Lures that work when other similar ones wont.

[king fisher]

I was watching a Tactical Bassin video today on topwater lures. I didn't own a single lure they were recommending.  They catch many bass on the lures and all of them looked like they could be the magic lure that would turn a skunk into an epic day.  The Bait Monkey was still sleeping luckily before he woke up and I broke out my credit card, I realized with the exception of a couple novelty lures they were discussing, I already had similar lures in my box.  They went on and on about a certain popper, but I already have a box full of poppers, same with buzz baits, they couldn't say enough good things about two buzz baits I have never tried.  My question is, if I bought the new lures, would they work better than the ones I already own, or how many times does a bass angler crush them on a certain bait thinking it was the only lure that would work, when in reality there were dozens of similar lures that would have worked just as well that day?  Taking it a step further, how many times does a certain technique crush them, making an angler believe that only one technique will work.  Example would be slaying them on a deep crankbait, when a C Rigged worm would have worked just as well.  Same goes for not catching them.  How many times does an angler assume because he didn't catch them on one lure, there must be another lure that would have crushed them, in reality the angler was simply in the wrong spot.  I believe this happens often, and with the exception of spinnerbaits on the Tennessee River, most of the time a location change may be better than a lure change.  

 

Short version of my question, if they don't hit my Pop R are they going to crush a Pop Max?  Because anglers don't like to take a hot bait off to experiment, how often are they fooled into thinking they have the hot lure, when almost any lure fished in a similar manner would work just as well?

[DaubsNU1]

9 minutes ago, king fisher said:

Because anglers don't like to take a hot bait off to experiment, how often are they fooled into thinking they have the hot lure, when almost any lure fished in a similar manner would work just as well?

 

@king fisher, great point, and very TRUE! I was on a mad-worm bite last Sunday...and thought about tying on another lure..but NOPE! I just kept throwing that 7" power worm...and kept catching fish!

 

Your post a great reminder to experiment when the bite is on!

[Buzzbaiter]

When I catch a fish, I often think about whether I’d have caught that fish doing something else. In most cases, I think I would have. I don’t think bass are programmed to only attack a certain presentation at a given moment. Some baits might work better than others in that moment, but I think hungry fish are more inclined to eat something, rather than one particular thing. 
 

It’s a hard question to answer and I’m sure there’s multiple variables to consider. I can say that there have certainly been times when I’ve changed baits without changing spots, and started catching fish. Likewise, I have seen fish in clear water ignore one presentation and then come unglued for another. I’ve had situations where a 4in grub catches some fish, but a ned rig catches a few more. All things considered, I do think lure presentation matters, but not as much as finding active/unpressured fish.

[Fishingmickey]

Since you woke up the bait monkey... I do think certain lures of the same type work better the others. Take the Pop-R for example. Pop-R verses the PopMax or Rico. The quality of the components (hooks especially) are much better. The paint job is better (whether the bass care about that I don't know). It does give me more confidence using it though.  I really think a Jackhammer outperforms most all other vibrating jigs. I have used Berkely Power worms for years. I do think the fish holds on longer. 

     I believe it is truly in the presentation of the lure that really counts. A old shoe lace worked properly could get bit. Tactical Bassin videos are really good IMHO. Matt and Tim do a excellent job educating how-to, presenting, breaking down a category of baits and selling (mostly high end stuff). But I still believe it all boils down to being in the right place at the right time making the right presentation.

FM

[Pat Brown]

I think with lure categories where the angler imparts the action - they're all pretty interchangeable most of the time and it's more about which ones you like etc

 

With lure categories where the lure 'does something on its own' when we reel it in - I feel like certain makes and models get more bites - even individual crankbaits sometimes have something special.

 

Finding fish is more important than bait selection.  Fishing pressure in the US is a HUGE part of why subtle changes MIGHT actually add up to a bite or two more sometimes.

[RRocket]

13 minutes ago, Fishingmickey said:

. A old shoe lace worked properly could get bit. 

I was using a piece of rope to catch fish last week...does that count? LOL 😆 

[Bankc]

Sometimes those subtle differences in lures can be huge.  I've definitely witnessed it more than once.  But most of the time, they don't seem to matter much, at least in my experience.  If they hit a Pop-R, they'll usually hit any other similar sized topwater that moves at about the same pace.  I'm not the kind of guy who typically believes brand X will catch you 20 and brand Y of a nearly identical looking bait will invite the skunk.  Having said that, however, I'm pretty picky about my crankbaits.  Certain brands do seem to catch a lot more fish than others on certain days.  But I think that's due more the differences in action of a crankbait.  One might be very subtle and another very aggressive.  Sometimes, even two seemingly identical crankbaits (color, brand, and everything) can perform very differently in the water. 

 

To qualify all of this, I'm speaking from the experience of someone who often has multiple similar baits of different brands, but who only really switches them out when I lose one.  If one isn't working, I usually switch to something completely different.  So it's not like I'm swapping baits often and running scientific experiments on these more subtle differences.  I'm more a believer of a magic spot, magic technique, or magic speed, rather than a magic lure or magic color.  But I have witnessed a magic lure or magic color on a few occasions, so I won't say there's no truth to that. 

[Reel]

41 minutes ago, king fisher said:

I was watching a Tactical Bassin video today on topwater lures. I didn't own a single lure they were recommending.  They catch many bass on the lures and all of them looked like they could be the magic lure that would turn a skunk into an epic day.  The Bait Monkey was still sleeping luckily before he woke up and I broke out my credit card, I realized with the exception of a couple novelty lures they were discussing, I already had similar lures in my box.  They went on and on about a certain popper, but I already have a box full of poppers, same with buzz baits, they couldn't say enough good things about two buzz baits I have never tried.  My question is, if I bought the new lures, would they work better than the ones I already own, or how many times does a bass angler crush them on a certain bait thinking it was the only lure that would work, when in reality there were dozens of similar lures that would have worked just as well that day?  Taking it a step further, how many times does a certain technique crush them, making an angler believe that only one technique will work.  Example would be slaying them on a deep crankbait, when a C Rigged worm would have worked just as well.  Same goes for not catching them.  How many times does an angler assume because he didn't catch them on one lure, there must be another lure that would have crushed them, in reality the angler was simply in the wrong spot.  I believe this happens often, and with the exception of spinnerbaits on the Tennessee River, most of the time a location change may be better than a lure change.  

 

Short version of my question, if they don't hit my Pop R are they going to crush a Pop Max?  Because anglers don't like to take a hot bait off to experiment, how often are they fooled into thinking they have the hot lure, when almost any lure fished in a similar manner would work just as well?

To answer your question: Why did Zell Rowland take the regular Pop-R manufactured at that time and sand it, and fiddle with it till he got what he wanted and caught more fish with it.  His Pop-R and regular Pop-Rs are are not the same.  If there were just a couple of fish around he believed he would catch them with his transformed lure. If there were a lot, he simply would catch more.  

 

Now you can make the same choice !

[king fisher]

3 minutes ago, RRocket said:

I was using a piece of rope to catch fish last week...does that count? LOL 😆 

What brand of rope, was it a cheap knock off from China, how long, where did you buy it, how heavy was the weight, what color of white is it, and does it work on bass?

[king fisher]

2 minutes ago, Reel said:

To answer your question: Why did Zell Rowland take the regular Pop-R manufactured at that time and sand it, and fiddle with it till he got what he wanted and caught more fish with it.  His Pop-R and regular Pop-Rs are are not the same.  If there were just a couple of fish around he believed he would catch them with his transformed lure. If there were a lot, he simply would catch more.  

 

Now you can make the same choice !

My next question would be would Zell Roland fishing in the same boat as me, catch more on a stock Pop-R than I would catch fishing a tweaked Pop-R or Pop Max?   Angler skill will always trump equipment, but when will the magic lure make the difference when skill level is near equal?  I have a whole box of topwater baits.  Should I buy more expensive ones, or should I simply throw a worm when they wont hit the ones I have?  I have good hooks on the baits I own, so they are not part of the equation. 

[A-Jay]

For me - CONFIDENCE IS KING !

When fishing presentations (including topwater) with baits I believe in,

in conditions that allow me to fish the bait effectively,

I'll admit that I expect a strike on every cast.

Never happens. 

But sometimes I get a few.

When I first started 'building' my arsenal of baits, I was all over the place

"looking for' the few right ones.

I think I have mostly found the best ones for me, I believe in and I rarely stray from those.

Mostly because they get bites. 

I've sold off a bunch of baits that didn't do it for me.

But still add a few new ones here and there seeing if I can improve on what I have.

Don't tell the bait monkey but that's probably a mistake.

Bass aren't that smart but neither am I.

So it's like the blind searching for the blind.

Finally 99% of my topwater fishing happens with either a Pop Max or a Sexy Dawg.

Good Times. 

A-Jay

 

 

[king fisher]

6 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

"looking for' the few right ones

I have seen the pictures of your tackle.  I hate to be the one to tell you, but you have more than a few.

[A-Jay]

16 minutes ago, king fisher said:

I have seen the pictures of your tackle.  I hate to be the one to tell you, but you have more than a few.

I know.

It's just the way I roll.

Sometimes before I go to bed,

I'll go out in the boat and 'look' at my tackle.

Sadly, it helps me sleep at night.

I have problems. 

A-Jay

[Reel]

1 hour ago, king fisher said:

My next question would be would Zell Roland fishing in the same boat as me, catch more on a stock Pop-R than I would catch fishing a tweaked Pop-R or Pop Max?   Angler skill will always trump equipment, but when will the magic lure make the difference when skill level is near equal?  I have a whole box of topwater baits.  Should I buy more expensive ones, or should I simply throw a worm when they wont hit the ones I have?  I have good hooks on the baits I own, so they are not part of the equation. 

The questions you are asking is what makes fishing so much fun.

[Craig P]

The YouTube trap, where’s my wallet! LOL

 

As much as I hate to admit it, there are some magical baits.  I think of a certain jerk bait I use for walleye or a swim bait I use for stripers and of course, there is the old reliable Senko and Ned.  They just get bit more and have turned slow days into great days.  One thing I have learned about those magical baits though, they’ve been proven over many years so when you see the next great bait hit the market, or YouTube, always raise an eyebrow.

 

I have been bitten by the bait monkey the last 5 or so years ALOT! LOL but last year I started testing what works while there is a good bite going on to trim down tackle.  This year I am going through colors.  3 colors just hit the archives yesterday as a matter of fact.  I am liking my trimmed down selection though, it really helps keep me focused and for the most part, catching.

[casts_by_fly]

If you want to go further down the YouTube rabbit hole, Ty Berger talks about similar but alternative presentations at times. The gist is that if bass are hitting one of them then there is a good chance they would hit another one. For example, a chatterbait and a lipless. Not the same lure, but they will catch the same bass a lot of the time. Sometimes if you’re fishing one and the bites stop or are inconsistent then swapping to the other will pick things back up again. A beaver, a tube, and a brush hog would be another set.

 

for me, rather than thinking about a specific brand or model being the deal, I think about size and location first. A big top water, a small bottom presentation. Get that right first. 
 

where a different brand or model DOES make a difference though is efficiency and component. Sometimes a specific shape of bill or angle of a wire bait arm just comes through the cover better with fewer hangups or less slime on the lure. The extra time spent picking slime off a lure is lost efficiency. 

 

 

[Bird]

I think the more expensive the bait and tackle the more fish you catch 😁

[Munkin]

Sometimes there is a subtle difference between baits that we cannot see? The Popper was listed as one of these baits. I have like 15 different brands/models of poppers and can say they are not all the same. Balsa poppers like the Splash-It and Rico are more of a finesse topwater bait. The Spash-It has been a top producer for the past 2 years over my other poppers when the water is hot and clear.

 

Allen

[Woody B]

I think it, at least to some extent it depends on fishing pressure.   If Bass are crushing shad 6 feet deep, but everyone is fishing with a DT6, then a DT6 might not be the best choice.   Perhaps a Spro Little John 50 or a Strike King pro model 3 would work better.   All are similar baits, but I suspect have subtle differences in their look and action.   

 

If I'm correct then the "specific recommend lures" might not be the best choice.   

[GRiver]

I try and tell myself it’s my fault, it’s the way I’m fishing the bait, too fast , too slow, not twitching right. Or even better “ They’re ain’t no fish here”. If I don’t think this way I’m going end up like…. Won’t mention his name, or me getting a Jon boat to tow behind for a tackle box.

[IntroC]

21 hours ago, A-Jay said:

I know.

It's just the way I roll.

Sometimes before I go to bed,

I'll go out in the boat and 'look' at my tackle.

Sadly, it helps me sleep at night.

I have problems. 

A-Jay

I agree %100. Sometimes I just go out in my garage and look at all the teeth marks on my baits. 

[nso123]

One way to look at it for me is to consider the great Senko vs Dinger vs The General. All very similar, but the original Senko just seems to outperform the others for me. I don’t know if it would matter throwing them back to back when the fish are biting. 

[Americanzero]

19 minutes ago, nso123 said:

One way to look at it for me is to consider the great Senko vs Dinger vs The General. All very similar, but the original Senko just seems to outperform the others for me. I don’t know if it would matter throwing them back to back when the fish are biting. 

I always wonder this with the Ned rig. Will half a Senko really outperform a 3” dinger that is the same color? I’m on my way to finding out now. I only have a few senkos left of the magic color so I grabbed a bag of dingers. I’ll run the dingers through, and if I don’t get anything I’ll run the Senko through, and see if it gets anything the Yum missed.