I like my baitcaster, but…

[bgaviator]

So I got my first baitcaster a few months ago…a Daiwa Zillion from Japan. It’s nice and all. I love how far it can cast and I love how quickly I can reel back in. I get frustrated with the backlashes though that seemingly come out of nowhere. I can toss the lure the same way 10 times and for whatever reason one just backlashes. I’m getting pretty good at picking them out quickly though. I can’t seem to be able to set the brakes lower than about an 8 setting out of 20 though or else I’m almost guaranteed to get a bad backlash. 
 

I must say, I just recently got my first spinning reel too for an ultralight setup. It’s a Daiwa Revros LT 1000. This thing casts far!  Pretty much as far as the baitcast. I’m really enjoying the spinning reel and not having to worry about a backlash. May have to pick up some bigger size spinning reels and put them on a medium or MH rod. 

[Bazoo]

Sounds like you need a lot more practice. If you're getting backlashes, you're not using enough thumb pressure... probably at the end. No shame in turning the brakes up as needed either.

 

I still practice in the yard during the times of the year I don't fish nearly daily. I still backlash sometimes, but very rarely in a manner that isn't easily cleared.

 

I would rather have accuracy at short/moderate range, than distance any day.

[bgaviator]

27 minutes ago, Bazoo said:

Sounds like you need a lot more practice. If you're getting backlashes, you're not using enough thumb pressure... probably at the end. No shame in turning the brakes up as needed either.

 

I still practice in the yard during the times of the year I don't fish nearly daily. I still backlash sometimes, but very rarely in a manner that isn't easily cleared.

 

I would rather have accuracy at short/moderate range, than distance any day.

I thought you didn’t really thumb until the end?  My Zillion is supposed to have tech I thought that helped prevent backlashes. But it doesn’t really seem to be the case. 

[GRiver]

I agree with @Bazoomaybe more practice, I ride my thumb close to the spool when I feel a blowup starting to happen, I try and stop it. I never really bomb lures out there much, I’m sure to wad one up, when I really going for distance.

I like a short to medium cast with accuracy than an all out swing for the fence type of thing.

Then I fish a lot of plastics in close quarters verses open water. 

@bgaviator what kind of bait do you use mostly and how heavy  is it.

[Koz]

Your spool is spinning faster than the line and the bait is moving. Increase your tension knob slightly (or maybe more than slightly).

 

Hold the rod tip up at a steep angle, then hit the release button. Does the bait fall quickly to the ground or does it fall slowly? 

 

Adjust the tension knob so it moves very slowly and see if you still backlash. Technically, you don't want it too move too slow. It should have a moderate, steady fall. But if you ratchet up the tension and stop backlashing you know the issue is that your spool was moving faster than the line and the bait.

[bulldog1935]

4 hours ago, bgaviator said:

 I can’t seem to be able to set the brakes lower than about an 8 setting out of 20 though or else I’m almost guaranteed to get a bad backlash. 

Then don't do that.  

Cast with the lightest thing you're ever going to cast, and set your mag dial to prevent mid-cast backlash.  You're done - you'll never get another mid-cast backlash.  

OK, if you're casting into the wind, add 2 notches on the mag dial.  

 

If you're getting start-up backlash, it's because you're snapping your wrist and jerking the spool - don't do that either - you want smooth acceleration and follow-through.  Spinning tackle rewards wrist-snap jerk with extra distance.  On a baitcaster, wrist-snap is start-up backlash - on a fly rod, wrist snap is a tailing loop that crashes the line into the rod.  

 

^ This Means Something ^

 

Make sure you don't F with the spool tension knob, aka Zero Adjust - its purpose is to set Zero side play and Zero end tension on the spool. 

You do not adjust a Daiwa Zillion the same way you adjust a 1980 Lew's - ignore the people who tell you to.  

 

 

I have 2 fixed-inductor spools that the inductors are so light, I run them at 12 to 14.  And they both cast 2 g past 130'

 

v horse hockey v

[dave]

And just when you've been using it for 30 years and completely feel that you "get it",  you'll get a backlash and the mystery continues...

[Craig P]

Check the specs of the reel and make sure your line diameter is within the specifications. This is very important.

[king fisher]

One of the most impressive skills in bass fishing is being able to remove a backlash like a pro.  The only way to get proficient at such a revered skill, is lots of practice.  Backing the brake off of a bait caster for no good reason, is a rite of passage for all serious bass anglers.  Nothing like the feeling of being on the very edge of a total blowup, just one notch away from complete free spool, and launching a perfect cast 20 feet up the bank, trying to catch that elusive air breathing four legged walking black bass.  That one extra long cast is worth picking out a dozen back lashes.

[BrianMDTX]

I am not a baitcaster snob. I have several spinning rigs that I use for various presentations. But it’s hard to beat the precision casting of a  baitcaster, especially in laying the bait down accurately and quietly. 
 

It takes more practice to gain proficiency. But it’s well worth the effort 

[bgaviator]

2 hours ago, Koz said:

Your spool is spinning faster than the line and the bait is moving. Increase your tension knob slightly (or maybe more than slightly).

 

Hold the rod tip up at a steep angle, then hit the release button. Does the bait fall quickly to the ground or does it fall slowly? 

 

Adjust the tension knob so it moves very slowly and see if you still backlash. Technically, you don't want it too move too slow. It should have a moderate, steady fall. But if you ratchet up the tension and stop backlashing you know the issue is that your spool was moving faster than the line and the bait.

The zillion you’re not supposed to mess with the tension knob between bait changes is my understanding. 

1 hour ago, bulldog1935 said:

Then don't do that.  

Cast with the lightest thing you're ever going to cast, and set your mag dial to prevent mid-cast backlash.  You're done - you'll never get another mid-cast backlash.  

OK, if you're casting into the wind, add 2 notches on the mag dial.  

 

If you're getting start-up backlash, it's because you're snapping your wrist and jerking the spool - don't do that either - you want smooth acceleration and follow-through.  Spinning tackle rewards wrist-snap jerk with extra distance.  On a baitcaster, wrist-snap is start-up backlash - on a fly rod, wrist snap is a tailing loop that crashes the line into the rod.  

 

^ This Means Something ^

 

Make sure you don't F with the spool tension knob, aka Zero Adjust - its purpose is to set Zero side play and Zero end tension on the spool. 

You do not adjust a Daiwa Zillion the same way you adjust a 1980 Lew's - ignore the people who tell you to.  

 

 

I have 2 fixed-inductor spools that the inductors are so light, I run them at 12 to 14.  And they both cast 2 g past 130'

 

v horse hockey v

I don’t mess with the adjustor knob on mine now. I didn’t learn about that until after I first unboxed it though and of course started ******* with it. Lol. 

2 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

Then don't do that.  

Cast with the lightest thing you're ever going to cast, and set your mag dial to prevent mid-cast backlash.  You're done - you'll never get another mid-cast backlash.  

OK, if you're casting into the wind, add 2 notches on the mag dial.  

 

If you're getting start-up backlash, it's because you're snapping your wrist and jerking the spool - don't do that either - you want smooth acceleration and follow-through.  Spinning tackle rewards wrist-snap jerk with extra distance.  On a baitcaster, wrist-snap is start-up backlash - on a fly rod, wrist snap is a tailing loop that crashes the line into the rod.  

 

^ This Means Something ^

 

Make sure you don't F with the spool tension knob, aka Zero Adjust - its purpose is to set Zero side play and Zero end tension on the spool. 

You do not adjust a Daiwa Zillion the same way you adjust a 1980 Lew's - ignore the people who tell you to.  

 

 

I have 2 fixed-inductor spools that the inductors are so light, I run them at 12 to 14.  And they both cast 2 g past 130'

 

v horse hockey v

I definitely have noticed if I put something lighter on, that I need to increase the mag brakes to prevent a backlash….which sucks cause then I can’t seem to cast it out as far. Today I threw a heavy swim jig and I felt like I was able to lower the brakes…but I did have one massive blowup though. 

[PhishLI]

25 minutes ago, bgaviator said:

Today I threw a heavy swim jig and I felt like I was able to lower the brakes…but I did have one massive blowup though. 

For now, you'll need to stop with the light-switch thumb after the release. You're not ready for that. Once you get a feel for loading and unloading the rod correctly with a given bait, you'll be able to let baits fly. In the meantime, practice slightly riding the spool with your thumb while the bait is ascending even if you lose some distance in the process. Also, practice pitching with a heavier bait which is a thumb-heavy exercise. It'll help educate your thumb. Backlashes are extremely rare once you've figured things out.

[bulldog1935]

I have the advantage of a PhD thumb - really, it's a reflex - casting Ambassadeur weightless 40 years ago, understanding the physics of casting and backlash implicity, long history of tinker-casting 100-y-o NLW reels for grins.  

  (hump photo dropped from link below)

I build my own reels, and know how to set fixed mag for the lightest thing I'm going to throw, and fixed centrifugal for the heaviest.  Done, nothing to adjust again, it will never backlash.  

 

Stock Zillion SVTW, Stock 1016 SV Boost spool, 12-lb fluoro, I get consistent 90' casts with 1/8 oz.  That should be a target for you, set your mag brake there, and don't mess with it again.  If you leave it there, you should be getting longer reliable casts with heavier weights.  The rod loading properly is always part of the result - if the rod won't load the light weight, you can't blame the reel.  

If you want lighter and farther, for now, go to the spinning tackle.  

Later, you may want to consider an aftermarket spool that will let you set up an ML reel with threadline braid or lighter fluoro.  But you don't want to go here until backlash is history.  

[JackstrawIII]

One thing people forget is wind. It might be that your 9 good casts are with the wind and your 10th cast is into the wind... which will cause a backlash unless you're very careful and/or adjust your brakes.

Might not be your issue... but it also might be your issue. Just something to look out for. 

[GReb]

Everyone should learn to throw a baitcaster on a $15 Walmart Shakespeare round reel from 1998. If you learn to cast it you can cast anything 😂

 

OP - don’t worry about the brakes. Reels differ. Users differ. If setting #9 works best for you then use it. After a while you may get comfortable enough to start adjusting it. Give it time. 

[bulldog1935]

Wrist-snap is the worst bad habit people bring from spinning tackle.  

It comes out at the worst possible time - when the desire is to cast farther, because that's what always worked with spinning tackle.  

 

If you read my linked primer above and analyze your backlash, you can figure it out.  

[islandbass]

I’d inspect my casting mechanics and the lure’s aerodynamics. 
 

You can get away with poor casting mechanics with spinning gear but not with casting gear. Check to see if you are making sure the lure’s weight bends the rod back which allows the rod to launch it somewhat like a catapult. Wrists are not really needed but a season angler can get “wristy” if they have the knowledge bulldog has but it’s almost never necessary. Make your rod and reel work for you and not vice versa. 
 

A lure’s aerodynamics can sometimes come into place. Take for example a spinnerbait and a Rapala DT 6 that weigh the same. The latter casts like a bullet, even into a head wind or a side wind with practically no issues. However, the blades of the former can get caught up in the wind rather easily. 
 

Lastly, it seems your thumb could use a little more training. It should always be ready to stop the spool. Always. You can feather (slightly touching) the spool or hover (keeping the thumb close by not touching the spool like 1/8-1/16” above the spool) thumb over the spool to minimize (note minimize, not eliminate) the chances of a backlash.

 

Any one of us can backlash at anytime so the goal is minimize that possibility since you cannot eliminate it completely. 😇😎

[Bankc]

It's just an experience thing.  And backlashes never go away completely.  You just get to the point where you know when you did something to cause one, so you thumb it to stop it from getting bad... most of the time. 

 

A lot of preventing backlashes comes from casting smoothly.  Trying to cast too hard will usually result in a backlash.  Learning how to properly load the rod, so it releases at the exact right moment, takes some experience.  Eventually, the rod becomes an extension of your arm, so you don't even have to think about it, which is one reason why it can be hard for experienced anglers to teach beginners how to cast.  They don't necessarily know what they do anymore.  It's all second nature to them.  A really good angler won't hardly need any brakes on their reel to cast with.  Partly because they can use their thumb, and partly because they know how to keep it smooth and stay within the release of the rod. 

 

But just start off making sure you don't try to overcast anything.  Stay within your limits.  Get the feel for what a good, controlled cast feels like.  And eventually, you'll add more and more distance without losing control or risking a backlash.  And you can slowly begin to back off the brakes as you gain control, to gain more distance. 

[ABU is overpriced]

If you're used to spinning reels, you might be casting with a jerk motion, which was never a great thing with any magnetic braking systems. Secondly, if you're using braid, 8th setting is usually way too much, so if you're still getting overruns, you might have too much line on the spool or your inductor/rotor of the spool is sticky.

[casts_by_fly]

18 hours ago, bgaviator said:

So I got my first baitcaster a few months ago…a Daiwa Zillion from Japan. It’s nice and all. I love how far it can cast and I love how quickly I can reel back in. I get frustrated with the backlashes though that seemingly come out of nowhere. I can toss the lure the same way 10 times and for whatever reason one just backlashes. I’m getting pretty good at picking them out quickly though. I can’t seem to be able to set the brakes lower than about an 8 setting out of 20 though or else I’m almost guaranteed to get a bad backlash. 
 

I must say, I just recently got my first spinning reel too for an ultralight setup. It’s a Daiwa Revros LT 1000. This thing casts far!  Pretty much as far as the baitcast. I’m really enjoying the spinning reel and not having to worry about a backlash. May have to pick up some bigger size spinning reels and put them on a medium or MH rod. 

 

No need to set the brakes lower than 8 on a zillion.  I keep mine around a 10 with zero spool tension and just let it rip.  It will cast further than you can efficiently fish.

 

Also, you shouldn't need to touch the spool tension.  I might up the tension a little for heavier things just to save my thumb a little but going from 1/4 to 3/4 I don't touch it.

[Bazoo]

Very interesting discussion. Thanks @bulldog1935for sharing that about the wrist snapping. I realize that I have done that and have had to move past it to learn how to use a casting rod, but I didn't know what it was or how to verbalize it.

 

[Backroad Angler]

My rule of thumb in recent years has been if I plan on using a Medium Heavy and up rod, more likely it's paired with a baitcaster. Medium rods and below, I like to use it with a spinning reel.