Frogs - what am I doing wrong??

[Fisholder7]

Very frustrated, hoping someone here can help me.  I apologize in advance if this sounds stupid as using topwater frogs is new to me.  I'm an avid saltwater fisherman in New York and started getting back into freshwater lately.  The ponds and lakes I'm fishing have what I'd describe as mostly mild to somewhat moderate vegetation, mostly scattered lilypads that are sometimes bunched together.  I'm using a Lew's Mach2 combo from Dicks Sporting Goods which surprisingly isn't terrible quality (based on my saltwater standards at least) - it's medium action with fast taper.  Reel has 15 lb braid and I'm using 15 lb flourocarbon leader to a Booyah pad crasher jr.  I understand this is considered very light tackle for classic topwater "muck" fishing but I haven't had any issues getting stuck in the pads or vegetation. 

 

Most of the fish are 1-3 lbs and yesterday I must've found a honeyhole as for about 30 mins straight every cast I was getting hit.  However I only landed 2 (out of about 20 strikes) and both were barely hooked.  Of the two I landed one inhaled the frog and the hook was barely imbedded inside the mouth and the other the hook was barely holding on by a thread in its lip.  The majority of fish when I tried to set the hook the frog came flying back at me.  I'm striking the rod straight up in the air full force.  With that said, I've lost two huge fish over the past week that I never got to see, both were "hooked" for maybe 5-7 seconds then came off.

 

I might need a stouter rod, perhaps medium heavy?  But with too heavy tackle what will happen when I set the hook on those 1-3 lb fish?  I'm envisioning them flying out of the water onto the bank... ok maybe I'm exagerating but you get the point. 

 

I appreciate any help you guys can provide.  Thanks!

 

[Team9nine]

37 minutes ago, Fisholder7 said:

I understand this is considered very light tackle for classic topwater "muck" fishing but I haven't had any issues getting stuck in the pads or vegetation.

As you might have already surmised, it’s not so much an issue of getting the bait (un)hung, but of getting the hooks sunk in the fishes mouth. You’ve got to beef up the tackle a bit. Ditch the leader - go straight braid. With the Jr., I like to throw 40# braid. Then bump up the rod to a MH - something with a bit of tip but more backbone. You might also have to adjust your hookset timing, giving the fish a second or two longer to close his mouth or turn on the bait before swinging. You won’t be “flying” 2-3 lb. fish over your head, so no worries there, but you might pull a few away from the slop in a hurry 😉

[Pat Brown]

Frog hookset:

 

Don't set the hook on the bite - set the hook when they pull.

 

This can sometimes require a bit of a delay before you set the hook.

 

Reel the slack out of the line and load the rod tip with it pointed down and just lift firmly and reel quickly when you're sure the fish has committed to the frog and is swimming with it (they wont spit it nearly as fast as you might think). Do NOT do the bass pro shops promo video style slack line SNAP hook set.  This does not do much to drive a hook point without torque and all of the slack reeled out of the line and even then you'll miss fish snapping on them.  Quick but firm and upward with steady fast CONSTANT reeling will hook them deep.

 

A popular hollow body frog modification to increase hook up ratio tremendously is to bend the hooks up and out slightly so they have a nice gap between the points and the body of the frog.

 

Use a minimum of 40 lb braid (4 carrier) or you will be heart broken a lot more than just bad hook sets. Absolutely NO leader.  Direct to braid with a Palomar knot always always always with a hollow body frog.  The rod is perfectly fine.  

 

Downsize your frog to a smaller model and I guarantee you'll catch a lot more of the reluctant strikers.

 

Good luck!  Sounds like you have a very very easy place to learn the frog so it's just gonna be some minor adjustments and you'll be sailing smoothly!

[scbassin]

You would do better using a heavy power rod. I use  A heavy power Dobyns Champion XP DC 736C F/H It's a 6 power Rod,but also takes timing. Once you get the hang of it landing 80% of them is a real good day.

[Reel]

Same comments as everybody else.  I use a MH rod around 7 feet with a baitcaster loaded with 50 pound yellow braid.  I tie direct to the frog and, when there is a strike I let the fish turn before I set hard.  You still loose some but not like you are experiencing.  I live close to you so I fish the same type of water.

[LrgmouthShad]

I have only a couple things to add to this thread

 

 

Ribbit

 

Ribbit

[RRocket]

I think the easiest, most effective thing you can try imminently is not to set the hook immediately.

 

I literally count to 2 before I set the hook.

 

ONE...TWO...hookset.

 

Try that. It's tough not to react immediately. But I think if you give it a couple of beats before hookset your numbers will go up.

 

 

 

[Mobasser]

Like the other guys have said, move up up to z heavier rod, anc practice. Keep at it. It can be tough to hook frogs consistently.

[Fisholder7]

Thanks so much for the advice guys! 

I'll beef up the rod to at least a medium heavy and load with heavier line.

Just out of curiosity, why tie braid directly to the frog?  Is it to alleviate the stretch you get with mono leader?  In saltwater fishing it's become frowned upon to not use a flourocarbon leader so this is a totally different ballgame to me.  I'm assuming bass don't care about seeing the braid coming out of the frog's nose.

 

Thanks again!

[Catt]

@Team9nine 👍

 

@LrgmouthShad Stanley Ribbit 

[LrgmouthShad]

@CattOh, yeah, the Stanley Ribbit. Umm, well, I wasn’t really talking about that. I was just channeling my inner frog. 

[scaleface]

2 out of 20, I thought that was par.

[LrgmouthShad]

A ribbit or toad or whatever gurgling bait you choose cannot pause in place, walk, or bounce up and down. What fun is that? 

[A-Jay]

@Fisholder7

Let's be redundant.

Your gear lacks the horse power to hook the bass that strike.

You are essentially using Ultra Light Frog fishing tackle.

As it's been so astootly noted above,

A heavier rod and heavier braid are the way to go when throwing old Kermit,

Regardless of the size of the bass.

Good Luck.

🐸

A-Jay

[PaulVE64]

First off

WOW TOPWATER RULES

 

These are my thoughts.

Missing 90% of frog hits is a little low but not ridiculous for frogs. Bass in grass tend to slash topwater to stun it first. They rarely engulf it like a trout.

So be patient real down and then swing hard after you feel weight. 

After trying that and you cant get a good hookset then you need a heavier setup. But always be patient.

 

And a fallow up with a senko is great

[LrgmouthShad]

1 minute ago, A-Jay said:

astootly

Astutely* 

It’s okay. I’m here for you.

[PaulVE64]

37 minutes ago, Fisholder7 said:

Thanks so much for the advice guys! 

I'll beef up the rod to at least a medium heavy and load with heavier line.

Just out of curiosity, why tie braid directly to the frog?  Is it to alleviate the stretch you get with mono leader?  In saltwater fishing it's become frowned upon to not use a flourocarbon leader so this is a totally different ballgame to me.  I'm assuming bass don't care about seeing the braid coming out of the frog's nose.

 

Thanks again!

I normally keep the leader because str8 braid is so limp it gets into the hooks too often for me. But it's not a big problem with a frog, it rarely fouls.

[Catt]

28 minutes ago, LrgmouthShad said:

A ribbit or toad or whatever gurgling bait you choose cannot pause in place, walk, or bounce up and down. What fun is that? 

 

Ever throw a Stanley Top Toad? 

https://www.baits.com/frog-factory/ribbit/ribbit-top-toad/?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwwO20BhCJARIsAAnTIVTtIfCgIcKkWQf08gpRyumI7w38sHQk9sgeL7mIu-XU6-4M47570p4aAuXTEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

[Mike L]

Nothing to add

All good information that you’d do well to heed 

 

 

 

 

 

Mike

[LrgmouthShad]

@Catt I have not. You have not put the bait monkey on me but I promise you have just put a massive bait monkey on @Pat Brown. He won’t be able to resist that thing

[Pat Brown]

6 minutes ago, LrgmouthShad said:

@Catt I have not. You have not put the bait monkey on me but I promise you have just put a massive bait monkey on @Pat Brown. He won’t be able to resist that thing

 

 

Already have a couple 😜😜😜

[RRocket]

56 minutes ago, LrgmouthShad said:

A ribbit or toad or whatever gurgling bait you choose cannot pause in place, walk, or bounce up and down. What fun is that? 

Not all float, but several do including the toad I favor. The floating elastomer allows pauses, pops, twitches, etc without sinking.

 

[A-Jay]

20 hours ago, LrgmouthShad said:

Astutely* 

It’s okay. I’m here for you.

Thank you my friend

but I'm from Boston and that's how we spell it.   

#typoforeffect

A-Jay

[MN Fisher]

47 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

but I'm Boston and that's how we spell it. 

Worcester too....

[gim]

50% hook up rate while frog fishing is pretty average.  If you're landing 10 of those 20 blow ups, consider that a success.

 

2 out of 20 is a result of inferior gear of which suggestions above should certainly help.