I'm so split between the Shimano Stradic FL and Shimano Vanford F

[F14A-B]

17 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

@T2DM - when you love something...

I love my counter-balanced and double handles in finesse fishing - they keep the rotor from turning under gravity acting on the offset weight of the bail.  Big fish sip tiny winter bait - they don't spend a lot of energy to eat it, because they don't get much back.  (Susie's catch on XUL)

Since my small-frame reels are in salt finesse niche, they get even more attention - MTCW dual-bearing titanium line rollers.  And MTCW TD drag knob (only made for small frame), which replaces the plastic drag knob with all-metal, and replaces the elastic strain of the plastic knob with the rate of an internal metal spring - comes with 2 springs for 2 different spring rates and drag ranges.  With the plastic knob, the entire drag range is in 1/2 turn of the knob - the metal TD drag range is spread over 2-1/2 turns, and there are twice as many click-detentes.  The spring also lets you push the front of the drag knob to add finger drag.  (Susie's fish made two 50-yd runs)

 

 

This gets said A Lot on the forum, and matching rod lure range with the lure weight is important.  

But from building and tuning reels, mixing and matching rods, lines and bearings on the casting range, you get more variation from the reel set up than from the rod choice, and surprisingly, that often includes rod length - I can think of two 6-1/2' rods that will cast light end toe-to-toe with some 8+' rods of the same lure rating.  The properties that make a rod cast well often aren't the same properties that make the rod fish well in many niches, also making the reel set-up important for optimizing cast distance.  

A spinning reel with good line management, matched spool depth and line, lets you load the spool to the line hook, and will cast into next week. 

That drag conversion is like my OEM 5000 Saragosa. Same exact principle. Definitely an awesome drag system, plus a very loud and powerful clicker.. 

[Susky River Rat]

@alonerankin2 I didn’t say I would do it or recommended it. It’s just like seeing a glass of beer filled to the brim is all I’m saying. 

[bulldog1935]

I promise you it's not over-spooled - none of my reels has ever slipped a multiple line loop on max-distance finesse shore fishing.  

The spool is full when my fingernail slides flush from the bottom of the line clip groove.  Honestly, this is why you want these reels - to get line management this accurate (and unequaled).  

 

[F14A-B]

4 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

I promise you it's not over-spooled - none of my reels has ever slipped a multiple line loop on max-distance finesse shore fishing.  

 

Wasn't meant to be an insult, sorry if it came across that way. If it works then that’s all that matters. 

[bulldog1935]

32 minutes ago, alonerankin2 said:

That drag conversion is like my OEM 5000 Saragosa. Same exact principle. Definitely an awesome drag system, plus a very loud and powerful clicker.. 

 

MTCW again only makes TD drag cap for small frame, both Shimano and Daiwa.  

But if they offered them for medium and large frame, I'd have them there, also.  

[GetFishorDieTryin]

On 8/2/2024 at 9:15 AM, casts_by_fly said:

He went 4k size vanford, I went 3k sized stradic (FL, previous model to current).  His is on a 7' zodias M, mine is on the zodias 6'9" ML.  Both rods have carbon monocoque rear grips which are really light.  I had intended to use a 1k size reel and it was no where close to balancing it.  The 3k did at an ounce or so heavier and feels great in hand.  Its a much better balanced package (size, weight, swingweight, etc).  His 7' with the vanford feels tip heavy for me and how I hold the rod.  His reel is also an ounce and a half lighter I think.  That's great for him because heavier setups tax his elbow and I think he holds the rod further up the grip.

I apologize, I meant to say 4k Vanford not 3k, comparing the weight of the reels you mentioned in the post 3k stradic to 4k vanford.

You said he got a 4k Vanford and you got a 3k stradic and said that the Vanford.  The FL is the same weight for pracital reasons with a .1 difference, maybe.  The 3k FM is about 8 which is roughly what its been since FK and my Vanford 4k is 7.7 without line and I think they claim 7.6 but its close enough.  With line, especially with only 80 or 90yds of PE on top of mono the weight is very close to a 3k stradic.    

Like I had said, you have to compare like size reels to get a significant weight reduction.  I completly agree, 1oz is a huge amount of weight on a light setup especially at that 7-8oz mark.  I find that when a reel is under 7oz, I feel like it makes the outfit noticeably more sensitive, so long its balanced.  

What surprises me is that Zodias was made to pair with Stradic ci4/Vanford, aesthetically anyway, with the black and lipstick red.  Even if they weren't Stradic is a reel that I would think have to balance as its their most popular mid PP spinner.  With the fuji k guides on the 7' M being designed for 2500 and 3k spool sizes. I find it bewildering that they are too light to balance well at that 7.5-8oz weight.

 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Heads up if you service your own reels, the new shimano AR assembly is no longer self contained. If you’re not careful the pins and springs will fall out all over the place. If you’re lucky enough to not lose anything, putting the pins and springs back in the labyrinth and getting the assembly back on the reel without spilling them out will baffle, bewilder, frustrate and infuriate even the most patient among us if you can even figure it out. I love shimano spinners but won’t buy another one until they correct this engineering nightmare. 

[F14A-B]

3 hours ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

Heads up if you service your own reels, the new shimano AR assembly is no longer self contained. If you’re not careful the pins and springs will fall out all over the place. If you’re lucky enough to not lose anything, putting the pins and springs back in the labyrinth and getting the assembly back on the reel without spilling them out will baffle, bewilder, frustrate and infuriate even the most patient among us if you can even figure it out. I love shimano spinners but won’t buy another one until they correct this engineering nightmare. 

Which reels host this? 

[bulldog1935]

answering out of turn, new A/R clutch begins with '18 Stella, '19 Stradic ... '21 Sustain and continues on all newer worm drive series.  

Discussed on this famous Stradic take-down.  

It's beefed-up, it's better sealed, doesn't need to be removed to lube the gears.  

It's also here to stay.  

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

13 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

answering out of turn, new A/R clutch begins with '18 Stella, '19 Stradic ... '21 Sustain and continues on all newer worm drive series.  

Discussed on this famous Stradic take-down.  

It's beefed-up, it's better sealed, doesn't need to be removed to lube the gears.  

It's also here to stay.  

There’s nothing beefed up about it. While a nice addition, the non critical same rubber cap would fit over the original style. You never had to remove the AR to grease gears and still have to service the pinion and supporting bearings. Another case of fixing what ain’t broke. They already had the best spinning reel AR by a mile. You’re probably right about it sticking around but I’m not a fan. 

[bulldog1935]

X-Protect - X-Protect is a three-lipped rubber seal system which is designed to keep low pressure water out of the reel. The grease between the second and third lips resists high pressure water. Besides the rubber seals, a labyrinth construction is added in order to make it waterproof for a much longer time. All of this does not affect the smooth rotor rotation or (sic) roller (bearing) performance. 

https://reelcatalog.com/shimano-reel-technologies-dascription

The rubber seal is not a simple rubber seal, but part of a labyrinth seal. 

As far as the design of the A/R roller bearing assembly, it improves roller element alignment under spindle deflection, to prevent slippage under higher spindle/rotor deflection - that is, under higher fish loads - higher drag loads.  It also improves wear resistance by reducing roller element contact stress under radial loads - wear can cause eventual A/R failure.