Issues with spool overrun

[Smirak]

So, a while back, I bought a 13 fishing reel at TW on clearance for like $30. I have it on a 13 fishing fate black that was on clearance as well. Anyway, the rod is rated for 3/8 - 1 1/2 oz. It is spooled with suffix mono. Was trying to throw a Vega frog (5/8 oz) the other day. Pitching was fine, but casting is not. I have the spool tension tight, no play to play. I have the brakes on 10. It appears that the spool overrun happens in the backend of the cast. From what I understand, backlash in the last part is due to braking. 
 

Any advice?

[bulldog1935]

No, end-of-cast backlash is due to not using your thumb to stop the spool.  

You should be using thumb on the fall to adjust the final elevation of your cast accuracy, and to stop the spool when the lure hits the water.  

Brakes are for preventing start-up backlash (centrifugal or non-linear mag) - start-up backlash is spool overshoot - and wind backlash, which occurs just before the hump at mid-cast (linear mag brake).  

[Smirak]

Oh, I know about thumbing. All I throw is baitcasters. This was overrunning even with thumb pressure. The backlash wasn’t at the end meaning I didn’t backlash because I failed to thumb it. 

[bulldog1935]

Generally, heavy lures don't get wind backlash, but the jerk of heavy lures on the spool increases start-up backlash.  

Mid-cast wind backlash isn't exactly named properly.  

While wind can be a factor casting light or "parachute" lures, the backlash is caused by gravity slowing the lure while it's still traveling uphill.  

Once the lure is over the hump and on the fall, gravity makes backlash impossible - unless your timing on thumbing the spool at end-of-cast is too late.  This late reaction is too typical, even when you antcipate it - I find myself occasionally lifting the rod to take a loose finish-cast loop off the spool.  

If you're having a consistent problem, and believe it's because of the weight, tighten spool tension and live with shorter casts.  

[Bazoo]

"I find myself occasionally lifting the rod to take a loose finish-cast loop off the spool"

 

I do this too. Very minor loop, I do it instinctively. Thank you for articulating it so well.

[Bankc]

That rod is too heavy for that lure.  So you're not getting good casting distance, which is causing you to cast too hard, which is generating the over runs. 

Yeah, I know the rod is rated to go down to 3/8 oz.  But a rod that's rated from 3/8 to 1-1/2 oz. tells me that the rod's rating is overly generous.  I've owned a few rods that have said they could do that.  But none of them actually could.  At least not well.  It's probably more like a 1/2 to 5/8 oz. minimum and a 1 to 1-1/4 oz. maximum.  I've found overly generous rods to be better at the top end than the bottom. 

 

That being said, you can compensate for the issue by making some other adjustments.  It'll cost you distance, but that's the price you pay.  If you have the brakes already set pretty high, then spool tension is the next obvious thing to try.  And obviously, getting good with your thumb is always a possibility. 

 

If you're good with your thumb, you won't need any brakes or spool tension.  You become the brakes.  But, you'll have to learn to control the spool with your thumb throughout the whole cast, not just at the end like we typically do with modern reels.  I have a few older reels that I have to cast like this because they lack brakes.  So when I cast, I release my thumb from the spool and then immediately and lightly place it back on the spool, modulating pressure to keep the spool's speed in check the whole distance.  You have to find that balance where you're not slowing down the lure too much, but also not letting the reel run faster than the lure.  And that balance point is constantly changing.  Then, you slowly back off the pressure until your thumb is completely off the spool near the end, and then reapply full thumb pressure just before it hits the water to stop it.  It takes a lot of experience and skill to get good at, and I'm not great at it.  But, having that skill allows you to cast virtually anything in any condition.  And it comes in especially handy today when you're using a rod that's not built for your lure, having to deal with predictable wind gusts, or any other situation where the circumstances are less than ideal. 

[Fishingmickey]

Smirak,  Are you having problems with the accuracy of your casts? Like missing to one side? If so, this is for me anyways that the rod is not loading up or being loaded up properly on the back portion of the cast.  Not "loading" the rod properly equates to poor performance casting, accuracy, backlashing, etc. etc.

     Try tying on a 1/2 oz rattle trap or something that is in that 1/2 to 3/4 oz range. Do some experimental casting with your combo.

     Then go catch some of those Guntersville monsters!

FM

[bulldog1935]

@Fishingmickey - it's called Windage Swing when the rod doesn't load with the light weight you're casting.  Rather than going where you aim, the cast goes off in the same direction the rod is swinging. 

This is actually how you measure the low-end weight your rod is capable of casting - does the weight go where you aim, or does it keep going off to the side.  

Still, rod loading issues don't seem to be related to OP's initial complaint about end-of-cast backlash.  

[Smirak]

Thank you for all the replies so far. 40 yrs ago, you had to keep your thumb pressure on. That’s how I cast, cast and immediately put my thumb on spool and regulate as @Bankc mentioned earlier. Heck, I even use thumb pressure on DC reels. It’s just what I’m used to. 

 

So update. The last time I cast with the mono (suffix elite 20lb), it backlashed pretty good, so I just cut and respooled with power pro. Weirdest thing is I can cast it a mile now? Should I try to respool with the mono and see if it was just a screw up in spooling the mono the first time? Like maybe it was real loose?

[Bigbox99]

56 minutes ago, Smirak said:

Thank you for all the replies so far. 40 yrs ago, you had to keep your thumb pressure on. That’s how I cast, cast and immediately put my thumb on spool and regulate as @Bankc mentioned earlier. Heck, I even use thumb pressure on DC reels. It’s just what I’m used to. 

 

So update. The last time I cast with the mono (suffix elite 20lb), it backlashed pretty good, so I just cut and respooled with power pro. Weirdest thing is I can cast it a mile now? Should I try to respool with the mono and see if it was just a screw up in spooling the mono the first time? Like maybe it was real loose?

I had the same experience with a Piscifun Alloy M with 15# basix.  The narrow level wind placed close to the spool and weak magnetic brakes didn't play nice with the stiff slinky like line trying to make its way off the reel.  Things like T Wings and cone shaped level winds placed far from the spool really do have an impact.  My solution was the same as yours and I switched to braid.  Braid is flexible enough to easily snake its way out of a narrow level wind at sharp angles on a power cast. 

Also, you could have has a spooling issue if you spooled the mono on backwards.   If you're been braid only until this point you may not have been aware that this is a thing.

[Smirak]

1 hour ago, Bigbox99 said:

Also, you could have has a spooling issue if you spooled the mono on backwards.   If you're been braid only until this point you may not have been aware that this is a thing.

You know, I’ve been fishing baitcasters for like 40 yrs. I never knew that there was a backwards? I run my line through the line guide, go under the spool that way. Should I be going over the spool?

[Bigbox99]

47 minutes ago, Smirak said:

You know, I’ve been fishing baitcasters for like 40 yrs. I never knew that there was a backwards? I run my line through the line guide, go under the spool that way. Should I be going over the spool?

It's the direction the line comes off the filler spool.  You want the filler spool of line and the reel facing each other and the line to come off the top of the filler spool and onto the reel's spool.  Think of it like an old cassette tape.  You want to wind on line in the same direction as it was on the spool.  For a reel it only goes on one way so the filler spool should be orientated to match.  Failing to do this will result in line being wound on backwards and wanting to jump off the spool from the memory it has from the filler spool.  Even if it's on wrong if you just wait a week or so it will take the memory of the reels spool anyways and behave itself.  

[Smirak]

Ok, no worries there. I’m spooling correctly. 

[Bazoo]

Interesting stuff being shared here, thanks all. And thank you again @bulldog1935

[GRiver]

17 hours ago, Bigbox99 said:

Also, you could have has a spooling issue if you spooled the mono on backwards. 

I can vouch for this^, I have always spooled the way it came off the factory spool, that’s the way I was taught.

One time I did it wrong, didn’t notice it until I was finished. I figured I could put conditioner on it for a while.

That reel just wasn’t right, it seemed to poof up at the end, line never seem tight on the reel, didn’t cast right ether.

Wether it was subconscious, that I knew it was spooled backwards or what. I replaced the line and all was good.