I broke off a Chad Shad yesterday on 20 lb Big Game, what do you think most likely caused the failure?

[Ohioguy25]

I had a 2-3 lb smallie grab the Chad and the line broke relatively easily. 20 lb Berkley Big Game mono, spooled on a Curado 200 XGK thrown on an IRod Genesis III Swimbait Jr.

 

Here are some details that may or may not be at play:

 

- Rods had been left outside overnight at 35-40 degree temps a few times lately. 
 

- Was using these speed clips that I’ve never had an issue with but I suppose could have potentially nicked the line

 

- Have yanked snags free with a decent amount of force occasionally.

 

I have been trying to make it a habit of retying every trip, as I noticed a couple trips ago the knot had come undone or broken I can’t remember (possibly from aforementioned cold exposure?) Line was relatively new, respooled a month or two ago.

 

Do you think it is more likely it broke or came untied? It seems incredibly strong, hard to imagine it just failing like that.  How does a knot fail, is there a stronger/better knot than a Palomar for 20 lb mono/swimbaits?
 

Any input would be greatly appreciated as it cost me $140, I would really like to avoid this heartbreak in the future 🙏🏼

[AlabamaSpothunter]

Did you examine the end of the line......you usually can tell pretty easily if your knot failed or if your line broke.    If the end of your line has a bit of pig tail in it, it's likely your knot failed.   If it looks perfectly clean and straight, it's likely your line just broke, more than likely at a place where there was a nick.  

 

With high dollar, heavy baits like Chad Shads, you really want to be downright obsessive about retying, and constantly rubbing your fingers up the first 10ft or so of line to constantly be checking for nicks.    

 

I go through line faster on my big swimbait setup than any other combo.    I'm often times cutting off several feet of line because I notice the smallest imperfection in the line.   

 

I lost a Chad Shad in January literally inches from the net.......and it was all my fault as the knot had failed.   I learned this by examining the end of the line as mentioned above.  

 

ETA:   If your casting motion on big glides isn't great, you can actually abrade the line through the act of casting I've found.   Something I still don't completely understand, but have observed it enough to know it's real and happening.   My guess is the bait's treble hooks somehow contact the first several feet of line upon casting if done the wrong way.  

[Ohioguy25]

55 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

Did you examine the end of the line......you usually can tell pretty easily if your knot failed or if your line broke.    If the end of your line has a bit of pig tail in it, it's likely your knot failed.   If it looks perfectly clean and straight, it's likely your line just broke, more than likely at a place where there was a nick.  

 

With high dollar, heavy baits like Chad Shads, you really want to be downright obsessive about retying, and constantly rubbing your fingers up the first 10ft or so of line to constantly be checking for nicks.    

 

I go through line faster on my big swimbait setup than any other combo.    I'm often times cutting off several feet of line because I notice the smallest imperfection in the line.   

 

I lost a Chad Shad in January literally inches from the net.......and it was all my fault as the knot had failed.   I learned this by examining the end of the line as mentioned above.  

 

ETA:   If your casting motion on big glides isn't great, you can actually abrade the line through the act of casting I've found.   Something I still don't completely understand, but have observed it enough to know it's real and happening.   My guess is the bait's treble hooks somehow contact the first several feet of line upon casting if done the wrong way.  

That makes sense, although I do believe it was pig tailed. How does a knot fail, is there a stronger/better knot than a Palomar for 20 lb mono/swimbaits?

[Hulkster]

I would check your guides for a possible flaw that may have caused a nick. 

 

I use 20 pound Sufix Siege with big swim baits tied with a palomar knot and its very hard to break, its probably just as strong as Big Game. 

 

Unless the knot was really faulty I think the line or knot was damaged somehow. 

 

A properly tied palomar with 20 pound Big Game should be like a cable to break IMO. 

[Ohioguy25]

28 minutes ago, Hulkster said:

I would check your guides for a possible flaw that may have caused a nick. 

 

I use 20 pound Sufix Siege with big swim baits tied with a palomar knot and its very hard to break, its probably just as strong as Big Game. 

 

Unless the knot was really faulty I think the line or knot was damaged somehow. 

 

A properly tied palomar with 20 pound Big Game should be like a cable to break IMO. 

Yes, and did you see where this happened not once but twice recently to me?

[WRB]

If you twisted the double line loop putting  the clip through that causes the line to cross over itself flatting the line when clinched tight resulting in knot failure.

Try testing the knot strength before casting.

Also be careful when stringing the line through the guides especially the tip guide goes through the rings and not the frame.

Tom

[GreenPig]

When casting chopping glides, I make alot of cast per hour, so I retie roughly every hour. I also start every trip with a fresh SDJ knot. If I catch a fish or pull hard in a snag, I retie. I fish 20 & 25 BG and 20,25, & 30 CXX. 

[Ohioguy25]

33 minutes ago, GreenPig said:

When casting chopping glides, I make alot of cast per hour, so I retie roughly every hour. I also start every trip with a fresh SDJ knot. If I catch a fish or pull hard in a snag, I retie. I fish 20 & 25 BG and 20,25, & 30 CXX. 

Thx, is SDJ stronger than Palomar?

[AlabamaSpothunter]

I can't say whether a SDJ knot is stronger or not, however I've made the switch over to using the SDJ knot on all my big baits like glides and A-Rigs.    It ties easier when using heavy lb test lines.  

 

The Palomar was a pita to tie on big baits.    I do however use the Palomar for a number of other techniques, so I really like that knot.    

[MediumMouthBass]

SDJ is meant for fishing for several hundred pound tuna.....

 

Its easy, simple, clean, and extremely strong.

 

I always used palomar knots, but broke off constantly. It has to be tied correctly, there are a few ways to mess it up that can do some damage to the line if done incorrectly.

 

And like what @AlabamaSpothunter said about the heavier line, absolute pain to tie the palomar....

[F14A-B]

Tactical bassin dude uses 80 pound braid and says he never ever loses them anymore. Idk, I don’t throw them but he said it (Matt) on one of his swimbait videos. 

[Ohioguy25]

2 hours ago, GreenPig said:

When casting chopping glides, I make alot of cast per hour, so I retie roughly every hour. I also start every trip with a fresh SDJ knot. If I catch a fish or pull hard in a snag, I retie. I fish 20 & 25 BG and 20,25, & 30 CXX. 

 

1 hour ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

I can't say whether a SDJ knot is stronger or not, however I've made the switch over to using the SDJ knot on all my big baits like glides and A-Rigs.    It ties easier when using heavy lb test lines.  

 

The Palomar was a pita to tie on big baits.    I do however use the Palomar for a number of other techniques, so I really like that knot.    

 

1 hour ago, MediumMouthBass said:

SDJ is meant for fishing for several hundred pound tuna.....

 

Its easy, simple, clean, and extremely strong.

 

I always used palomar knots, but broke off constantly. It has to be tied correctly, there are a few ways to mess it up that can do some damage to the line if done incorrectly.

 

And like what @AlabamaSpothunter said about the heavier line, absolute pain to tie the palomar....

Thank you, this makes perfect sense and it is now clear to me that this was my point of failure - the knot wasn’t properly cinched. 
 

I am going to dedicate myself to learning this knot, I guess my only remaining question is, I have seen this knot shines as a direct to lure knot - is it equally effective if tying to a clip? I find it not only much easier than tying to a big lure but also like the ability to quickly and easily switch between different swimbaits and A rigs. Thanks! Here are the clips I use:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B09FDT6CY8?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

[mcipinkie]

"I have been trying to make it a habit of retying every trip, as I noticed a couple trips ago the knot had come undone or broken I can’t remember (possibly from aforementioned cold exposure?) Line was relatively new, respooled a month or two ago."

 

Anyone but me  think think the OP has defined his issue.  Retying every trip won't get it.  Big Game is good line.  Palomar is good knot if tied correctly.

 

Regardless of knot or line used, if the OP is "trying" to retie every trip, he's is deep trouble.  Should be retying every hour or so and trying to spool new line every trip.

 

So to be an . . . hole, but  the truth is the truth.

[GreenPig]

Ohioguy25, the SDJ works great tied to a snap. On most of my big hard baits, I use Decoy Egg snaps. Once I install a snap, it's never removed from that bait.

[WRB]

Install the clip onto the lure then use the lures weight to assist tying the San Diego Jam knot. 
Tom

[MyKeyBe]

If I were fishing a $60.00 bait I would be checking the line, knot, and snap every couple of casts and retying at least every hour. I don't care how much stretch big game has, casting a larger bait like that has to shock/be hard on the knot and probably the snap. Might go with a heavier snap too if I noticed the one I was using was showing signs of opening up. Then again I don't fish baits I can't afford to lose so I don't use $60.00 baits. I could be way off on what I would do.

[VolFan]

You shouldn’t be using a clip for convenience. There is no convenience with bigger baits - you need to retie every hour or so or more if you’re pulling through rocks or bouncing that bait off much of anything, which you should be. I use 15 lb CXX on baits up to 3 or so ounces but I retie after every fish and every hour or so, more if I’m fishing around rocks or mussels or concrete. I would bet that your knot broke or it broke somewhere near the knot. That area takes a beating.

[10,000 lakes Bassin]

3 hours ago, F14A-B said:

Tactical bassin dude uses 80 pound braid and says he never ever loses them anymore. Idk, I don’t throw them but he said it (Matt) on one of his swimbait videos. 

He ties to 30lb mono leader although. 

[Ohioguy25]

2 hours ago, mcipinkie said:

"I have been trying to make it a habit of retying every trip, as I noticed a couple trips ago the knot had come undone or broken I can’t remember (possibly from aforementioned cold exposure?) Line was relatively new, respooled a month or two ago."

 

Anyone but me  think think the OP has defined his issue.  Retying every trip won't get it.  Big Game is good line.  Palomar is good knot if tied correctly.

 

Regardless of knot or line used, if the OP is "trying" to retie every trip, he's is deep trouble.  Should be retying every hour or so and trying to spool new line every trip.

 

So to be an . . . hole, but  the truth is the truth.

Wait what? Swimbait guys retie every hour, spooling new line every trip?? That’s crazy.

[WRB]

I used 25 Armilo for 4 years on 3 reels and never broke any swimbaits. The knot was SD jam knot tied direct no clip. Clips have small dia wire vs larger dia hook wire = stronger knot strength.

I always re tie before fishing and never leave Mono/FC knots tied on over night.

I re tie if I think the line or knot is weakened.

Tom

 

[Bass Rutten]

I’d use large diameter wire clips like below, or put a big ol split ring on that lure.

[Ohioguy25]

1 hour ago, Bass Rutten said:

I’d use large diameter wire clips like below, or put a big ol split ring on that lure.

Those are the exact ones I use

[VolFan]

I don’t respool every trip, but I do retie every hour or so when throwing big baits. That front couple feet take a lot of stress just from casting big baits, add rocks and abrasions and it’s cheap insurance. 

I’ll throw math in - say you fish a 1/4 oz bait on 10 lb test. Now you’re fishing a bait that is 12 times as heavy on line that is only 2 times the strength. There’s much more cumulative stress on the knot and the line outside the tip as you cast, as well as the angular stress on the line at the top guide as you cast. The weakest point in all of this? The knot.

[Ohioguy25]

5 hours ago, VolFan said:

I don’t respool every trip, but I do retie every hour or so when throwing big baits. That front couple feet take a lot of stress just from casting big baits, add rocks and abrasions and it’s cheap insurance. 

I’ll throw math in - say you fish a 1/4 oz bait on 10 lb test. Now you’re fishing a bait that is 12 times as heavy on line that is only 2 times the strength. There’s much more cumulative stress on the knot and the line outside the tip as you cast, as well as the angular stress on the line at the top guide as you cast. The weakest point in all of this? The knot.

Makes sense. And the SDJ knot protects from this significantly better?

[VolFan]

Maybe? I use the palomar and improved clinch and never had a knot problem that wasn’t my fault.