Battery and charger recommendations

[MN Fisher]

34 minutes ago, JackstrawIII said:

Interstate marine battery

Problem is - those are still lead-acid batteries, which you don't want to draw down under 50%...so a 100ah in real-usage gives you 50ah.

 

Regularly drawing a lead-acid battery below 50% charge will damage the plates and shorten the lifespan.

[JackstrawIII]

Just now, MN Fisher said:

Problem is - those are still lead-acid batteries, which you don't want to draw down under 50%...so a 100ah in real-usage gives you 50ah.

 

Regularly drawing a lead-acid battery below 50% charge will damage the plates and shorten the lifespan.

 

This is true, no doubt. However, lead acid has a LOT going for it. They're inexpensive batteries that you know will always work, won't catch on fire, and can be replaced in any hardware/automotive store in America if you're in a pinch. Yeah, so you might have to replace it every couple years, but big deal. 

 

At least that's how I see it. Are lithiums "better"... maybe, but I'll gladly keep buying lead acid for the time being and just replace them every couple years. Maybe I'm wrong? 

[MN Fisher]

7 minutes ago, JackstrawIII said:

won't catch on fire

That's only an issue with Lithium-Ion batteries...which they don't use in boats anymore. They've all gone to LiFePo4 which is MUCH safer.

 

Also, the cycle-lifespan of LiFePo4 batteries is 10x that of lead-acid. So while the initial cost is 2x-3x that of Lead-Acid, in the long run it's much cheaper to go to Lithium.

 

And as I noted above, you can get Mighty Max LiFePo4 batteries through any Home Depot...so that tosses the 'local purchase' complaint away.

[Way2slow]

Is this a boat you recently purchased or one you have had for years.  If recently purchased, do you have the paperwork. 

The reason I ask, you need to make sure you have your ducks lined up before you go DNR.  

My son lives in Brownsville Tx and several years ago I bought cheap 12' jon and just got a bill of sale.  I found out that was not good enough, I need the registration also and he didn't have one.  I ended up having to lie about it and say it was just an old boat I had for many years on my pond in GA and was giving it to my son to in the resacas around Brownsville and was going to put a TM on it, so he needed to register in it.  That was the only way we could get a registration for it.  Luckily, we had called before showing up in person and found out they would not register it with just a bill of sale.

[BrianMDTX]

It’s a new boat. I have the manufacturer’s statement of origin and the bill of sale. But, the bill of sale shows $0.00 as the purchase price and it was a warranty replacement for a boat costing about 50% less. I have to pay a tax and think I need something from the manufacturer that covers that. 

[Way2slow]

I would think if you had the MSO and a signed BOS the dollar amount would not matter as far as getting it registered.  That was basically the same thing I did; I just said the boat was gifted to my son and didn't have a dollar amount.  Of course I was only dealing with a old beat up $75 boat.  We had to take the boat to them so they could inspect it (they had an office in Brownsville so that was easiest).   

I wouldn't think taxes get involved until you get into county and state Ad Valorem taxes and for no more than that could have cost, I wouldn't think there would be any.   Most states have a guide they go by, and it doesn't matter what the BOS says anyway, they just go by what they think it supposed to be worth.  That keeps people from saying it was $1,000 on the BOS when it was really $10,000.   It was almost 10 years ago when I had to deal with them so things may have changed.

[gim]

10 hours ago, JackstrawIII said:

At least that's how I see it. Are lithiums "better"... maybe, but I'll gladly keep buying lead acid for the time being and just replace them every couple years. Maybe I'm wrong? 

 

I still use a lead acid battery for my cranking/starting battery.

 

The real advantage with a lithium battery is the weight, IMO.  I think the OP is in a small watercraft and weight may be an issue.  That's why these batteries are so popular in yaks and other small boats that have a more limited weight capacity.

[JackstrawIII]

15 minutes ago, gimruis said:

The real advantage with a lithium battery is the weight, IMO.  I think the OP is in a small watercraft and weight may be an issue.  That's why these batteries are so popular in yaks and other small boats that have a more limited weight capacity.

 

Another very good point. For my boat, having some more weight up front is actually really helpful as far as getting on plane and such... but I see your point for a smaller craft. 

[PhishLI]

I've been running the same Interstate DCM0035 35AH sealed lead acid battery since early 2018 being charged between uses with a Battery Tender Plus. Our Jon boat is 12 ft, and between my brother, me, and all of our gear we're talking close to 500 lbs. We get 6 hours running time and have occasionally run the battery down churning through topped out weeds and it's still going strong today. My son in law has gone through 2 Mini Max 35AH batteries with the same dimensions as the Interstate over the same time frame driving a 8' Sundolphin using the same Minn Kota Endura C2 30. I'm not trying to discourage you from spending more for something better, but in your situation it's probably not really necessary. 

 

This quick-connect-disconnect harness makes life easy. Amazon.com: Rig Rite Manufacturing 400 Marine Trolling Motor Quick Disconnect : Sports & Outdoors

[Bankc]

I went with a cheap Chinese knock-off battery.  Specifically, a Weize 50Ah for my trolling motor on my kayak.  It's held up great so far!  No complaints after, I guess I'm coming up on 3 years now.  

 

What persuaded me to go that route was price.    I figured that if I bought a quality brand that was headquartered in the U.S., I'd still have to ship my old battery to them for a replacement and be without for a while.  And at nearly 3x the cost, I figured my "warranty" would be the money I saved and just buying a second one if this on ever failed.  And I could still buy a third replacement and pretty much break even with the big name brands.  But fortunately, I've never had a problem.  It's a gamble, but in my mind, it's a smart gamble.  They're all made in China, no matter what brand you get.  No one makes these batteries in the U.S.  Some companies might assemble them here in the U.S. from Chinese parts, but the guts always come from China. 

 

If you look up Will Prowse's DIY Solar YouTube channel, he has a bunch of tear-downs and reviews of several Amazon brands of lithium batteries.  Some are better than others, and he gives an honest assessment as to what you get with those brands.  He's geared towards the solar panel backup market, but it's the same batteries we use, so it's good advise.  It'll at least help you demystify all of those weird names a little bit. 

 

I also recommend the Noco chargers.  They're great little chargers and not crazy expensive.  I have a Noco Genius 5, which while small, it still charges my battery overnight.  You can use them for regular batteries too, which is handy, as they have modes for lithium, AGM, and lead acid. 

 

One more thing to note is that lithium batteries can pretty much be fully drained without damaging the battery.  They recommend you never drain a deep cycle lead acid battery below 50%.  So in essence, a 50Ah lithium battery has about the same amount of usable power as a 100Ah deep cycle lead acid.  But half the size and a tiny fraction of the weight (like 15lbs versus 65lbs or something). 

[Way2slow]

One misconception is draining a lead acid battery below 50% damages it.  Not really, it doesn't damage a deep cycle battery until you drain it below 25%.  What it does is reduce the cycle count.  If you discharged it to 25% most of the time, you would probably reduce the cycle count by 75%.  Meaning if it was a quality battery that might have a 500 cycle count could be reduced to as few as 150.  Note I said deep cycle, it does damage a cranking battery because they are not designed to be deep discharged.

However, you have this same thing with Lithium batteries.  Deep discharging below 25% can also damage them.   Their big advantage is the weight savings, a higher cycle count, and they maintain a higher performance level longer that lead acid which makes them appear to have a longer run time, but they just drop off a lot faster at the end of their charge where a lead acid slowly gets weaker as it discharges. 

No matter what math you use, 50Ah is 50Ah. be it lithium or lead acid, Gel cell or Alkaline, it does not matter what kind of battery it is, you just a more useful run time out of Lithium and Lead Acid.

Proper battery maintenance is the key to most any batteries life cycle.

[Bankc]

57 minutes ago, Way2slow said:

One misconception is draining a lead acid battery below 50% damages it.  Not really, it doesn't damage a deep cycle battery until you drain it below 25%.  What it does is reduce the cycle count.  If you discharged it to 25% most of the time, you would probably reduce the cycle count by 75%.  Meaning if it was a quality battery that might have a 500 cycle count could be reduced to as few as 150.  Note I said deep cycle, it does damage a cranking battery because they are not designed to be deep discharged.

However, you have this same thing with Lithium batteries.  Deep discharging below 25% can also damage them.   Their big advantage is the weight savings, a higher cycle count, and they maintain a higher performance level longer that lead acid which makes them appear to have a longer run time, but they just drop off a lot faster at the end of their charge where a lead acid slowly gets weaker as it discharges. 

No matter what math you use, 50Ah is 50Ah. be it lithium or lead acid, Gel cell or Alkaline, it does not matter what kind of battery it is, you just a more useful run time out of Lithium and Lead Acid.

Proper battery maintenance is the key to most any batteries life cycle.

You're not wrong.  I was being overly simplistic, because it does get kind of complicated if you really want to dig into the weeds.  Like it's not just a factor of how deep you drain a battery, but how fast you drain it, how long you leave it drained, and how you recharge it.  And the temperatures those those occur make a big difference too.  Pretty much any amount of discharge, be it 80%, 50%, 10%, whatever, will do some damage to the battery, even if it's statistically negligible.  Even just letting it sit and not using it will damage the battery, as time and chemical reactions don't go well together.  It's just a question of how much damage over how much time.  And to accurately give a response to that, you've got to establish a lot of parameters, baselines and blah, blah, blah. 

 

My general point is, most LiFePo4 batteries have an estimated cycle count of 5000 at an 80% depth of discharge.  While that's not completely drained, it's probably as far a most of us will routinely drain them.  That's almost 13.5 years worth of fishing every day!  Compare that to the 500 cycle count of a lead acid battery drained to only 50%, and you've got quite a difference.  At a dept of discharge of 80% on a lead acid, you're typically looking at a cycle count of around 200 on a lead acid or AGM.  At a 50% depth of discharge on a LiFePo4 battery, the cycle count is up around 20,000 to 30,000, which is way, WAY more than 5,000!  At those numbers, the battery will likely fail due to some other reason before being worn away due to reaching its cycle limit.  And you start to approach a cycle count of 100,000 at a depth of discharge of 25% or less!  But those figures really only matter in a lab or a setting where you'd be cycling the battery several times, daily.  Not in situations where you're going to be using a trolling motor. 

[Tennessee Boy]

@Way2slow I agree and I wish we could stop spreading this rumor  started by the lithium battery industry that a 100 ah lead acid battery is really only a 50 ah battery because you can’t discharge it below 50%.  The reality is discharging batteries is bad for them regardless of the chemistry used in the battery.   The deeper this discharge the more it shortens the life of the battery.   There are many variables.  This chart says it all.  Notice that there are no drastic changes at the 50% mark on this graph.  In fact the slope of the drop at 50% is steeper for lithium than it is for lead.

 

[BrianMDTX]

@Way2slow The tax is on any boat purchased from 2020 to the present if it is to be titled. My BoS shows $0.00, so I likely owe the tax of the difference of the purchase price of the P7 and the 285fpb. The P7 was $433.92 ($399.00 pre-tax) and the 285fpb I received is sold for $799.00, so at a minimum I would owe $25.00 in tax. But it looks like I need some sort of affidavit to support that. 

 

 

* REPLACEMENT DUE TO DEFECT - An affidavit is required stating what item(s) are being replaced by the dealer or manufacturer and the nature of the defect or circumstances why the item(s) was replaced.  Also, include whether the replacement was an even trade or the price of the item initially bought and the price of the item replaced.  This situation typically occurs when items are covered by a warranty.  The affidavit must be signed by the company/individual authorized to replace the item.  

[WRB]

I go to AAA for needed documents when selling a used boat.

Tom

[BrianMDTX]

 

@WRB I just spoke to Sea Eagle. They are sending me what I need listed as an even exchange for my original boat, so the tax will be minimal. 

[Way2slow]

We've just gotta luv those taxes.  Last year our county tax office hired a new person that was going to "straighten out or taxes".  I got a tax notice on 17 boats where she had gone to DNR and got a list of every boat I had registered since 1998, when I moved to this county. I've been doing battle with them since.  I finally got it down to the 24' Pontoon and 1436 Lowe jon boat.  Even then, I bought the 2001 Pontoon for $1,500 with no trailer, blown 90 Merc engine and needing restored, she valued it at $14,000.  I bought the 1436 at Walmart in 2006 for $550.  She valued it at $3,600.   I finally had to take pictures, all my documentation and everything else I could come up with to the County Tax Commissioner himself and let him know what I thought about his new tax accessor.  He and I paid her a visit and finally got it taken care of.  While trying to tax my jon boat, she didn't even know in the state of GA, a boat valued at less than $7,501 is not taxable, and that doesn't include the trailer because it's taxed by the DMV.

[Way2slow]

It just happens while we are talking about Lithium batteries, I have about 10, 18650 batteries I run in my flashlights I have been cycling.  Since I'm also pretty heavily invested in RC planes and helicopters also, I have some pretty good chargers.  About once or twice a year, I cycle my batteries by doing a deep discharge and recharge.  These are all high-quality Samsung 3,400Mah (not those highly exaggerated things off Ebay and Amazon and six of them are going on their fifth year.  All six of those were between 2,900 and 3,050Mah after charging.  Four are two years old that I bought thinking the first six would be going belly up soon, (guess I was wrong about that one) and they were between 3,100 and 3,250Mah.  

Needless to say, I don't think you would ever get that kind of service life out of any other type of battery.

I have 2S and 3S lithium's I run in my RC stuff that are eight years old and still have close to 75% capacity.  

However, I also properly maintain my batteries. 

[BrianMDTX]

Ok, after listening to all of you and doing some research, I ordered an Evo-Worthy 12V 50AH LiFePO4 battery and a 5 amp 12V smart charger from the same manufacturer. Weight is 12 lbs. which is a lot better than almost 50. Free shipping through Amazon Prime as well. 
 

I normally fish 4-6 hours at most so while the charger doesn’t recharge the battery fast, it will recharge it fast enough for my needs. And it will maintain the charge. 
 

We’ll see how it goes. Can’t beat the price. 

[TnRiver46]

I think the lighter weight will be perfect for the sea eagle , no complex equations needed for 4-6 hour trips 

[cmdrdick]

When I needed to ship a Dakota battery back, they said it was my responsibility to get it to them in Seattle. That's a long way from Florida, especially considering that neither Fedex nor UPS would accept it. You have to be or find a "Certified" Lithium battery shipper to transport these batteries in the USA. Well, guess what the certified carriers want to ship one 12V 100A Dakota battery, $1300.

Yep, that's not a mistake, thirteen Hundred dollars. And I would have to drive it 250 miles to Miami to get it to them.

Now, I don't know about the rest of you folks, but that was NOT something that Dakota told me when I bought the battery. So, do your diligence and ask the questions BEFORE you trust your hard earned bucks to any of these new age companies. They hide the details then stonewall you when you need help. I'm gonna look into this Florida Lithium company. They are a modest drive from me, and their price is half of what Dakota charged me for this similar battery. Live and learn.

Capt. R.A. "Dick" Wilson, retired

[Junger]

4 hours ago, cmdrdick said:

I'm gonna look into this Florida Lithium company. They are a modest drive from me, and their price is half of what Dakota charged me for this similar battery. Live and learn.

 

Love my dual purpose Florida Lithium starter battery, I just did a long weekend, fishing everyday from 7/3-7/7 in some god awful heat and the battery cranked my Merc200HP and ran all my electronics fine all day without issue.

[Foul-mouthedBass]

On 6/29/2024 at 10:26 PM, gimruis said:

If you can afford a lithium battery, I would go with that. Noco makes a pretty good charger for them too.

 

I can’t comment on which exact lithium battery, as I don’t own one. I would avoid the cheap Chinese knock offs on Amazon though. Hopefully someone who has a quality lithium battery will chime in with a review for you.

I bought a 35ah mighty max battery (Amazon) it has worked extremely well for me it's going 5 years strong never let me down 

 

On 6/29/2024 at 10:26 PM, gimruis said:

 

 

On 6/29/2024 at 10:26 PM, gimruis said:

If you can afford a lithium battery, I would go with that. Noco makes a pretty good charger for them too.

 

I can’t comment on which exact lithium battery, as I don’t own one. I would avoid the cheap Chinese knock offs on Amazon though. Hopefully someone who has a quality lithium battery will chime in with a review for you.

I bought a 35ah mighty max battery (Amazon) it has worked extremely well for me it's going 5 years strong never let me down 

 

On 6/29/2024 at 10:26 PM, gimruis said:

 

 

I bought a 35ah battery off Amazon or eBay I can't remember what one but I used that with a endura Maxx 55 lb thrust and it's been going strong 5 years. As far as charging I didn't use a onboard charger I bought a battery tender it was like 40 bucks maybe 50. That setup has been great for me so far even if the battery would quit tomorrow it was well worth it. It would last me 6 hours with moderate use it never died on me. I never pushed it all the way to the limit.. the longest I fished was probably 8 hours and it still got me back to the dock

[gim]

Ya the problem is when you need a warranty replacement. Trying to address that with a Chinese company through Amazon would be a logistical nightmare.

 

Risk vs reward

[MN Fisher]

9 minutes ago, gimruis said:

Ya the problem is when you need a warranty replacement. Trying to address that with a Chinese company through Amazon would be a logistical nightmare.

 

Risk vs reward

That's why I'll stick with Mighty Max when I upgrade to Lithium...but purchased through Home Depot, not Amazon. That way if there's an issue, I just return it to the Home Depot that's 12 miles away.