What minimum LB test braid for Northern Pike

[CDMTJager]

It has happened 5 times now in the last seven fishing trips that my son or I have been fishing weightless flukes rigged weedless and have hooked for this lake, large to very large northern pike. Last one my son hooked and I got a very good look at it and it was at least a 36 incher before it bit through the 15lb mono leader. That was the second one that trip as I caught one and managed to land and release it.

I have while not huge in number still a significant number of what I thought were big bass take my fluke I hookup good and my line just failed, and now I'm thinking they could have been pike that just bit me off.

 

Right now am using 12-15lb Yo-Zuri Copolymer as a leader and 20lb Suffix 832 braid as my main line but want to give a leader of braid a try.

Does anyone know what the minimum LB braid I would need to use as a leader that a northern pike would have significant difficulty cutting with it's teeth?  

[JJP]

Braid will get cut easier than mono or fluoro. If you’re going to target pike use a short wire leader

[Functional]

Agreed, use a steel leader or at a minimum bump that up to a 20-25# mono leader. Big Game or Trilene XT. 

[MN Fisher]

Pick your pound-test - tie-able wire leader.

[gim]

I've tried up to 40 pound braid and the pike still cut through it.  You could try 50 or even higher but I think it would just be easier to use a leader material instead near the lure.

 

I use Seaguar Blue Label.  Its specifically designed to help reduce bite offs from toothy fish.

 

The size of the pike doesn't make a difference.  Even the small 20 inchers will bite through the line.  Believe me, I've dealt with this problem for a decade or more.

[JackstrawIII]

I recently landed a 35” tiger musky caught on a fluke with straight 50lb braid. But, I think I just got lucky. Call it a “fluke” (pun intended). 
 

Steel or titanium leader is the way to go if you’re fishing where this sort of thing is likely. 

[A-Jay]

3 hours ago, CDMTJager said:

It has happened 5 times now in the last seven fishing trips that my son or I have been fishing weightless flukes rigged weedless and have hooked for this lake, large to very large northern pike. Last one my son hooked and I got a very good look at it and it was at least a 36 incher before it bit through the 15lb mono leader. That was the second one that trip as I caught one and managed to land and release it.

I have while not huge in number still a significant number of what I thought were big bass take my fluke I hookup good and my line just failed, and now I'm thinking they could have been pike that just bit me off.

 

Right now am using 12-15lb Yo-Zuri Copolymer as a leader and 20lb Suffix 832 braid as my main line but want to give a leader of braid a try.

Does anyone know what the minimum LB braid I would need to use as a leader that a northern pike would have significant difficulty cutting with it's teeth?  

Use this ~

It works well.

A-Jay

[Further North]

9 hours ago, Functional said:

Agreed, use a steel leader or at a minimum bump that up to a 20-25# mono leader. Big Game or Trilene XT. 

20 - 25# mono is not enough to stop pike from cutting it.

I've seen 50# fluoro cut like is wasn't even there...

9 hours ago, MN Fisher said:

Pick your pound-test - tie-able wire leader.

This is the answer.

It's not the weight of the braided line that's the issue, it's lack of a bite guard.

 

**********

 

I use tieable wire on almost all my rigs, both fly and gear.

For my fly fishing rigs - since my leaders are mono - I use an Alberto Knot to tie in about a foot of tieable wire.

For my conventional rigs - all using braid - I use an FG Knot to connect the tieable wire to the braid main line (exception: I run single strand Knot-2-Kinky on a couple rigs, that takes me back to the Alberto knot.

Tying in tieable wire allows me to put a swivel at the end of the line and avoids any possibility of running a swivel through my guides.

I use tieable wire exclusively because I think that by the time you get fluorocarbon leader heavy enough to be effective (at least 80# - 100#) it impacts the action of the fly/bait/lure too much.

[Functional]

@Further North I dont disagree. He said weightless flukes and figured if he went too heavy he would lose the action. Steel leader is still the preferred and what I used on our annual pike trip. 

[gim]

Just now, Functional said:

He said weightless flukes and figured if he went too heavy he would lose the action. Steel leader is still the preferred and what I used on our annual pike trip. 

 

There is a fine line between protecting from bite offs and inhibiting lure action.  A fluke that the OP speaks of is intended to be targeting bass.  Certain types of leaders or wire will certainly affect the action of specific lures, including a fluke.

 

What you're speaking of here is a trip when you're specifically targeting northern pike.  That's not really the same as targeting bass.  At least that's not how I see it.

 

There are certain applications where you're just gonna have to tolerate potential bite offs from pike or muskies when targeting bass.

[Susky River Rat]

You are better off with some kind of steel wire than heavier FC. You won’t lose as much action on baits. That is why musky guys tend to switch to wire for smaller bass like baits. Action>than a visible leader. At least in most cases.

[Further North]

5 hours ago, gimruis said:

 

There is a fine line between protecting from bite offs and inhibiting lure action.  A fluke that the OP speaks of is intended to be targeting bass.  Certain types of leaders or wire will certainly affect the action of specific lures, including a fluke.

 

What you're speaking of here is a trip when you're specifically targeting northern pike.  That's not really the same as targeting bass.  At least that's not how I see it.

 

There are certain applications where you're just gonna have to tolerate potential bite offs from pike or muskies when targeting bass.

A lot of the tieable wire is much more flexible than heavy mono or fluorocarbon...particularly in the lighter weights.  I use a fair amount of 13# and I haven't seen any negative impact on lure action.

That's not an argument, or a counterpoint...just some information.  Not many people (particularly in the conventional fishing world) are using tieable wire at all, and even fewer are using the light weight wire.

2 hours ago, Susky River Rat said:

You are better off with some kind of steel wire than heavier FC. You won’t lose as much action on baits. That is why musky guys tend to switch to wire for smaller bass like baits. Action>than a visible leader. At least in most cases.

Yup.

[Dwight Hottle]

There is a second choice to the tieable multistrand wire. I have fished for pike extensively across most of Canada & my preferred leader material was single strand titanium in 20 lb test using a small swivel for tying your main line to with a simple snap for attaching your lure. They worked very well with bass sized jerk baits & did not interfere with the action. 

[Further North]

5 hours ago, Dwight Hottle said:

There is a second choice to the tieable multistrand wire. I have fished for pike extensively across most of Canada & my preferred leader material was single strand titanium in 20 lb test using a small swivel for tying your main line to with a simple snap for attaching your lure. They worked very well with bass sized jerk baits & did not interfere with the action. 

Yessir!

That's the Knot-2-Kinky I referenced in my post above:

 

21 hours ago, Further North said:

...exception: I run single strand Knot-2-Kinky on a couple rigs...

Great stuff.  https://aquateko.com/products/knot-2-kinky-single-strand-nickel-titanium-leader-wire

I frequently have one leader last a full season, or more.

I put my swivel at the end, just before the bait/lure so I don't risk running the swivel through the tip guide.

A few things to look out for, for people who have not used this product:

1. It is super thin, and will cut you quickly if you try to grab the leader with a fish on it.  Either avoid grabbing the leader...or wear gloves.
2. The tag ends of the knots are razor sharp and will slice you instantly if you grab the leaders around the knots...like when you're switching baits/lures...or unhooking a fish.
3. The knots look awful - they will not snug down...but that's OK...I've had them last all season.
4. You can coat the knots with UV cure material to help with the last two things a bit.  I tried it a few times and don't bother any more.

[Further North]

...another thing about the single strand nickel-titanium leader material:

It'll take hundreds of hits and landed fish without kinking or getting beat up.

There's a video on the Knot-2-Kinky website showing how it'll actually stretch and snap back.

The real key to using is your connection to the main line - your knots have got to be 100%. 

[gim]

1 hour ago, Further North said:

another thing about the single strand nickel-titanium leader material:

It'll take hundreds of hits and landed fish without kinking or getting beat up.

 

I use some titanium leaders when I am muskie fishing.  They are very durable.  My steel ones get kinked up from pike regularly.

 

This is also partially why I like the original Terminator spinnerbaits.  They have a titanium frame and the durability is unrivaled.

[CDMTJager]

4 hours ago, Further North said:

Yessir!

That's the Knot-2-Kinky I referenced in my post above:

 

Great stuff.  https://aquateko.com/products/knot-2-kinky-single-strand-nickel-titanium-leader-wire

I frequently have one leader last a full season, or more.

I put my swivel at the end, just before the bait/lure so I don't risk running the swivel through the tip guide.

A few things to look out for, for people who have not used this product:

1. It is super thin, and will cut you quickly if you try to grab the leader with a fish on it.  Either avoid grabbing the leader...or wear gloves.
2. The tag ends of the knots are razor sharp and will slice you instantly if you grab the leaders around the knots...like when you're switching baits/lures...or unhooking a fish.
3. The knots look awful - they will not snug down...but that's OK...I've had them last all season.
4. You can coat the knots with UV cure material to help with the last two things a bit.  I tried it a few times and don't bother any more.

First greatest of thanks to all who replied with their help by sharing their experiences with me and educating me about braids lack of cut resistance.

 Had absolutely no idea whatsoever such fishing specific tieable wire leader even existed. I just ordered some in 12lb and 18lb to experiment with.

 

I never knew braid was so susceptible to being bitten through by toothy critters. I used to use Berkley Fireline because my mono was getting destroyed constantly by zebra muscles while fishing for smallmouth bass in lake michigan. Once I went to Berkeley Fire Line I never again had zebra mussels be a problem for me. Based on that previous experience and the fact I couldn't cut Fireline, Power pro or Suffix braid with toenail clippers and needed a sharp tight pair of scissors to cut braid  I assumed braid was extremely abrasion and cut resistant. I now stand corrected for my obvious completely wrong assumption of braid having superior cut resistance.

 

My son went fishing by himself last night in the same area and again got bit off by a large in his estimation 30" pike. Again he was fishing 5.25" Zoom super fluke weedless with a 4/0 Owner screw lock hook. Caught one pike on a top water frog as well. I do not know what the deal is with all these pike, never use to catch more than one or two all year now its one or two every trip. Not complaining as we are happy catching any big game fish that bites, just trying to figure a way to rig so I can catch pike but not spook off bass with a leader and stop loosing rigs.

 

Again thanks to all who helped out with sharing their experiences with me.

[gim]

1 hour ago, CDMTJager said:

I do not know what the deal is with all these pike, never use to catch more than one or two all year now its one or two every trip.

 

I sometimes catch a couple dozen of them in an outing when targeting bass.  They're a merciless pack of slime darts that ruin tackle.  Luckily I've only caught 2 all season thus far.

[casts_by_fly]

I watched a small tiger musky shark my frog last year.  50 lb 832.  About 25-30 yards away.  It came out from under a weed mat that was 20' away and annihilated it.  When I pulled back, it was nothing but air.  Similar experience on a small tiger this spring on a rage bug.  I got a hook set, felt the weight, and gone.  Even getting a good hook in the mouth wasn't enough to keep the braid off its tooth tips when it turned.

 

Then again, sometimes you get lucky.  This was 6 lb mono leader on 10 lb braid.  I thought it was a bass cruising on livescope.  Put a jigheaded fluke in front it of and got a good hookset.  Halfway to the boat the line snaps so I assumed I tied a bad knot and it was a big smallie.  Next cast (probably the same fish) the hook was in the roof of the mouth and the fish was almost under the boat when it hit.  I must have managed to keep the line straight up and down enough to not catch a tooth.  

 

[Further North]

29 minutes ago, casts_by_fly said:

Then again, sometimes you get lucky.

I had a 28" pike eat a blockhead popper I was fishing with a 6 wt. fly rod a couple weeks ago...8 lb. mono leader, no wire...the hook got caught in the corner of the pike's jaw, away from teeth and gill rakers...landed the fish...but it was pure luck.

 

Tieable wire rules for esox.

[gim]

1 hour ago, casts_by_fly said:

I must have managed to keep the line straight up and down enough to not catch a tooth.  

 

Yep if you can just manage to hook the outer edge of their mouth then there is a decent chance of landing one.  If they inhale the lure and you don't have some type of leader material, say goodbye. 

[TnRiver46]

4 hours ago, Further North said:

I had a 28" pike eat a blockhead popper I was fishing with a 6 wt. fly rod a couple weeks ago...8 lb. mono leader, no wire...the hook got caught in the corner of the pike's jaw, away from teeth and gill rakers...landed the fish...but it was pure luck.

 

Tieable wire rules for esox.

That happened to me in Michigan, got a 2 footer with 6 mono. The previous 7 or so pike cut the line like scissors on the hookset 😂 

 

honestly thought I had bad line or something and was hitting trees until I finally hooked a fish, didn’t know there were pike where I was fishing until I finally caught one 

[casts_by_fly]

On 7/8/2024 at 12:35 PM, Further North said:

I had a 28" pike eat a blockhead popper I was fishing with a 6 wt. fly rod a couple weeks ago...8 lb. mono leader, no wire...the hook got caught in the corner of the pike's jaw, away from teeth and gill rakers...landed the fish...but it was pure luck.

 

Tieable wire rules for esox.

 

On 7/8/2024 at 1:49 PM, gimruis said:

 

Yep if you can just manage to hook the outer edge of their mouth then there is a decent chance of landing one.  If they inhale the lure and you don't have some type of leader material, say goodbye. 

 

got lucky on one last night.  I was swimming a rage ned cut-r worm back to the boat when this one hit.  Hooked right in the nostril on 8 b fluoro leader and 10 lb braid.  About a 20" fish.

 

 

 

[MassBass]

Keep in mind if you use braid to wire, there is no stretch in that rig and you could run into issues when playing big pike. Your rod and drag setting would need to be able to compensate.