Shimano's DC patent is expiring very soon. Flood gates on Daiwa DC reels are about to open.

[woolleyfooley]

I hope not! Then my current Daiwa reels would be useless and I’d have to buy the latest and greatest! 😁

[webertime]

I don't want to say yes and I don't see the need for a Daiwa DC reel.  But...  New stuff sells. I think the number of good combinations of inductor, spring, magnet and detent (clicks/range of adjustments) has sort of been hit at this point for Daiwas mag brakes.  Keep going lighter, sure.  Make them even more bombproof, ok...  but for Daiwa it's pretty incremental at this point what they can do.  Not complaining at all...  Rolex is the same way.

[ABU is overpriced]

3 hours ago, webertime said:

I don't want to say yes and I don't see the need for a Daiwa DC reel.  But...  New stuff sells. I think the number of good combinations of inductor, spring, magnet and detent (clicks/range of adjustments) has sort of been hit at this point for Daiwas mag brakes.  Keep going lighter, sure.  Make them even more bombproof, ok...  but for Daiwa it's pretty incremental at this point what they can do.  Not complaining at all...  Rolex is the same way.

The competition alone in the DC space would bring nothing but a big positive. Shimano's IDC-5 has been around for way too long. 

[FrnkNsteen]

I think it will come down to Daiwa's marketing team assessing if the sales would exceed the investment and be profitable. It honestly wouldn't take much research for them to see all the forum talk about "I bought one and it was cool at first, but wouldn't buy another one" to make a decision. Unless it is cheap and easy to copy that is!!

 

Personally, I bought a couple when the Curado and SLX DCs came out. Kind of cool at first, but didn't take too long to get tired of that noise, and honestly didn't see what all the hype was about.

 

Originally bought the SLX version for my wife as she was less experienced with baitcasting reels, thinking it may help. She tried it for a bit then found she liked my Alphas, and then the Daiwa SV 70 when it came out saying she liked them better for size, fit and function.

 

I'm more interested in what happens when Daiwa's brake system patents expire. In my opinion, that will be more of a shakeup than the whole DC thing.

[casts_by_fly]

2 hours ago, FrnkNsteen said:

I think it will come down to Daiwa's marketing team assessing if the sales would exceed the investment and be profitable. It honestly wouldn't take much research for them to see all the forum talk about "I bought one and it was cool at first, but wouldn't buy another one" to make a decision. Unless it is cheap and easy to copy that is!!

 

That's largely my point above.  I'm sure they have run the numbers and made a decision.  Any time there is a patent expiring that you are interested in 'using' you'll do your research and development ahead of the patent expiring.  There is an existing product in the market so plenty of sales data to go from.  Internet forums can be used, but with care.  You're sampling a very specific subpopulation.  But with the existing DCs (across multiple pricepoints) you have good sales figures to work from and know exactly how big the market is.  You might make some assumptions about what you can do better than the incumbent, but then again they have had a multi year head start on you. 

 

The DC adds $50-$80 over the base model depending which you look at.  With competition I could see that going down some at the high end, less at the low end.  It's an added physical system plus electronics which all require assembly.  

 

2 hours ago, FrnkNsteen said:

I'm more interested in what happens when Daiwa's brake system patents expire. In my opinion, that will be more of a shakeup than the whole DC thing.

 

This is something I agree with. When that patent expires you can bet that Doyo will be all over it and the rest of the market reels will get it quickly.

 

18 hours ago, ABU is overpriced said:

I am sensing some resistance here. Its as if those who primarily use shimano reels, don't want to see DC reels from daiwa, even when the patent is expired. But if you believe that Daiwa ain't gonna be taking advantage of this, that's living in a delusional world.

 

I'm sure they have done all of their research and will make their own decision.  Based on what I know of the market and what I think they will do- they won't do it.  I don't think it adds anything to their portfolio that they need or can market.  I can see Doyo getting on board with it before Daiwa.  

 

18 hours ago, ABU is overpriced said:

See? And this is what you're not taking into consideration. Not everyone is fishing from the boat, ESPECIALLY IN JAPAN. Casting distance is very important when you're a bank fisherman. As someone who primarily fishes from the bank, i have sold all my SV spools (SV Boost included), because they cannot compete with my other spools, even spools released in the early 2000s.

 

There is no doubt that casting distance is important to some people.  And if you have a reel that has a clear casting distance advantage (claimable statistically) that is something that you might want to market.  But again you're talking about a very small subset of the market.  Most baitcaster fishermen (don't forget that not all bass fishermen use casting reels) couldn't even take advantage of a reel that gives then an extra 10'- it takes a good bit of experience to consistently maximize a reel.  And if distance is my concern and I am an experienced caster who can actually cast, a DC reel isn't what I'm going to grab.  I'm grabbing a wide, deep spooled reel with good free bearings and nothing to get in the way of me casting it.  

[rgasr63]

I don't see myself that it would matter much. I found that the basic Shimano slx works best for me, maybe not you. When you are spending 💰 for a reel and match a rod to it, I believe it should be used instead of in the corner collecting dust. Spinning reels are less expensive but the same principle applies. It's all about options so yours may be different. 

[ABU is overpriced]

6 hours ago, FrnkNsteen said:

I think it will come down to Daiwa's marketing team assessing if the sales would exceed the investment and be profitable. It honestly wouldn't take much research for them to see all the forum talk about "I bought one and it was cool at first, but wouldn't buy another one" to make a decision. Unless it is cheap and easy to copy that is!!

 

Personally, I bought a couple when the Curado and SLX DCs came out. Kind of cool at first, but didn't take too long to get tired of that noise, and honestly didn't see what all the hype was about.

 

Originally bought the SLX version for my wife as she was less experienced with baitcasting reels, thinking it may help. She tried it for a bit then found she liked my Alphas, and then the Daiwa SV 70 when it came out saying she liked them better for size, fit and function.

 

I'm more interested in what happens when Daiwa's brake system patents expire. In my opinion, that will be more of a shakeup than the whole DC thing.

They made the IMZ, a halo product nobody bought. So yes, an investment on something much simpler that is the DC module, would be an easy investment for a massive company that is Daiwa.

Btw do we know when the daiwa patent on mag brakes is expiring?

[Dan N]

I have no need or want for a DC reel , no matter who makes it.

[woolleyfooley]

10 hours ago, FrnkNsteen said:

 

 

I'm more interested in what happens when Daiwa's brake system patents expire. In my opinion, that will be more of a shakeup than the whole DC thing.

Anyone know when that would be?

[Hulkster]

On 11/12/2024 at 2:39 PM, Rockhopper said:

DC is pointless to me and I could care less who sells it.

Agreed. DC reels are for amateurs!!

[4g63power]

On 11/13/2024 at 9:11 AM, ABU is overpriced said:

They made the IMZ, a halo product nobody bought. So yes, an investment on something much simpler that is the DC module, would be an easy investment for a massive company that is Daiwa.

Btw do we know when the daiwa patent on mag brakes is expiring?

How do you know nobody bought it? You live in japan and have seen sales data or your pure assumption just because?

[ABU is overpriced]

23 minutes ago, 4g63power said:

How do you know nobody bought it? You live in japan and have seen sales data or your pure assumption just because?

Its pretty simple, i watch a bunch of japanese videos on youtube, and literally all reels that sell well, are always in a bunch of videos. IMZ ain't one of those reels. Secondly, i follow the used market quite a lot, and the IMZ is so rare that they might as well not exist. So unless i have proof directly from Daiwa, there is zero chance that this reel sold well.

[4g63power]

2 hours ago, ABU is overpriced said:

Its pretty simple, i watch a bunch of japanese videos on youtube, and literally all reels that sell well, are always in a bunch of videos. IMZ ain't one of those reels. Secondly, i follow the used market quite a lot, and the IMZ is so rare that they might as well not exist. So unless i have proof directly from Daiwa, there is zero chance that this reel sold well.

Yea exactly what i thought lol

[webertime]

Shimano = $4,500,000,000 in revenue (25% is fishing, so $1,125,000,000)

 

Daiwa (Globeride) $808,000,000 in total revenue (fishing, golf, cycling)

 

Just Shimano's fishing, is 39% larger than ALL of Daiwa.  From a business point of view the expense of developing a DC reel is stupid for Daiwa given how pretty they're sitting now.  

[MediumMouthBass]

3 hours ago, webertime said:

Shimano = $4,500,000,000 in revenue (25% is fishing, so $1,125,000,000)

 

Daiwa (Globeride) $808,000,000 in total revenue (fishing, golf, cycling)

 

Just Shimano's fishing, is 39% larger than ALL of Daiwa.  From a business point of view the expense of developing a DC reel is stupid for Daiwa given how pretty they're sitting now.  

This is a shocker.

I would have bet money on Daiwa making more money than Shimano for fishing sales.

Wow.

[ABU is overpriced]

6 hours ago, 4g63power said:

Yea exactly what i thought lol

If you believe that following the used market is not accurate, you have never properly followed it. I cannot think of a single popular reel from shimano or daiwa that isn't or wasn't heavily flooded on the used market at some time. Can you?

2 hours ago, webertime said:

Shimano = $4,500,000,000 in revenue (25% is fishing, so $1,125,000,000)

 

Daiwa (Globeride) $808,000,000 in total revenue (fishing, golf, cycling)

 

Just Shimano's fishing, is 39% larger than ALL of Daiwa.  From a business point of view the expense of developing a DC reel is stupid for Daiwa given how pretty they're sitting now.  

Disagree. Daiwa is the one that innovates the most between the two, and that since the 90s. You can't say that a simple DC system is not worth it for them when they've just released a significantly more sophisticated electronic braking system that syncs to your phone. If they created the IMZ, Daiwa has no limits when it comes to new creations because the IMZ and its price are ridiculous.

[ATA]

oooooh that changes everything, Looking forward to see what's coming. The bait monkey now he knows I heard the news.

[Dan N]

Could not care less. Plenty of other good  reels on the market. Believe it, or not…

[Susky River Rat]

Are high end reels nice? 100% I enjoy them. I do not buy them to make up casting distance because I suck at casting. I buy them because the way they feel and cast to me. Proper casting mechanics matter more than a certain spool or the DC. They mask your own issues.
 

again I do have Metanuims I love them. I can’t say I cast than any better than my tranx151.  

[garroyo130]

15 hours ago, webertime said:

Shimano = $4,500,000,000 in revenue (25% is fishing, so $1,125,000,000)

 

Daiwa (Globeride) $808,000,000 in total revenue (fishing, golf, cycling)

 

Just Shimano's fishing, is 39% larger than ALL of Daiwa.  From a business point of view the expense of developing a DC reel is stupid for Daiwa given how pretty they're sitting now.  

 

Where did that Shimano number come from??? There is no way Shimano is doing more sales than Pure Fishing at 800M

 

Summary of Consolidated Financial Results for FY2023 (JGAAP)

 

Net sales from this segment decreased 4.6% from the previous year to 457 million yen and operating loss of 11 million yen was recorded, following an operating income of 1 million yen for the previous year

 

https://contents.xj-storage.jp/xcontents/AS02673/a63dd926/deae/4d3b/a670/f27350daf517/140120240207528856.pdf

[webertime]

6 hours ago, garroyo130 said:

 

Where did that Shimano number come from??? There is no way Shimano is doing more sales than Pure Fishing at 800M

 

Summary of Consolidated Financial Results for FY2023 (JGAAP)

 

Net sales from this segment decreased 4.6% from the previous year to 457 million yen and operating loss of 11 million yen was recorded, following an operating income of 1 million yen for the previous year

 

https://contents.xj-storage.jp/xcontents/AS02673/a63dd926/deae/4d3b/a670/f27350daf517/140120240207528856.pdf

It's several places on Google/Wikipedia