Line Noise

[Bazoo]

I've mentioned my heavily pressured local lake, Freeman Lake, in the past, and as I continue to figure out the secrets of success there, I've been doing a lot of pondering. I noticed when I use braided line on my spinning rod, it makes a sound as the line goes through the guides, and as it has pressure on it when I'm reeling it in. So I surmise that the fish also hear this sound.

 

Further, I surmise, that though I cannot hear a sound, monofilament fishing line also makes a sound. I assume that fluorocarbon does as well. All making different sounds, and the sounds probably vary somewhat between brands/types/weights.

 

I've seen it said when fish are heavily pressured, that you should downsize your line and rig. I always thought of downsizing the line for the physical visibility of the line, but it just recently occurred to me, that the reduction in the sound of the line might be the true reason a smaller line is preferable.

 

What's everyone else think?

[Team9nine]

5 minutes ago, Bazoo said:

but it just recently occurred to me, that the reduction in the sound of the line might be the true reason a smaller line is preferable.

 

What's everyone else think?

I’m skeptical of that theory 

[MickD]

I have never heard line noise on a retrieve.  I don't think mono or FC make enough noise to matter.  If braid noise concerns you, premium braids with higher strand counts are quieter than 4 strand braids.

[FryDog62]

I think there are a number of other sounds and factors that would affect fishing before fishing line..

[MN Fisher]

3 minutes ago, FryDog62 said:

I think there are a number of other sounds and factors that would affect fishing before fishing line..

Steve Rogers actually did some tests using a hydrophone...sonar was the main thing, but he also did a little bit with TMs and just general boat sounds. Results were surprising.

Sonar and other sounds.

 

[Dwight Hottle]

I am in the camp that fish don't seem to be deterred by braid versus mono/flouro except for some situations like extremely clear water while fishing for trout. But I do believe they can become conditioned to certain stimuli. Case in point while fishing lake Baccarac in Mexico we learned (big fish Jeff Howell, @A-Jay & myself that the bass would not bite as frequently when using braid versus mono/flouro. The guides were very adamant about using braid as it's too noisy. My immediate reaction was bull-@hit but after several trips I became a believer. I don't think it's a sight issue but an under water noise issue caused by vibration. I also think that a faster retrieve with a crank bait or spinner bait is especially noisy as opposed to slow fishing a jig or worm that doesn't set up a vibration under water.  

[bulldog1935]

There's always the assumption on BR that braid = braid.  

There are 3 generations of braid currently on the market - bare spectra, coated braids, drawn+fused+coated braid.  

Of course there's a noise difference fishing 50-lb spectra vs. 25-lb WXP1.  

[dodgeguy]

I hate braid noise. I use nothing but braid. I suggest Vicious No Fade Braid 8 strand. Sufix 832 and131 are also quieter than most.

[WRB]

Sound made by line going through rod guides isn’t a vibration the transfers down line that is completely dampened by water.

Tom

[Choporoz]

1 hour ago, Bazoo said:

 I noticed when I use braided line on my spinning rod, it makes a sound as the line goes through the guides, and as it has pressure on it when I'm reeling it in. So I surmise that the fish also hear this sound.

...

...but it just recently occurred to me, that the reduction in the sound of the line might be the true reason a smaller line is preferable.

Several years ago @TnRiver46mentioned how noisy braid is underwater....since then, I've wondered similarly to you... have I vastly underestimated the noise 'reduction' benefits of fluoro over braid?

[TnRiver46]

12 minutes ago, Choporoz said:

Several years ago @TnRiver46mentioned how noisy braid is underwater....since then, I've wondered similarly to you... have I vastly underestimated the noise 'reduction' benefits of fluoro over braid?

Unfortunately you’d have to ask a fish but I can definitely hear it while swimming haha. Granted I still get hungry while swimming as well 

[new2BC4bass]

My first braid was Sufix Performance.  I no longer remember whether or not it made noise on the retrieve when new.  A few years later I had to change it out due to line twist after about an 8 hour day of casting with line tied directly to a 3/4 oz. spoon.  Made a trip to a local Walmart (was visiting in Florida) and re-spooled with 40# Original Power Pro.  Was amazed at how much louder the line was on retrieve.  I'll have to take the reel out again to see if the line has quieted after break-in as I don't remember that either. 

 

[WRB]

Simple method to resolve this question is drop a hydrophone in the water!

Tom

[FryDog62]

1 hour ago, MN Fisher said:

Steve Rogers actually did some tests using a hydrophone...sonar was the main thing, but he also did a little bit with TMs and just general boat sounds. Results were surprising.

Sonar and other sounds.

 

I personally think the trolling motor, especially when hitting Spot-Lock while moving (and the head turns in circles and screeches to regain position) turns fish away more than anything. Bigger fish, that have likely been caught before, probably remember that sound when the guy that caught them put on the brakes to reel him in… 

[gim]

8 minutes ago, FryDog62 said:

I personally think the trolling motor, especially when hitting Spot-Lock while moving (and the head turns in circles and screeches to regain position) turns fish away

 

FFS transducers have been known to emit a much louder sonar beam too.  I could definitely see the vibration of a prop on the bow mount spooking fish in shallow water.

 

Migh be best to just sneak in like a ninja.

 

[Craig P]

I removed Livescope from my boat this year after seeing it literally chase bass off of beds. I could not believe my eyes when I seen that and I tried several beds, all with the same result. I turned LS off that day and immediately began catching.

 

Coincidence?  I can’t say for certain but I ended up removing livescope completely and sold it after using it for close to 4 years. End result, I’ve caught many more fish this year. Is it because I’m not “looking” for the perfect cast?  Wasting time tinkering?  Placebo?  Who knows but I do believe fish on the pressures lakes near me are becoming keen to the sound and know when to keep their mouths closed. 

[MN Fisher]

59 minutes ago, gimruis said:

Migh be best to just sneak in like a ninja.

You mean like Katie does in her canoe?

[bulldog1935]

If "damping by water" was universal, fish wouldn't have lateral lines, which are their ears.  

Sound travels farther, faster and stronger through water than through air.  

The rod itself is a source of vibration, and there can be harmonics that amplify each other.  

The other end of your line is a vibrating lure, and the line is under tension just like a string-and-tin-can telephone.  

[A-Jay]

3 hours ago, Dwight Hottle said:

I am in the camp that fish don't seem to be deterred by braid versus mono/flouro except for some situations like extremely clear water while fishing for trout. But I do believe they can become conditioned to certain stimuli. Case in point while fishing lake Baccarac in Mexico we learned (big fish Jeff Howell, @A-Jay & myself that the bass would not bite as frequently when using braid versus mono/flouro. The guides were very adamant about using braid as it's too noisy. My immediate reaction was bull-@hit but after several trips I became a believer. I don't think it's a sight issue but an under water noise issue caused by vibration. I also think that a faster retrieve with a crank bait or spinner bait is especially noisy as opposed to slow fishing a jig or worm that doesn't set up a vibration under water.  

Yup !

I didn't mention this because 95 % of the braid brigade on this forum would scream "that's BS."

But we know.

A'Jay

 

[Choporoz]

I see that a recent Ken Duke (Bass After Dark) 2+ hour podcast is about noise.  Not sure when I'll get through that...can anyone summarize?

[MickD]

3 hours ago, MN Fisher said:

Sonar and other sounds.

Very interesting.  Especially considering my experience in about 6 feet of water on spot lock with one depth finder on with the stern transducer, and I took a 4+ pound smallie and told my cousin to drop a tube because others were following, and he took one about the same size right under the boat.  I am not doubting the testing, only stating that depth finder noise might and maybe might not make a difference.  I think when the fish want to feed, they will feed.  If they are sort of off, it might make the difference between feeding and not.  Thanks,  good stuff.

[A-Jay]

15 minutes ago, MickD said:

Very interesting.  Especially considering my experience in about 6 feet of water on spot lock with one depth finder on with the stern transducer, and I took a 4+ pound smallie and told my cousin to drop a tube because others were following, and he took one about the same size right under the boat.  I am not doubting the testing, only stating that depth finder noise might and maybe might not make a difference.  I think when the fish want to feed, they will feed.  If they are sort of off, it might make the difference between feeding and not.  Thanks,  good stuff.

When it comes to depth finder 'noise'

I am not sure which way to lean. But isn't 'noise' the entire premise behind the infamous Hydrowaves fish attracting system.

I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

Personally I never really bought into that deal.

A-Jay

[Team9nine]

22 minutes ago, Choporoz said:

I see that a recent Ken Duke (Bass After Dark) 2+ hour podcast is about noise.  Not sure when I'll get through that...can anyone summarize?

 

3 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

When it comes to depth finder 'noise'

I am not sure which way to lean. But isn't 'noise' the entire premise behind the infamous Hydrowaves fish attracting system.

I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

Personally I never really bought into that deal.

A-Jay

 

You're in luck. BAD was Livingston Lures guy, Hydrowave guy, and a fishery scientist ("3 guys walk into a bar"). Two hours later, maybe they'll convince you to buy one of their many products with their "sound" arguments   

 

Haven't watched the full episode - just breezed through some soundbites to get an idea of the subject and discussion points. Very complicated subject that many/most anglers really don't have a good understanding of, so that leaves lots of room for anecdotal experience and personal observation to reign supreme. I have to believe nobody has really figured it out yet, manufacturer or otherwise, based on everything I see and read coming from all areas of the angling world. Oh, yeah - FFS discussion in that episode, too (point that sonar beam at them), in case you haven't heard enough about that subject yet 

[WRB]

Vibrations generated underwater travel fast and far, above water totally different story vibration/sound doesn’t travel unless can move water.

Tom

[Woody B]

I can't comment on line noise, but I've experimented with turning all sonar pings off.   I've found non responsive Bass, that either followed my lures for a short time, or ignored them.   I've left the area, turn off all pings, then came back from a different direction, and still was unable to get a bite.   One thing I've learned with Active Target is I can't make a Bass bite that's not in the mood.   It's also been my observation (watching the screen) that accurate casting is somewhat important, but a cast that doesn't land like a feather is useless regardless of accuracy.   

 

I experimented with this some last Winter.   I had caught a few Bass from a 40 foot deep school using an Alabama Rig.   I was using a roll cast, thumbing it down, while lowering my rod.  This results in a very light entry, even with the big heavy rig.   I made an overhead "bomb" cast, then watched the remaining school swim away.   

 

 

I bet that Tom (WRB) can cast one of his jigs a very long distance, and still have it land like a feather.  He caught monster Bass in clear, pressured water.  

 

I read an article a while back regarding telemetry studies of Bass on a couple big lakes.   "They" (whoever they are) were able to track tagged Bass in real time.   They could drive over a deep school with or without their sonar on and many of the Bass would swim away.   This told me that driving past to verify Bass are there can, and may run some of them off.  With FFS you can see the Bass without ever driving over them.