Do/should guides actually fish when you pay for a guided fishing trip?

[Recurve1]

A friend of mine got a guided fishing trip as a gift, a wading trip for river smallmouth.  He wants me to buy a trip so I can go with him.

 

It seems this guide fishes while you are paying him to guide you.  He does attend to your needs and does some teaching.

Is it common for guides to fish while you are paying them to guide you?

 

I am hesitant to pay a guy hundreds of dollars to fish when he should be teaching me about rigging, reading the currents, fish lies, drift depth and speed, etc.

 

Thanks

[TnRiver46]

If you’re hesitant, don’t do it 

 

some clients get mad when the guide fishes, others insist that the guide fishes. 
 

if it’s just wading , hop in and go fishing on your own 

[Jar11591]

I’ve never had a guide that fished while guiding. If I did, I’d probably ask to be returned to the dock. If we’re gonna fish like buddies in your boat, I’ll throw you gas money, but not a penny more. Guiding should be done professionally. The only “fishing” I think that is acceptable for a guide to do is a scenario where fish aren’t biting and they throw out a bait to see if they can get a bite, that way they can tell you what you may want to fish with. If they are fishing to catch fish, it’s no longer a professional relationship, so I won’t pay a professional rate. I’ll give the “buddy rate”, which is some gas money and that’s it. Having taken a dozen guided salmon and trout trips, and a few bass/walleye trips, I’m lucky I’ve never had a guide think it was acceptable for them to be fishing. Could you imagine if you bring your car to a mechanic, and the guy reclines the seat, smokes a cigarette, and takes a nap in your car, and then charges you for the 

privilege? That would be insane. I see it no differently than paying a guide to get you on fish, and then they kick back and drop a line to try to catch the fish you are paying them to catch yourself. 

[TnRiver46]

I worked as a guide for many years and stood there watching people flail around helplessly, several said “here you cast and show me how “

[Mike L]

I’ve never hired a guide but my son-in-law is a local salt water guide down here so I asked him. 
He said “I get paid to put them on fish”

 

 

 

 

Mike

[Goby]

Depends on the scenario...

 

I spent a fair amount of the last 20 years guiding, I never fished while guiding unless it was purely an effort to get them to do something properly and they needed to see how it was done...

 

I can't imagine hiring a guide to do a walk and wade Bass trip, that being said, if a guy can get hundreds of dollars a day to do walk and wade trips, more power to him. If he can do it and get to fish too, seems like he has it figured out LOL 

 

I have to ask, this guide charges hundreds of dollars, per person, per day? For walk in trips for Bass? Most guides accept up to, two anglers per guide trip. So if your buddy won a guide trip, but the guide wants "hundreds of dollars" for you to go too, something seems fishy here... 

 

This dude either is the greatest guide of all time, or your buddy is trying to get you to pay for the entire trip LOL 

[Tackleholic]

Twice I paid Guides so they could go fishing themselves.  They rigged up my friend and I with the same lure as on his rod, then they ran the trolling motor and made the first cast to every target.  I never hired or referred either of them again.  

[F14A-B]

And here I thought we were gonna talk rod guides.. 🤔

[dytmook]

Ended up on a perch charter on Erie once and the guide did fish some. We were supposed to smallmouth or walleye fish but there was an algae bloom so it had the lake a mess. He wanted us to get fish for sure first. We ended the day fishing for smallies for a bit. Not much luck. I didn't love him getting into the perch fishing, but it wasn't a ton or his main focus. 

[DaubsNU1]

Depends on the guide, location, etc. Good opportunity to expectations discuss prior to booking.

 

I have fished the Silver Water Wheel Lodge @ Lac Seul in Canada four times. It's an "American plan" full service, drive-in set up featuring trophy walleye, pike and smallies.

 

Guides run the boat and will do everything for you...set up rods, tie on lures / jigs, bait your hooks, net fish, show you the ropes, cook shore lunch, etc. They get all walks of life at this lodge...families, kids, old-timers, etc.

 

Service is top notch! Great fishing, excellent food.

 

Once our guides got us set up and catching fish, they would pick up a rod and fish as well...but the second anyone had a fish on, or a snag, or needed more bait, they would immediately drop their rod and attend to our needs. We didn't have any issues with this...and were pretty self sufficient...I really didn't need help putting a minnow on a jig : )

 

I have never hired a guide here in the states.

[looking45]

This subject should never come up on the water. If you’re going to hire a guide, talk to him/her beforehand to let them know what you expect. If they insist infishing and that’s not what you want,’find another guide. You’re the one paying, get what you pay for

[Pumpkin Lizard]

I've never hired a guide for bass fishing. But a guide fishing for any reason other that showing the client/sport what right looks like as a demonstration sounds incredibly unprofessional to me.  Most of the guides I know are trying to catch fish through their clients.  

 

I hired guides for fly fishing for trout. Never once saw the guide fish. When I was a new to fly fishing 20+ years ago I had guides make casts to demonstrate a technique. It was the smartest money I ever spent because it accelerated the learning curve bigtime.  

 

 

[Bankc]

I've only hired a guide a few times in my life.  And they all fished.  But they didn't do nearly as much fishing as we did.  After they got us on fish, and got our gear set up and all of that kind of stuff, when we got to the point where there wasn't really anything left for them to do, then they started fishing.  And they usually fished off to the other side of the boat or whatever, so as not to disturb our fishing.  So it was more of a kill time, feel less awkward than standing around type of thing than them trying to catch fish.  Which was completely fine with us. 

 

The job of a guide is to put you on fish.  It's not to be your sea-butler, and stand at attention in the corner of the boat and wait for you to bark demands.  Just because you paid for their time and wisdom, doesn't mean you own them.  So long as they put you on fish and allow you to have a fun and memorable trip, the rest is immaterial.  But on the flip side, if they're catching all of the fish and having all of the fun, then that's not what you're paying them for.  Like pretty much everything in life, there's a balance. 

[Scott F]

The first time I fished with a guide I was with a friend and we were on Rainy Lake in Minnesota fishing for walleye. I was in the front, my friend was in the middle and the guide was in the back. We were fishing a drop off it was about 5 feet deep under me and dropped off to about 20 feet under the guide. We were all fishing. Guess where all the walleyes were.  Exactly at 20 feet. I was getting skunked while the guide was getting one after another.  He never even attempted to reposition the boat so my friend and I had a chance to get some fish. First and last time I ever let the guide fish while I was paying. 

[Bluebasser86]

I’ve done some guiding and I usually do some fishing at the same time. I try to figure out if something is working better than what I gave whoever I’m guiding and switch them if something is getting more bites. Once the bite is figured out, it’s more instruction on where to cast and retrieve the bait and the layout of the area we’re on. Most every time I’ve guided, the people I’ve taken are doing well enough that they insist on me fishing also anyways.

[TnRiver46]

Just ask @Captain Phil, fishing guide is the worst job you could ever have 😂 

 

we called it adult babysitting 

 

everyone thinks you fish for a living then everyone thinks you shouldn’t fish 

 

how do you know how to put people on fish if you never cast ? 

[king fisher]

Many great fisherman can not be good fishing guides because they are terrible at helping other anglers catch fish.  A guides job is to do what ever they can to insure that you have the best possible day on the water   That usually translates in to what they can do to help you catch fish. It is your trip.  Your guide should do what you want them to.  If you want them to fish with you than of course it would be OK if they fished.  If they want you to use a certain technique you are not comfortable with, or otherwise don't like to use, than they can either teach you the technique, go to another location where another technique will work, or simply let you fish your way, but you will have to understand that your way may not be as productive as what your guide would like you to fish.

 

If while trying to teach you the technique that is working, they have to demonstrate how properly present the lure, or bait, what a bite feels like, and how or when to set the hook, than obviously they may need to fish in order to be an effective teacher.  Once you are able to replicate what they are doing, they should stop fishing.  Sometimes if you are struggling to learn a technique, a guide may have to fish simply to see if the technique will work if done properly.  This should only take a few casts, and they should be able to tell right away if the method is working in that location.  Many times it may be best to let the guide make the first  cast or two at a new location in order to determine if they want to spend any time there.   That does not mean they should pull up to a spot, cast at the only log, land a bass then leave, but waiting for the client to determine if the bass are at a new location can take more time than a guide may want to spend.  They may be able to make a couple casts and instantly be able to tell if the new location is worth spending any time at.  In this situation communication is key to help alleviate any misunderstandings.  When a location and technique is working for you they may want to try another presentation, while you are catching fish on the original method, and it would be wise for you to let them.  They may discover a more successful technique, or one that you have less difficulty mastering.    They generally should not continue to fish a method that has already been determined to be successful, or the same presentation that you are using.                                                                                                       

        When I am guiding the last thing I want to do is catch a fish on a technique that I know is working, or one that I don't think my client will be able to master in the short time I have to teach them.  I am always evaluating their skills, and trying to determine if there is another presentation, or location, where they can catch fish, with as little frustration as possible.  There is always another piece to a fishing puzzle, and that goes double if you have to put a fishing puzzle together for someone else.  If you want your guide to fish the same technique at the same time than that is OK, but only if you insist and don't be surprised if your guide still keeps switching baits.  It is generally in a guides DNA to constantly be experimenting, looking for something new to improve the clients day. A good guide knows they can catch fish, but what they want is for you to catch fish.

 

In general the only time a guide should fish is if by them fishing it will help you catch more fish, and or help you enjoy your day.

 

A good guide wears many hats.  They should be good fisherman, great teachers, excellent communicators, good listeners, story tellers, and over all fun people to be around.  Their only concern besides your safety should be that you have as enjoyable day as possible.  Most of the time that does not include the guide fishing

 

 

[TOXIC]

This question always makes me laugh.  Let me just say this after being a guide for 25 years.  If I didn’t fish and you didn’t catch any fish, you would accuse me of being a terrible guide.  99% of the time not catching fish falls squarely on your skills as an angler not my skill as a guide. I always had a saying, “I can take you to the fish but I can’t catch them for you”.  I also would say “I can take you to the fish but I can’t make them bite”.  I’ll qualify my comments to be for bass fishing on inland lakes.  Walleye, perch, crappie, trout, musky, panfish, etc., all have different types of guiding and different methods so broad brush statements about guides not fishing may be different.  I also had clients that wanted totally different trips.  Some wanted numbers, some wanted size, some wanted to learn the lake, some wanted fish patterns for an upcoming tournament, some wanted to learn new techniques, some wanted to learn how to run a boat and it’s functions, and some just wanted to tour the lake.  You need to communicate with a guide what your expectations are.  I’ve had clients tell me that if they didn’t catch a trophy/citation size bass, the trip would be a waste.  Refer back to my 2 quotes above and if they didn’t like it, they could get back in their vehicle and call it a day.  I can cast for you, I can set the hook for you and hand you the rod to reel them in or you can do it yourself.  Makes no difference to me. My job is to put you on the fish and position the boat so you can cast to those fish and if necessary, provide the gear and baits that allow you a fair shot at catching fish.  All the while providing you a safe environment to accomplish your goals for the trip.  Of course, there are trips bass fishing where the fish just won’t cooperate but as a guide I’ve never had a client not recognize I put out 200% effort.  
 

ps…I fish.😉

[TnRiver46]

^best answer 

[Swamp Girl]

As a free guide, I always put my "client" in the bow of my canoe and most of my time is spent positioning the canoe to make their casting easier, netting their fish, coaching, and scanning the water in case bass are rising. Like some of the professional guides who posted in this thread, I will cast different lures to determine what the bass want and if I catch a bass on a new lure, I immediately hand it to my "client."

 

Considering I charge nothing, a professional guide should do everything I do and more. I'd hire @king fisher in a New York nanosecond. 

[Pumpkin Lizard]

2 hours ago, king fisher said:

Many great fisherman can not be good fishing guides because they are terrible at helping other anglers catch fish.  A guides job is to do what ever they can to insure that you have the best possible day on the water   That usually translates in to what they can do to help you catch fish. It is your trip.  Your guide should do what you want them to.  If you want them to fish with you than of course it would be OK if they fished.  If they want you to use a certain technique you are not comfortable with, or otherwise don't like to use, than they can either teach you the technique, go to another location where another technique will work, or simply let you fish your way, but you will have to understand that your way may not be as productive as what your guide would like you to fish.

 

If while trying to teach you the technique that is working, they have to demonstrate how properly present the lure, or bait, what a bite feels like, and how or when to set the hook, than obviously they may need to fish in order to be an effective teacher.  Once you are able to replicate what they are doing, they should stop fishing.  Sometimes if you are struggling to learn a technique, a guide may have to fish simply to see if the technique will work if done properly.  This should only take a few casts, and they should be able to tell right away if the method is working in that location.  Many times it may be best to let the guide make the first  cast or two at a new location in order to determine if they want to spend any time there.   That does not mean they should pull up to a spot, cast at the only log, land a bass then leave, but waiting for the client to determine if the bass are at a new location can take more time than a guide may want to spend.  They may be able to make a couple casts and instantly be able to tell if the new location is worth spending any time at.  In this situation communication is key to help alleviate any misunderstandings.  When a location and technique is working for you they may want to try another presentation, while you are catching fish on the original method, and it would be wise for you to let them.  They may discover a more successful technique, or one that you have less difficulty mastering.    They generally should not continue to fish a method that has already been determined to be successful, or the same presentation that you are using.                                                                                                       

        When I am guiding the last thing I want to do is catch a fish on a technique that I know is working, or one that I don't think my client will be able to master in the short time I have to teach them.  I am always evaluating their skills, and trying to determine if there is another presentation, or location, where they can catch fish, with as little frustration as possible.  There is always another piece to a fishing puzzle, and that goes double if you have to put a fishing puzzle together for someone else.  If you want your guide to fish the same technique at the same time than that is OK, but only if you insist and don't be surprised if your guide still keeps switching baits.  It is generally in a guides DNA to constantly be experimenting, looking for something new to improve the clients day. A good guide knows they can catch fish, but what they want is for you to catch fish.

 

In general the only time a guide should fish is if by them fishing it will help you catch more fish, and or help you enjoy your day.

 

A good guide wears many hats.  They should be good fisherman, great teachers, excellent communicators, good listeners, story tellers, and over all fun people to be around.  Their only concern besides your safety should be that you have as enjoyable day as possible.  Most of the time that does not include the guide fishing

 

 

 

This is the correct answer.

[MN Fisher]

5 hours ago, DaubsNU1 said:

Once our guides got us set up and catching fish, they would pick up a rod and fish as well

This is exactly what Bridgette did when she guided me last year. I knew knots, lures, etc...she basically found the spots where the bass were, taught me a bit about yearly movements in our lake, and suggested lure types and presentations.

 

Both of us fished...and chatted...and I caught more fish that day than any other day I've been out.

[king fisher]

6 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

I worked as a guide for many years and stood there watching people flail around helplessly,

That is the name of the game.  If it were fun and games, they wouldn't call it work.  I have guided my entire adult life, and have seen anglers who's skill level was  negative 100 on on a scale of one to ten.   Some people don't only not learn, but try as hard as they can to get worse.

 

One time I had a lady fishing for silver salmon.  The stream was loaded with salmon, and you could catch one on almost every cast with a spinning rod.  She insisted on fly fishing.  A skilled fly caster could cast far enough to present a fly to a salmon without spooking it and catch a salmon on almost every cast.  An average angler could cast well enough to hook enough to keep their rod bent for most of the day.  A beginner fly angler if they progressed well, would be able to hook a few and if they were quick learners may catch even more

 

After trying all morning to get this particular anglers casting skill to the point she could catch a couple fish, I realized she was never going to catch a silver salmon on a fly rod in that river.  It was getting close to lunch and she was getting very frustrated, so I suggested she take a break, from fly casting, grab a spinning rod, and catch a fresh salmon for shore lunch.  She looked at me holding a spinning rod, like I was the devil with a pitchfork.  She told me she would never cheat and use such an sporting method of fishing.  I wanted to tell her, that with her skill level, dynamite thrown in an aquarium wouldn't be considered cheating.  She couldn't cast a fly 6 feet with a nine foot fly rod  but held my tongue and tried to figure a way to survive the afternoon.  I tried every spot on the river, from the shore, drifting the boat, the boat anchored, or me walking the boat slowly through a hole.  I tried every size, color, and type of fly I had.  I did my best to teach her to cast, but to avail.  At the end of the day she was not happy, it was my fault she didn't catch any salmon.  All the other guides clients landed multiple silvers, and most of them on fly rods.  She was sure I was the worst guide in camp, maybe the whole state.  

 

For the record I didn't fish that day.  I had to be careful not to even let the fly touch the water while holding on to a rod in fear that a salmon would hit the fly  while dangling in the water, knowing I would be accused of sore mouthing all of the fish depriving her of an opportunity to land her very own silver salmon.  I did offer to hook a salmon for her, and let her land it on her rod, but I got the devil with the pitchfork stare again, and decided to exercise my constitutional right to remain silent.

 

I got up the next morning welcomed the new guest while they unloaded from the plane, smiled and said lets go catch some salmon.  Guiding is not easy, it is lots of work, but the good days make it seem like a vacation, and the bad days at least make for good stories.  

[Swamp Girl]

@king fisher: That was a good story, king. Thanks! 

[RevoSEMIpro]

Bass, walleye, etc...guide should be fishing enough to get you on a pattern but keeping you in the prime real estate and putting the rod down once you're on fish steady.

 

Fishing musky where you're lucky to boat a legal fish in a day of fishing I would have a big issue with.