jerk is closer to impact, and you can look at it as magnifying acceleration-force by 4 to 10 times.  If you try to absorb both jerk and acceleration energy with a single "medium" spring, that spring is a trade-off between being able to remove all the jerk energy (especially casting heavy weights), and removing too much acceleration energy (doesn't let the spool spin up all the way) for maximum cast distance.  

 

You can look at  the stiffer spring and softer spring of Boost as separate springs for jerk and acceleration.  The stiffer spring only moves the inductor deeper with jerk and retracts quickly.  The softer spring engages the inductor half-way and gets you through acceleration over-shoot with minimal energy subtracted from the spinning spool.  

 

Lenz brake force is proportional to inductor mass.  I would look at MagZ with greater inductor mass as a stronger brake for more total spool + line mass and casting heavier weights, and SV as a slightly weaker brake for less total spool + line mass and casting somewhat lighter weights. 

note in this photo how the purple-anodize inductor is both thicker and deeper than orange-anodize inductor on SV spools.  

 

[woolleyfooley]

17 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

Here's your homework, and the photo that dropped out 

If you look at inertia, acceleration (force) and jerk at spool start, it takes force to start a spool spinning, and less force to keep it spinning - the extra energy after spool start needs to be removed by brake force to prevent start-up backlash.  Jerk is closer to impact, and you can look at it as magnifying acceleration-force by 4 to 10 times.  If you try to absorb both jerk and acceleration energy with a single "medium" spring, that spring is a trade-off between being able to remove all the jerk energy (especially casting heavy weights), and removing too much acceleration energy (doesn't let the spool spin up all the way) for maximum cast distance.  

You can look at  the stiffer spring and softer spring of Boost as separate springs for jerk and acceleration.  The stiffer spring only moves the inductor deeper with jerk and retracts quickly.  The softer spring engages the inductor half-way and gets you through acceleration over-shoot with minimal energy subtracted from the spinning spool.  

Lenz brake force is proportional to inductor mass.  I would look at MagZ with greater inductor mass as a stronger brake for more total spool + line mass and casting heavier weights, and SV as a slightly weaker brake for less total spool + line mass and casting somewhat lighter weights. 

 

That makes a lot of sense! Thank you!