FG Knot concerns

[Ryan N]

I'm running 30lbs braid to 15lbs fluoro, is my fluoro too thin for the braid to grip onto? Whenever I watch FG knot videos, the fluoro they have is far thicker than what I have. Yesterday I got snagged and tried to pull it through but the fg failed. When tying, I did 14 wraps, 3 half hitch knots and a rosotta (I think?) finish.

[Functional]

I think they use heavier line to show on camera easier.

 

my thinnest combo so far has been 8lb floro to 15lb braid. I've gone up to 17lb floro and 30lb braid without issues. I usually err on the side of caution and do at least 20 wraps as tight as I can get before I cant keep my leader piece from distorting due to braid pressure when wrapping. I do 3 half hitches then cut the leader tag and then continue with 3 more half hitches just braid over braid. 

 

No pull outs or breaks yet. 

[MN Fisher]

^ I've gone as small as 6# Fluoro to 10# braid without issues. I finish the same as @Functional with 3, cut and 3

 

I do the same with all my leaders - 40# braid to 15# fluoro, 20# braid to 10# Fluoro and 15# braid to 8# Fluoro.

[bulldog1935]

easy, go to improved Allbright knot - only leader knot I ever use.  

This knot is PE#1 (25-lb) braid to 14-lb leader.  

 

The trick to tightening this knot, remember the direction you wrapped your loops.  After snugging all four knot leads together, partially tighten the braid tag end first, rolling the braid loops in the same direction you wrapped the loops - lightly take up slack in the braid standing line.  Before it's tight, take up the leader tag to move the leader bend close into the knot loops.  Finish tightening the braid tag while rolling the loops, and final tighten the standing lines.  

[Fishingmickey]

Have you coated the knot with UV or CA glue, Bulldog?

FM

[bulldog1935]

1 hour ago, Fishingmickey said:

Have you coated the knot with UV or CA glue, Bulldog?

FM

CA - Zap pink label.  

[newapti5]

2 hours ago, Ryan N said:

I did 14 wraps

 

I think 15 FC to 30 braid is fine, but you'll need to do 20 wraps minimum. I even do 25 wraps for slicker braids like Smackdown.

[garroyo130]

Make sure you are tightening by pulling the braid mainline and leader and not the half hitches. 

 

When i used half hitches i made the mistake of tightening those too much before pulling the mainline, and the knot would never seat right. Half hitches should just be there for decoration until the mainline is tightened. 

[Tim Kelly]

The most important step in tying an FG is, after you've made the wraps and done a half hitch, pulling the braid and the leader really really hard. You should see the braid change colour when it seats properly. After that, trim the fluoro, do a couple more half hitches and the Risutto(?) finish and you should be good. If the knot seats properly when you're pulling it, it should never slip. The half hitches are just to stop the knot unravelling and have no strength function. 

[jigheadworm]

5 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

easy, go to improved Allbright knot - only leader knot I ever use.  

This knot is PE#1 (25-lb) braid to 14-lb leader.  

 

The trick to tightening this knot, remember the direction you wrapped your loops.  After snugging all four knot leads together, partially tighten the braid tag end first, rolling the braid loops in the same direction you wrapped the loops - lightly take up slack in the braid standing line.  Before it's tight, take up the leader tag to move the leader bend close into the knot loops.  Finish tightening the braid tag while rolling the loops, and final tighten the standing lines.  

All i use can't remember the last time i had a failure.

[Jig Man]

I have never had the fg fail.  I do 15 wraps, one half hitch, serve the knot, 2 half hitches, cut the leader tag, 2 half hitches, rizzuto.

[bulldog1935]

the OP discussion, though, is about comparative line sizes - braid diameter 0.15 to 0.20 mm, 

tied to fluoro size 0.26 to 0.30 mm.  

For my 40-yr knot history, the diameter difference begs Allbright knot.  

 

This is what I'm most always fishing, fine braid for cast distance, and larger fluoro for abrasion and shock resistance.  

[redmeansdistortion]

I too run the improved Albright and have yet to have a knot failure.  I don't use glue either.  I love the improved Albright not just because it's strong, it's also super easy to tie whether you're bobbing around in a boat or having to tie a leader with cold hands in winter.  

[Ryan N]

Yeah, I forgot to cinch down the line after the first hitch knot. My bad everyone, false alarm. So what you do is grab the main line with one hand and the tag + leader on the other and pull as hard as you can to get that knot firm, this is what does the finger trap effect.

5 hours ago, newapti5 said:

 

I think 15 FC to 30 braid is fine, but you'll need to do 20 wraps minimum. I even do 25 wraps for slicker braids like Smackdown.

If there are too many wraps once you get to the cinch step, the earliest wrap won't be cinched at all. And if the knot is too long, it may get stuck on the guide sideways, seen it happen.

[shackman]

I use 30/40 braid with 15# leader with fg knot on casting reels for tx rig and jig and have never had a problem. When I used to Ty the Alberto with leader, I always blew the connection knot and had to Ty new leader everytime. I can break off 2/3 times with the fg and always still have a leader to ty on and get back to Fish’n. 

[Bass Rutten]

You should either use a small piece of dowel or some thick heavy duty gloves to wrap the braid around when cinching, braid and bare hands will not apply sufficient pressure. I do 3 half hitches before trimming the leader and cannot ever remember one failing.

[newapti5]

4 hours ago, Ryan N said:

If there are too many wraps once you get to the cinch step, the earliest wrap won't be cinched at all.

 

Yes, I noticed that as well, but not all the time. I'd say about ~30% of my FG knots with 20+ wraps will have some seemingly "loose" wraps at the beginning, and these are the knots that I didn't tie very well - could be the early wraps being too loose, or the first couple half-hitch knots being too tight. 

 

Nonetheless, I still believe that these "loose" wraps are crucial to the knot strength, especially during strong hooksets. After I'd fished the knot for awhile, especially after some big ones, I noticed those "loose" knots weren't loose anymore. They became cinched in normally, and helped maintain the knot strength. 

 

I think the YouTube channel Salt Strong did a test on FG knot wraps, and they also found that 20 wraps are the minimum to keep the knot strength at the proclaimed 90%+ of tensile strength.

 

For the matter of 20 wraps making the knot too long to pass the guides smoothly, TBH I've never had that issue. I mostly use 20~30lb braids and 12-15lb FC leader.

[Bass Rutten]

Ideally you don't want any loose wraps, or they should all tighten and change color when cinching, otherwise I cut and retie. I can't imagine any good coming from having your knot move under the shock of a hookset.

[Happybeerbuzz]

These are handy for cinching down the knot if you tie a lot of FG knots.  It might also be handy for breaking off straight braid snags.  I haven't needed to do that yet, but it stands to reason that it would be helpful.  

 

[Ryan N]

Update: My 15 wrap fg knot slid again, on a jig hook set.

I retied the knot with 20 wraps and cinched tightly wrapped around pliers. Contrary to what I said, all wraps seem to be hard and not loose, which is a good sign. Made the half hitches and finishing knot tighter than last time. I’ll keep you guys posted if anything happens.

[txchaser]

 

Hundreds of FG's at this point, although I don't use braid to leader much anymore. 

30lb braid to 15lb leader mostly. 

 

Ring above - Great 9.00 to spend for FG knot cinching. Or the dowels others mentioned.

 

I'll echo more wraps for slicker braid.  Really hard flouro leader can require some 'popping' in the original cinchdown to get it started on the bite. I usually use 22 or 24.

 

Also, tying the first two half hitches very very tight is important.

 

I watched a video from japan where they put a little mushroom head on the flouro leader, and I like it, so I do that now.

 

 

 

[VTFan]

I use 30 lb. braid to 20 lb. fluro on my spinning reels and use a fg knot with 20 wraps with a couple half hitches pulling them really tight.  Then pull the tag end and the mainline of the braid REALLY hard. Yes, as someone else said, you'll see the color of the braid change as it bites into the fluro. Once that's done I'll do a couple more half hitches, clip the fluro tag end and use the braid tag end to finish with a Rizutto (sp) finish. I don't retie often enough but so far using this method hasn't failed me....yet. Oh...and by all means use something to wrap the braid around when you pull hard. Braid will cut your fingers and hands. Just what works for me.

[Functional]

You are supposed to cinch down the wraps but dont pull too hard. You want to find the fine line of stopping just before distorting or stretching the floro leader. It doesnt recover like mono and youll end up with break offs at the knot. I pull but if the floro is curly or loopy after my pull I cut it off and do it again. 

 

This is my method of tying. The pressure from the rod tip lets you "custom set" the pressure. As i mentioned i keep it tight enough to just start making the floro go wavy (youll see when you use too much). Make sure your weave betwen wraps is tight.