Legalities of putting a boat in public water.

[Bazoo]

I have some noob questions regarding using my boat. I own a small 2 man plastic bass boat, the type that can be launched by hand on a body of water without a ramp.

 

There is a large pond in town, public. And it has a sign that says "state fishing regulations enforced". I assume that includes putting my boat in.

 

There is a small reservoir in town, that is private land all the way around on the east/north/west. And marked so, but the dam is owned by the city just like the above pond, and is open to the public. I assume that I can put in there at the dam, and I am free to fish around the shore as long as I don't go ashore anywhere other than at the dam area?

 

Where do I find out such information? I have one of the boating/fishing guides that the state puts out, but it doesn't answer these type of questions.

[Way2slow]

Going to depend on local and state laws.  Some water shed ponds don't allow any boats, most won't allow gas motors, but electrics are ok.  Again, that depends on local laws.

As for the boat, you have to check with state game and fish.  Each state has it's own laws about the use of small boats and whether or not they need to be registered.  For instance, my state does not require a registration unless there is a motor on it, that means electric TM or gas.  Some states require it if used on public waters, motor or not.

All state boating safety laws have to be followed.

[TnRiver46]

I say drop her in the water unless there’s a sign that says don’t put a boat in the water 

 

if you’ve got a motor of any kind  the boat has to be registered 

Ever see anyone kayak or canoeing around? 

 

[gim]

You’ll need to find a public access point to physically access the body of water unless you have a helicopter to drop you in. Make sure wherever this spot is public land, not someone’s private property. Dragging a boat, yak, or whatever on private land to access a public pond is trespassing.

 

Here is MN any watercraft that is 10 feet or longer requires watercraft registration whether it has a motor or not. That’s why they make a lot of kayaks that are 9 feet, 11 inches long.

[volzfan59]

In the little Arkansas town that I live in, we have a huge pond/ small lake with walking trails, picnic areas, etc. The pond is split in half by an earthen dam. One end has a boat ramp and is electric only, have to keep the gas motor trimmed up. The lower end is for canoe's, kayaks and bass raider type boats, paddle or electric power.

 

When I moved here, I went to the Police station and asked.

[Bazoo]

Thanks for the replies. I am familiar with the registration laws here.  Anything powered, electric or otherwise has to be registered.
 

 

[Junger]

Some of the man made lakes around me prohibit any kind of water vessel, and the signs are sporadic and not easy to spot. The reason is that there's no access for first responders in case of an emergency. It's only hiking trails to them. Easiest thing to do is check with your local DNR office, also check the body of water on a weekend and see if anyone else is fishing it on a water vessel.

[txchaser]

Last time I had this question I just called the city and said something like "I'm going to put a kayak in lake X, is there anything I need to be aware of or any rules?" - they just said sure go ahead. Wrote down their name and went on about my business. Got some odd looks dragging it across the park but that's their issue not mine. 

 

Watching a local Karen call someone and start pitching a fit was almost as good as when they told her it was ok and she stormed off. 

 

[volzfan59]

11 hours ago, txchaser said:

Watching a local Karen call someone and start pitching a fit was almost as good as when they told her it was ok and she stormed off. 

 

That part is great!!!

[Skunkmaster-k]

Do it Bazoo. Double dog dare. 

[Bazoo]

If my boat, and it's hand trailer was ready, I would. 

 

First, because there is no signs saying no boats, and my understanding is, that if they do regulate boats, they will specifically state it. There is a public access pond I occasionally go to (its out of the way), and it has a sign stating the regulations, including no boats.

 

Second, is that I've had some dealings with the local game enforcement officers and they are all pretty nice. If I was in the wrong, they would most likely inform me, and turn me loose with a warning. Of course, I am very polite to F&W officers. Their overall attitude is that they are there to inform the folks that are honest, and bust the ones that are doing drugs and such.

 

Regardless, I do want to know for the specific bodies of waters I have interest in. It also occurred to me, that if there is no regulation, and I go asking about it, signs might start going up.

 

[Eric 26]

4 minutes ago, Bazoo said:

If my boat, and it's hand trailer was ready, I would. 

 

 

Regardless, I do want to know for the specific bodies of waters I have interest in. It also occurred to me, that if there is no regulation, and I go asking about it, signs might start going up.

 

🤔 In this case is it better to ask for forgiveness rather than permission 🤷‍♂️

[Bazoo]

15 hours ago, gimruis said:

You’ll need to find a public access point to physically access the body of water unless you have a helicopter to drop you in. Make sure wherever this spot is public land, not someone’s private property. Dragging a boat, yak, or whatever on private land to access a public pond is trespassing.

 

Here is MN any watercraft that is 10 feet or longer requires watercraft registration whether it has a motor or not. That’s why they make a lot of kayaks that are 9 feet, 11 inches long.

 

Yes, there is public access to this reservoir in the form of a city owned access road to the dam which is city owned. It's an earthen dam where the gravel road goes the entire length of it right next to the water. There is a locked gate and a no motorized vehicles sign, so a small boat/kayak on a dolly would still be accessible.

 

My question is: can I fish the entire body of water from a boat, since 3 sides of it are privately owned? The dam has no trees or cover, but the sides and north end opposite the dam are covered with trees and brush.

[gim]

Just now, Bazoo said:

My question is: can I fish the entire body of water from a boat, since 3 sides of it are privately owned?

 

Yes.  People don't own the water.  As long as the water has public access (as you described), you can get out there and fish the entire water.

 

I encountered this many times when trying to locate good duck hunting water.  Ponds that were completely surrounded by private land were not huntable unless I got permission.  If any portion of the pond had public ground edging it, I could access the pond there and hunt the whole pond, as long as I stayed in/on the water.

[Bazoo]

Thanks.

 

I would likely be the only person to ever put a boat in this. There are a few people that fish this, but very few, and all from the dam area. They just made it public, access includes a 1/4 mile walk down a graveled path (which turns most off).

[gim]

@Bazoo sounds like there should be some good fishing for fish that have rarely seen a lure then.

[Bankc]

I'd start off with the city.  Contact the city's parks department first if it's within city limits.  If they're not the one's in charge of it, they should at least be able to point you in the right direction.  But I'd suggest starting off with the smallest form of government first.  The smaller the jurisdiction, the more likely you are to get a straightforward, knowledgeable, and timely answer.  So if it's not city owned, move on to the county before contacting the state. 

[king fisher]

You may have to do some research and you still may not be able to find a definite answer.

 

Many years ago I duck hunted a spot in WA.  There was a bridge over a river running into a small lake.  For years it wasn't a problem because the owner let me hunt there whenever I wanted.  Then he sold the place to a person who would not allow any access for fishing or hunting.  I talked to the local sheriff and asked about putting my duck boat in the water at the bridge and floating down to the lake.  He said as long as I didn't get out of the boat and touch the land I was OK, nobody owns the water.

 

The hunting was fantastic because no one was allowed there, plus the owner lived 300 miles away and was never there.  One day the owner drove across the bridge and saw me hunting.  He drove through the pasture and starting yelling and screaming about how I was going to jail.  I told him I would talk to him on the bridge.  I picked up my decoys rowed to the small river, got out and pulled the boat to the bridge without ever stepping on dry land.   When I got to the bridge he called me every name in the book, and even some that weren't in the book.  I told him to call the Sheriff and I would wait for him to come.  He new the sheriff because of an incident a few years earlier with some kids the owner ran off at gun point who didn't know they couldn't fish there.  The Sheriff hated the man so he told me he wasn't going to call her because the local law was crooked, but he would take down my information and his lawyer would be in touch.  I told him if he wanted his lawyer to talk to me have him come to the bridge the next Saturday because I would be hunting there again.

 

I went hunting there again the next Saturday, and sure enough his lawyer and him showed up right after I got my limit of ducks and geese.  I listened to him yell and scream like a child for a few minuets, then talked to his lawyer for a few more.  His lawyer told me the stream was not navigable, and therefore was not public water.  He also told me they were going to contact the district attorney and have him force the Sheriff to arrest me.  I told both of them both I looked forward to a good fight, so bring it on.

 

Later I called the district attorney who did a little research and basically told me he wasn't sure who was right.  He said the case would have to go to court and could go either way.  He then said he was to busy to deal with such a case, and as long as the local law enforcement didn't want to press charges neither did he.  The Sheriff said there was a possibility of hunter harassment charges against the land owner but best to leave sleeping dogs lie.  Hunting season was almost over so I didn't really care.

 

The next year he had constructed a fence across the stream and put more no trespassing sings up than they have at a nuclear facility.  During the off season I had done more research and was positive I was not trespassing.  I decided to play it safe, and only hunt there in the middle of the week.  I new he worked on the other side of the state, and would only be there on a weekend if ever.  It was easy to unhook a couple wires get my boat under the fence, and put the wire back as it was when I left.  I hunted the whole season without getting caught but was ready to go to court if need be.

 

It ended up I was lucky.  About that same time a couple guys did the same thing on a small lake in the next county over from me.  The lake had a public maintained access, but was surrounded by private land.  The lake was one of the best lakes for duck hunting the whole state, and every duck hunter dreamed of going there.  The same group of hunters had leased this lake for many years, and kept a close eye on the lake during the duck season.  The state planted trout in the lake, and during the spring and summer many people used the public access to go fishing.  The two duck hunters decided if people could fish there, they could hunt there.  They were arrested for trespassing, were going to fight it in court, but decided to plead out after failing to raise money for their defense.  It was determined by the law enforcement in that county, that because they touched the bottom of the lake with their boat and decoy anchors, they had trespassed on the owners land.  The lake was small and I assume the owner of the property paid property taxes on the bottom of the lake.  Many places on ranch land are that way.  You buy a section of land and they don't subtract from property taxes the acreage that a pond covers.  The hunters might have won the case in court but couldn't afford to take it to trial.

 

Twenty years later I went back to my home town and asked a friend if anyone ever had enough nerve to hunt that place.  He said the owner leased the hunting to some people that worked for the game department, and they would have anyone arrested that hunted or fished there regardless if they stepped on the land or not.  I talked to a guy that worked for the game department and he confirmed that as far as the law was concerned the stream was not navigable and therefore not public water.  

 

From my research in WA the law had nothing to do with weather a waterway was navigable, the water belongs to the people of the state period.  Because of my history with this issue I am always reading about similar cases in other states.  In Montana a few years ago, there was a decision that favored the anglers trying to float down a river through public land.  Cases in other states have gone the way of the land owner.  In Alaska not only can you be on the water but as long as you are below the high water mark you are OK. and that goes for both state and federal land.  When I first contacted the District attorney in my home county he told me some day there may be a case that will determine who was right in my dispute, but it could go either way, and until the case law is decided it is best to go along with the local law enforcements interpretation of the law.  Back then I was glad, because the local law enforcement agreed with me, but now they agree with the land owner so I'm not so happy.

 

I would recommend you contact your local law enforcement agency and find out where they stand, before launching your boat.  Most likely they wont care, and in most states the water belongs to the public.  On federal land there are actually listed navigable rivers, and some people think that if your river is not on the list than it is not public.  This is a misconception.  The listings are for regulating shipping, commerce, and licensing requirements.  A small stream on Federal land can be considered navigable as long as it can float a canoe.  This interpretation goes back to colonial times when wealthy land owners tried restrict pioneers access to public land beyond there private in holdings.  While it might not hold up in court.  The original practice of accessing water in the US has deep roots in the history of the US.  All sides in every water access dispute will have valid concerns and every case can go either way.  Most likely the person who can last the longest in the fight will win.

 

Go fish the lake and tell us how you do. 

[Swamp Girl]

In Maine, you can own a body of water less than ten acres if your land entirely circles it. However, there is an entire class of YouTube videos where landowners across America assert that they own water, both still and moving, and challenge angling boaters and waders. If I were you, I'd launch your boat, but don't be surprised if someone hurries out of their house and challenges you because they are deluded and think they own the water too.  

[Bankc]

Is it within or near city limits of a big city or way out in the country in the middle of nowhere?

 

Because here in Oklahoma and Texas (and probably a lot of other places too), that matters greatly in how the law will be interpreted and implemented.  Not just by law enforcement, but by the courts too.  A rural county judge or sheriff will likely side with the locals, no matter what the law technically says. 

 

I've had a run in with a sheriff in a rural county where he bold-faced lied about me doing things I didn't do, threatened to arrest me and my wife on these made up charges for no reason, other than "People like you don't belong around here", only to eventually let us go with a smile and handshake when I name dropped the right names.  And I've had another incident where a local policeman in a small town in the middle of nowhere wrote me a ticket for speeding, and when I pointed out that the posted speed limit was indeed faster than I was going, he put the wrong address on the ticket to make it look like I was driving on a different road altogether.  I took photos of him and where we were when I noticed it on the ticket before we drove off to use as evidence in court, but the judge wouldn't even look at them.  He wouldn't listen to a word I said, because I wasn't from around there.  I wasn't allowed to mount a defense.  Years later, they pulled over the wrong guy and he mounted a successful suit against the county, and they lost the ability to collect revenue from traffic tickets.  So you know it was a long running scheme that involved the coordination of law enforcement and the courts to generate outside revenue. 

 

My point being, just because you're on the right side of the law, doesn't mean the law is on your side.  It's not right or fair.  But it's the way things are, and you're not going to win that fight.  Of course, it doesn't help that the sheriffs and judges in Oklahoma are elected.  And it's not good for their reelection campaign to follow the letter of the law if it goes against someone who might vote for them, especially when there are so few votes cast in those rural elections. 

[Bazoo]

The lake is in city limits.

 

I appreciate everyone's perspective. I've done some research and I have found this, which is in regard to rivers/streams, which have to be navigable. No mention made of lakes.

 

https://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Wiki/access:ky#:~:text=However%2C the public can use,by the adjacent riparian landowner.&text=Ownership rights of riparian landowners,right to use navigable waters

 

I will start asking around and see what I come up with. Thank you all for the suggestions.

[flyfisher]

On 7/9/2024 at 12:48 PM, gimruis said:

 

Yes.  People don't own the water.  As long as the water has public access (as you described), you can get out there and fish the entire water.

 This isn't true at least here in Virginia and the other states I have fished in.  A lake can be fully owned and not public, now rivers are different, except in a few cases, where the water is public but technically the land is owned by a private party unless it is a navigable water at which case it cannot be owned and is public up to the high water line.

[TnRiver46]

@flyfisher, that is also true in TN, plenty of water is privately owned. Most ponds are private, golf course water hazards are private, and several rivers are owned out to the halfway point (old deeds). You can still float the rivers but not wade or anchor, then you are trespassing. And boy do some landowners take that waaay to seriously. It comes up often with toobers

 

then there is a section of the Holston River where there is an ammunition plant. If you drive your boat beyond a sign, you are met with an armed guard wielding something like an AK47

 

ill tag @gimruis here too as he may find it interesting 

[Susky River Rat]

In PA a creek/ stream cannot be owned. The creek bed can be owned. If you float down and do not touch bottom or other land you are fine. If you do you are then trespassing. So if you own property on either side you own the whole creek bed as well. If you only own one side you may own half that is not something I am sure of though. 

[gim]

I think the major point here is that the trespass, access, and water rights laws vary from state to state.  I know when I'm legal or not here in MN and I'm sure others are aware of their rights in their own residing states too.

 

I don't take trespassing lightly either.  I almost exclusively hunt on private land every season.  Some landowners are very aggressive and confrontational about trespassing, whether you knowingling did so or not.  These sort of situations tend to escalate quickly when the harvest of game or birds is involved.

 

Here in MN you can legally pursue wounded game without seeking permission on private land.  I would never even consider it though.  I am asking permission first.  If I don't receive it, then I might contact the local authority for assistance.  No buck or wild turkey is worth getting into a fight over when firearms are involved.  Plus I upland bird hunt with a dog and I have no idea if the landowner has traps or whatever laying around on his land.  There are just too many scenarios in my mind that can turn south quickly.