Over The Top

[Donald Tyson]

I live in Eastern Pennsylvania and I fish a lot of lakes with heavy cover including lily pads. I've heard that you can fish right over the top of these pads with frogs and worms and other plastic lures. I've spent hours doing this and for years I have never gotten a hit, not over the pads, and never have I gotten a hit on a frog of any sort, not over pads and not over open water. And since I know that many of you do very well with frogs I can only assume that it's me that's doing something wrong and I would appreciate some help if you care to offer. I've also been dragging worms hooked Texas style over the lily pads but to no avail. I've never caught anything, nor gotten hits over the lily pads in five years of fishing.

 

I catch plenty but not over the pads. I keep hoping to have a bass or a monster pickerel charge right up through and grab my bait but they don't. I'm not content to only fish the front weed lines or open water. I want to catch them all, lol.

 

I fish relatively light gear as Arthritis keeps me from the heavy rods and reels. Punching and heavy drops hotting is out of the question. I only fish over the top. 

 

Could it be that the water is too hot in that upper area and that they're simply aren't any fish up there. 

 

My target species is large Pickerel,  Bass is the rewarding bycatch.

 

If a few of you could chit chat about this for a few posts I bet I could get "with it" quickly, I'm embarrassed to even ask..... But remember I'm limited to light gear.

[VTFan]

Ok, this is coming from a Bass fisherman and just my experience. I only recently started fishing a frog and it is over pads and pond scum mostly but I found that using braided line which has no stretch gives me better hooksets and when I set the hook I slam it home once I feel that first tension on the line. As for how I fish it, once I've made the cast I let the frog sit on the pads until the water has calmed and then slowly work it across the pads letting it stop between the pads for a few seconds. And something Bill Dance once said was, when working a frog across pads to stop the frog when it comes off the pads into open water because sometimes the fish will follow it underneath the pads but won't strike until it is in open water. You said you use light gear, I can't really comment on that as I use baitcast gear with 40 lb. Braided line. I would think light gear would not be enough but that is just my humble opinion.

Also, fish like shade and pads provide lots of shade so I would not give up on them.

[BayouSlide]

My first big bass came in the late seventies by dragging a black plastic worm on a Johnson's Silver Minnow over lily pads on the edge of a small Florida lake.

 

If you're not seeing any action, you may be fishing the wrong pads. Isolated pads adjacent to more open water may prove more productive than a huge field of pads.

 

Neither a bass or pike expert here, but sometimes fish can be elusive and it often takes more than one aspect of the environment (such as the presence of lilly pads) to hold fish.

[FishTank]

I fish a lake that is like this. Grass grows in the same area as the lily pads in early spring. As the temps rise, the lily pads take over. When they start to block out the sun, the grass dies. This leads to the fish having dead grass, warm water, and possibly lower oxygen levels from the decaying grass. All of that causes them to vacate the area. They sometimes can be found on the edges but otherwise they don't go near it.

 

I also have some arthritis in my hands and forearms.  I find a frog to be easy to cast but hard to work.  I have better luck with heavy jigs on braided line but you do need the right rod and reel to make life easier on the hands.

[Bankbeater]

There's not many pickerel around here, so I don't have a lot of experience with those   I catch a few bass on frogs each season, but frogs aren't my #1 choice for a topwater bait in the water that I fish.  Fishing in lily pads, I have better luck dragging a jig across the top of the pad and then letting it sink to the bottom after I pull it off the edge of the pad.

[Spankey]

I’m not big on fishing frogs but I don’t hesitate to fish Lilly pads. Worms and larger grubs weightless and with jig heads. I look for holes in the pads and never pass that up. 
I am not a frog expert or a Lilly pad expert. Never caught a PB out of it. But those explosive catches are nice. I would try to stick with it. Fish the edges hard also. A favorite edge of Lilly pad lures for me is a broken back Shad Rap. 

[PhishLI]

 

10 hours ago, Donald Tyson said:

I live in Eastern Pennsylvania and I fish a lot of lakes with heavy cover including lily pads. I've heard that you can fish right over the top of these pads with frogs and worms and other plastic lures. I've spent hours doing this and for years I have never gotten a hit, not over the pads, and never have I gotten a hit on a frog of any sort, not over pads and not over open water.

In fertile pad fields, bait fish are usually loaded up, so bass really don't need to feed up. Here, you'll need to penetrate the canopy of Lillies and you'll need heavier gear and line in order to get them out. In cases like the picture below where the pads are in-filled with coontail and milfoil, you'll need heavy gear even more.

 

In some lakes frogs are simply a low percentage play. My favorite local spot is one of those places. Occasionally I'll get them to eat one, but the juice simply isn't worth the squeeze.

 

 

[Donald Tyson]

On 8/16/2024 at 6:24 PM, Bankbeater said:

There's not many pickerel around here, so I don't have a lot of experience with those   I catch a few bass on frogs each season, but frogs aren't my #1 choice for a topwater bait in the water that I fish.  Fishing in lily pads, I have better luck dragging a jig across the top of the pad and then letting it sink to the bottom after I pull it off the edge of the pad.

Say maybe a 1/16 or 1/8 jig w/4" kieteck or similar. 

On 8/16/2024 at 6:55 PM, Spankey said:

I’m not big on fishing frogs but I don’t hesitate to fish Lilly pads. Worms and larger grubs weightless and with jig heads. I look for holes in the pads and never pass that up. 
I am not a frog expert or a Lilly pad expert. Never caught a PB out of it. But those explosive catches are nice. I would try to stick with it. Fish the edges hard also. A favorite edge of Lilly pad lures for me is a broken back Shad Rap. 

 

2 minutes ago, Donald Tyson said:

Say maybe a 1/16 or 1/8 jig w/4" kieteck or similar. 

I guess that is what is bothering me. In five yrs I've not had a single hit on worms, minnows and frogs drug across pads. I guess I ain't Matt Allen. My gear is not strong enough to punch . 

One of the main reasons I tried frogs was not necessarily because I thought I'd catch in higher numbers but because I want larger Pickerel and I've come to assume they are in there under that canopy of pads. But maybe not. 

[casts_by_fly]

On 8/16/2024 at 9:49 AM, Donald Tyson said:

I'm not content to only fish the front weed lines or open water. 

 

I fish relatively light gear as Arthritis keeps me from the heavy rods and reels.

 

But remember I'm limited to light gear.

 

You don't say how light of gear or how heavy of cover.  But I'll say that heavier cover and lighter tackle don't mix.  Throwing anything less than 14+ lb into heavier pads is a recipe for problems.  Even then I like heavier.  When one hits a lure that's under the surface more than 10' from the edge of the pads, they either dive down or turn sideways.  Either way, your line is now wrapped around a pad stem or more.  You either need to pull the fish back through the stems, pull your line through the stems (aka cut them), or pull yourself to the fish when they get hung.  14# might work for the first instance if you're careful and the fish is small.  You need a decent backbone rod to make that work also.  There is no 'playing him out' in thick cover.  A recent one hit a beaver and was < 5' from the edge of the pads.  I set the hook and he was immediately stuck in the pads.  I had to go in after him and uproot the pad stems manually to land him.  That was 20# big game and a big heavy rod.  Even then I was still worried about losing him.

 

Don't take a knife to a gunfight.

 

If you want to catch pickerel, fish a 4" fluke on either a weightless or lightly weighted hook on the outside edges.  Learn how to walk it underwater.  Give it a couple twitches and let it fall for a couple seconds.  Do it again.  You'll have pickerel all over it.

 

 

[Functional]

If the pads are too thick that your lure doesnt get contact with the water then I personally have had no luck. You need to drag your lure over some open areas to get a strike. If the pads are too thick to allow this then you have 3 other options.

1) punching which you said you cant do with your gear.

2) get right up in the pads, cast out and bring the lure INTO the pads from open water. paddle tail/fluke, spinnerbait

3) position against the pads and cast parallel with the pad edge. Frog, paddle tail/fluke, buzz bait, spinnerbait

 

the paddle tail/fluke can be weightless or as much weight as you need. 

 

This is from my experience taking week long trips in upstate NY to go for bass and pike in a lake very heavy with weeds and pads. 

 

If its a big field of pads then treat it like open water when looking for where to target. They will still gravitate to the laydown, rock, slight hump/depression, drop offs, etc. in big pad fields. 

[Donald Tyson]

2 hours ago, casts_by_fly said:

 

You don't say how light of gear or how heavy of cover.  But I'll say that heavier cover and lighter tackle don't mix.  Throwing anything less than 14+ lb into heavier pads is a recipe for problems.  Even then I like heavier.  When one hits a lure that's under the surface more than 10' from the edge of the pads, they either dive down or turn sideways.  Either way, your line is now wrapped around a pad stem or more.  You either need to pull the fish back through the stems, pull your line through the stems (aka cut them), or pull yourself to the fish when they get hung.  14# might work for the first instance if you're careful and the fish is small.  You need a decent backbone rod to make that work also.  There is no 'playing him out' in thick cover.  A recent one hit a beaver and was < 5' from the edge of the pads.  I set the hook and he was immediately stuck in the pads.  I had to go in after him and uproot the pad stems manually to land him.  That was 20# big game and a big heavy rod.  Even then I was still worried about losing him.

 

Don't take a knife to a gunfight.

 

If you want to catch pickerel, fish a 4" fluke on either a weightless or lightly weighted hook on the outside edges.  Learn how to walk it underwater.  Give it a couple twitches and let it fall for a couple seconds.  Do it again.  You'll have pickerel all over it.

 

 

Yeah I do all that with light line and gear. I only hook up along the pads and never over. The pads have plenty of spaces in btw. I catch the Lions share of the pickerel on 4" Keiteck or 5" Zoom Pdltails. My light gear is Spincast and Baitcast as I can't use a Spinning reel for health reasons. hand strength won't allow me to use heavy rods for long. I've gotten or am getting better at hooking these. I guess Pads aren't for me and that I'll stick with what I'm good at. I also use some Vintage gear because I really enjoy it. Never lost a fish due to weeds outside of pads. By the way, I use 10, 14 and 20 lb Advance or Siege/Elite. I was using Sufix pro Braid but I'm so new to bait casters that it is still not unusual to have to cut off. It gets expensive. I almost never have to cut off Advance but I don't mind as much as it costs somewhat less. On the Spincast Reels
I use modern grease/oil/line, they have excellent drags and are not your old 202's. My inability to handle repetitive casting with a heavier pole is what keeps me in the light weight gear category. Plus I love the finesse arena. 

[BassinCNY]

A couple of weeks ago I decided that I was sick of the pickerel and pike messing up my pad crashers and decided to switch to a toad. I had an old bag of pearl humpin toads in my lures that didn't work too well bin and decided to give them a try. They've worked better than expected and won't be going back in the bin. Mostly for bass though. I've gotten a few pickerel but no big ones. I have had a couple bitten off though so they were probably bigger ones. I rig them on the standard wire 3/0 Gamakatsu ewgs. I'm not fishing very thick pads though.

[Donald Tyson]

I've only caught in th lanes and outside the weed line. Never while slowly pulling over the top.

 

I may sound negative but I'm having a blast. Just want to up my game. 

[padlin]

Ditto,I’ve not caught when dragging on weeds, I do however get hits as soon as the lure comes off the weeds and sinks a little is an opening of some sort. I might drag the 1st 3’ as long as there are open edges to drag to.

 

i use MH with 20 or 30 lb but would like to pick up a heavy, once they get wrapped around the weeds I can’t do much with a MH, especially in a canoe.

 

the only hits I’ve had on a frog are in open water early am, I give up on them pretty quick.

[casts_by_fly]

24 minutes ago, Donald Tyson said:

I've only caught in th lanes and outside the weed line. Never while slowly pulling over the top.

 

I may sound negative but I'm having a blast. Just want to up my game. 

 

If that's the level of pads you're talking about then that's not what i'd call heavy cover.  Those are largely dollar spot pads and lots of space between most of it.  I'll try to shoot you a picture later after I fish tonight.  What you're showing there is mostly loose open cover.  Based on that, I wouldn't even bother targetting pickerel deeper into the pads.  They will come out from the middles of those bigger patches to hit something good on the edge.

 

That's open enough to throw a 1' wake crank or a spinnerbait through it.  That's where I'd start if you want pickerel.  They hit spinnerbaits like they are owed money.  I swear the bait monkey and pickerel have a deal with each other for spinnerbaits and keitechs.  

[MN Fisher]

2 minutes ago, casts_by_fly said:

If that's the level of pads you're talking about then that's not what i'd call heavy cover. 

Ya - that's not heavy cover - I'd call that moderate.

 

This is closer to heavy, but I've seen it even more full at times.

[Donald Tyson]

1 hour ago, casts_by_fly said:

 

If that's the level of pads you're talking about then that's not what i'd call heavy cover.  Those are largely dollar spot pads and lots of space between most of it.  I'll try to shoot you a picture later after I fish tonight.  What you're showing there is mostly loose open cover.  Based on that, I wouldn't even bother targetting pickerel deeper into the pads.  They will come out from the middles of those bigger patches to hit something good on the edge.

 

That's open enough to throw a 1' wake crank or a spinnerbait through it.  That's where I'd start if you want pickerel.  They hit spinnerbaits like they are owed money.  I swear the bait monkey and pickerel have a deal with each other for spinnerbaits and keitechs.  

That’s what I do. Spinner baits, Texas style minnows and minnows on jig heads. Helps me get more Pickerel  and not so many small bass. 

[Spankey]

2 hours ago, Donald Tyson said:

I've only caught in th lanes and outside the weed line. Never while slowly pulling over the top.

 

I may sound negative but I'm having a blast. Just want to up my game. 

I like what I see there. Those open areas are nice. I’d be back there at before sun up in stealth mode as quiet as I can. I’d be throwing Pop-R’s, Skitter Pops, Skitter Props, Chug Bugs or something like that. Especially if you have a lot of holes and open space to work a bait. Fish that open stuff first. Than I’d double back and throw a worm in those plants. Especially after the sun has come up. The frogs I do fish along with some of the grubs and worms in that heavy stuff I do it with a bait caster and braid. You get a bite back there 6# test might not get it done. Not saying it can’t. Majority of the time I’m fishing lite. I’ve never caught a monster in that stuff but found a heavier set helps get them out of there. I fish it like I’m after that monster bass, I am after that monster bass. 
 

I like that you want to up your game. I try to give them a different look also. Try something new for myself also. Every time I go out I want to break a PB. 

[Catt]

This is heavy cover

 

[RAM3139]

For whatever its worth, in the lakes I fish that have both pickerel and bass, I've caught plenty of bass on frogs on top of the heavy stuff, but never had a pickerel come up through for it.  They have only ever hit it after it gets to open water.

 

Not sure if that is typical, but you may not be missing out on as many pickerel as you think by not fishing in the pads.

[MN Fisher]

^ Ya, @Catt lives where heavy cover gets real and what I get up here is 'open water' to him.

[Mobasser]

Pad fields can be deceiving. There could be a fifty foot wide pad field, but only a small section will hold fish. The part that does hold fish is because there's something different in that area. A small dropoff, some rocks, a sunken log that you can't see from above etc. It's the structure and cover below the pads that makes a difference. This is where the fish will hang out.

[Catt]

One thing I have learned is if they ain't eating it ya can't force feed em.

 

Three parts of the water column are topwater, mid-depth, & bottom 

 

Topwater has been eliminated 

[Mobasser]

2 minutes ago, Catt said:

One thing I have learned is if they ain't eating it ya can't force feed em.

 

Three parts of the water column are topwater, mid-depth, & bottom 

 

Topwater has been eliminated 

Catt, I agree. When they won't hit on top after numerous cast, it becomes a waste of time. At that point fish bottom baits or mid depth baits.Its a fact. We can't force feed bass under any conditions.

[Catt]

18 hours ago, Donald Tyson said:

I've only caught in th lanes and outside the weed line. Never while slowly pulling over the top.

 

I may sound negative but I'm having a blast. Just want to up my game. 

 

While we have plenty heavy cover, there's alot of ares similar to yours.

 

Like you said we target the boat lanes & the weedless. 

 

There's a wide selection of lures the work in these conditions. Make minor adjustments to your lures. Instead of a Fluke throw a Rage Swimmer or Keitech Swing Impact. I wouldn't be afraid of targeting a 2-3' into the vegetation.