Improved Clinch Knot Musings.

[Bazoo]

I’ve used the improved clinch knot since I was a kid. But I’ve always had a problem with it not holding some of the time.  It would roll and pull loose when I tested it after tying.

 

I switched to the trilene knot and after I perfected it, haven’t had any issues.

 

I didn’t try the improved clinch knot for a year and when I tied it again, I took more care to get it right and it was solid. I got to thinking that perhaps I had some bad knot tying habits in the past that caused my trouble.

 

Has others have experienced this with the improved clinch?

 

Also, is there any reason or situation that the improved clinch wound be the better or best choice?

[PhishLI]

25 minutes ago, Bazoo said:

I didn’t try the improved clinch knot for a year and when I tied it again, I took more care to get it right and it was solid. I got to thinking that perhaps I had some bad knot tying habits in the past that caused my trouble.

This is my braid knot. After the knot is first cinched, I use a fingernail to slide and lock it down against the hook's eye. Then, with a finger in the bend of the hook, I lock the line down by pulling on the mainline with my other hand. Never fails. However. I wear cut-proof gloves when I fish, so grabbing and pulling braid isn't an issue whatsoever. Don't try it without this type of glove.

30 minutes ago, Bazoo said:

Also, is there any reason or situation that the improved clinch wound be the better or best choice?

It's simple and strong, and all that's needed is a short tag end to complete the knot, so it's not wasting much line compared to other knots which is a bonus, IMO.

[Jig Man]

I quit using it when I learned the Pitzen which for me is easier to do, faster to tie and stronger.

[Hulkster]

I used to use it all the time (with a few notable failures) 

then I switched to the palomar knot and have never looked back. 

zero failures with it and easier to tie etc 

[casts_by_fly]

For bass, I don't use an improved clinch.  I used it for years along with a palomar.  It holds up, especially if you're using thick mono relative to the hook wire.  However as you noted, the trilene knot with the extra pass through the eye is a significant improvement if you want to tie that style of knot.  I don't have handy images, but when you only have a single pass through the eye of the hook, you put a lot of strain on the line where it loses contact with the metal nearest the knot.  You can model it and you can see it when you pull tight under a camera.  It stretches and breaks right in that spot.  Its even worse when you have thin line and a thicker hook wire (relatively speaking).  When you go through the eye twice, the force is spread further and the knot breaks at a much higher force.

 

I do still use the improved clinch when I am trout fishing or panfishing.  Its quick and easy for tying on a single, light bait hook with light line.  And I also don't care much if my line breaks.  Frankly, if I am breaking off a hook catching trout and panfish then its probably due to a snag.  

[Woody B]

I'm going to throw a wrench in the fan.   Like many I used the improved clinch knot when I was a kid, and most of my adult life.   I use a palomar for braid, but I rarely use braid.   I tried a spool of Fluorocarbon and had heard it "liked" certain knots better than others.  The friend who recommended the line recommend a triple loop knot.  The triple loop knot is basically a trilene knot with 3 loops through the hook, instead of 2.   The Fluoro didn't impress me enough to pay what it cost, but I liked the triple loop knot.  I use it now with Big Game mono.   It's easy enough to tie, especially if you're used to tying a trilene or improved clinch knot.   

 

There's a BUNCH of knots that work for a BUNCH of people.   I recommend experimenting with some.  Do some tests to see if the knot breaks before the line or not.   Pick out one that holds good for you, and you can tie quickly and correctly every time.  Stick with it.  For me a triple loop knot usually breaks right at the strength of the line.  IE, using the memory feature on my scale fresh 12 pound Big Game breaks around 15 pounds.   A triple loop knot, in 12 pound Big Games fails around 14 to 14 1/2 pounds.  As long as my line is in good shape IF I have to break off I won't lose a bunch of line.  This also give me pretty much full strength of the line.   

 

For me the strongest knot is a Palomar.   Also, for me it's not as easy to tie on a big lure with treble hooks.   Also, if I get snagged in water that's 25 feet deep I might lose as much as 25 feet of line if I have to break off.  I'm giving up 1/2 to 1 pound of knot strength so I don't leave a bunch of line in the water/lose a bunch of line if I have to break off.   

[newapti5]

What line are you using? With mono, I believe a single improved clinch knot would suffice. But for fluoro, I must use double improved clinch knot and have no problem with it.  

 

No matter single or double, sometimes when the line surface is frayed and not smooth, I could have problem cinching it down, even with water to lubricate. And if I force it down, the knot would be twisted into a ball. In my experience, that would be the only case when improved clinch knots fail. 

[fin]

I used it for years, and like you, I would have occasional failures. And like you, sometimes it would fail when I tested it after tying. There was probably some little subtle thing that I was doing differently every now and then, but I could never figure out what it was.

 

I tried the San Diego Jam and never had those type of issues since I’ve been using it. I can’t recommend it highly enough. I use it on mono.

 

I think most knots have little subtleties that make a difference, things that you can do wrong. Even the SDJ can be stressed if you don’t do it right, but I’ve never had one fail right after tying like the Improved Clinch knot.

[Dan N]

I’ve had a few failures with the Trilene knot lately, but I’m fairly certain it’s because of my failing eyesight 🤣

gotta start bringing the cheater glasses with me!

[Stan_The_Bass]

I have had extremely bad success with the improved clinch knot. I would recommend the FG Knot for braid to flouro leaders and the fish n fool knot for everything else.

[new2BC4bass]

Dad taught me the Clinch Knot when I started fishing at the age of 5.  Then the Improved Clinch Knot when ???? old.  Discovered the Uni Knot in mid-teens and never looked back.  Never had a problem with the Uni on any kind of line.  I can't recall having knots breaking as a youngster.  Could be a senior moment, tho. 

 

[LrgmouthShad]

I will use an improved clinch when I want to tie a knot fast or when the bait has a bunch of treble hooks. I prefer the palomar, but on fluorocarbon you have to be very careful. It takes me a while to tie because I am pretty deliberate tying it. There is less to mess up with the improved clinch. I do believe the palomar is a stronger knot on every line type.

[Choporoz]

15 hours ago, fin said:

I used it for years, and like you, I would have occasional failures. And like you, sometimes it would fail when I tested it after tying. There was probably some little subtle thing that I was doing differently every now and then, but I could never figure out what it was.

 

I tried the San Diego Jam and never had those type of issues since I’ve been using it. I can’t recommend it highly enough. I use it on mono.

 

I think most knots have little subtleties that make a difference, things that you can do wrong. Even the SDJ can be stressed if you don’t do it right, but I’ve never had one fail right after tying like the Improved Clinch knot.

Exactly same. Except that I mostly use fluoro...but SDJ as terminal knot for any line other than braid, which gets palomar only

[Skunkmaster-k]

I cain’t cinch an improved clinch to save my life. 

[Bazoo]

I know this has been hashed out a lot in the past. Thanks for the discussion, and suggestions. I'll have to try some of the other knots that's been suggested.

 

I was referring to mono in my original post.

 

As a kid, I never considered that there was a subtle little thing that wasn't right when tying the knot that caused it to fail. As an adult, I've tried, but haven't figured it out yet.

 

I use mostly mono, but I also use braid now, and I use the trilene knot for both. When I first started tying the trilene knot I had a few failures, before I got a system down with it. Now, I'm very consistent and it never fails.

 

That said I am sort of a knot enthusiast. I do occasionally tie the palomar knot, but mostly if I'm tying on a very small lure or a single small hook. Not due to the hooks (thought passing a treble hooked lure though a loop isn't always easy), but rather the ease of tying to a small object.

 

One of the things I'm looking at is, which knot to teach my boy. He's almost 5. He's getting to where he might be able to start tying on lures soon.

[Skunkmaster-k]

The Trilene knot is a good one. My Dad has arthritic mechanic hands and he said it’s the most comfortable for him to tie. Good strong knot to start a kid on. 

[fishhugger]

21 minutes ago, Bazoo said:

 

One of the things I'm looking at is, which knot to teach my boy. He's almost 5. He's getting to where he might be able to start tying on lures soon.

i'd suggest you teach your son the improved clinch.  to me, it's the standard.  it just always seems fine to me, esp with mono.

i used to teach kids chess. as long as they were five, i'd teach 'em.  i always kept it simple, but solid fundamentals. i wasn't trying to teach future chess champs. i wanted kids to have fun, but be independent and value their experience of learning.  just like fishing?

[wvhunt]

It was the first knot I was taught as a kid and I still use it 90% of the time.  I've started experimenting with other knots, but the improved clinch knot is just a habit for me.

[Bazoo]

Well, since I use a trilene knot... he will want to learn that one. I think its actually easier than the improved clinch, after having done both for quite a while.

[K1500]

I switched from the Trilene knot to the Uni and have had much better luck with it. The uni works better for me on heavier line without causing an issue with lighter line. Palomar for braid.