Final tube question - what is the difference in action between these two jigheads?

[Ohioguy25]

I felt this deserved a separate thread as my decision has come down to these two specific designs. I want to get the absolute best action possible, and I’m completely clueless about how size/shape of these jigheads influences the fall, action. Both are labeled “stupid” heads but one is a round ball head while the other has a traditional tube head. 

 

Can someone please explain the difference to me in what sort of action these impart or how they might otherwise influence the bait’s performance? The ball head looks to be a large EWG shank whereas the regular stupid head is a shorter shank, is there a difference here?

[Team9nine]

Should get better glide action out of the top head because more of the weight is transitioned down the shank of the hook and begins just slightly under/behind the eye. Ballheads would be a bit more Texas-rig like - a more direct drop because the weight is all focused right at the top of the head around the eye (more forward) and is spherical. 

[Ohioguy25]

1 minute ago, Team9nine said:

Should get better glide action out of the top head because more of the weight is transitioned down the shank of the hook and segins just slightly under/behind the eye. Ballheads would be a bit more Texas-rig like - a more direct drop because the weight is all focused right at the top of the head around the eye (more forward) and is spherical. 

Ahh gotcha, so tubes get their spiral specifically from that cone shaped weight?

[Team9nine]

26 minutes ago, Ohioguy25 said:

Ahh gotcha, so tubes get their spiral specifically from that cone shaped weight?

 

They tend to spiral better with insert heads fished with open hooks, not rigged weedless. Lighter weight heads and lighter wire hooks on lighter line help in that regard. But you'll still get good gliding action with the top heads pictured compared to more head heavy riggings IMO.

[Ohioguy25]

29 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

 

They tend to spiral better with insert heads fished with open hooks, not rigged weedless. Lighter weight heads and lighter wire hooks on lighter line help in that regard. But you'll still get good gliding action with the top heads pictured compared to more head heavy riggings IMO.

So traditional stupid rig hooks like those on top are my best option for a weedless tube presentation?

[Team9nine]

10 minutes ago, Ohioguy25 said:

So traditional stupid rig hooks like those on top are my best option for a weedless tube presentation?

In open water, around light cover, or say skipping docks, probably. If you're flipping tubes in heavy brush or weeds, I’d go more traditional TR of some sort. 

[Ohioguy25]

19 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

In open water, around light cover, or say skipping docks, probably. If you're flipping tubes in heavy brush or weeds, I’d go more traditional TR of some sort. 

I thought the jigs in the top image are the traditional stupid tube heads, while the bottom ones are just ball jigs with a wide gap?

[Team9nine]

1 hour ago, Ohioguy25 said:

I thought the jigs in the top image are the traditional stupid tube heads, while the bottom ones are just ball jigs with a wide gap?

They are…just saying they aren’t the only way to rig and fish a tube “weedless.”

[Glenn]

 

 

 

[Ohioguy25]

2 hours ago, Team9nine said:

They are…just saying they aren’t the only way to rig and fish a tube “weedless.”

So for Rocky river fishing exclusively, which of the two jigs pictured would you go with?

[Team9nine]

49 minutes ago, Ohioguy25 said:

So for Rocky river fishing exclusively, which of the two jigs pictured would you go with?

Top - the lighter you can get away with, the better. Will vary with depth, cover and current.

[papajoe222]

1 hour ago, Ohioguy25 said:

So for Rocky river fishing exclusively, which of the two jigs pictured would you go with?

Of the two, yes.

The ball head has a 90 degree line tie which will give the tube more of a spiral and the 60 degree (stupid head) give it more of a gliding fall although it does make a wide spiral.

I use internal weights for a weedless presentation that will still spiral. Texas rigging, with a bullet weight doesn't give a tube that action, but is a great option for dragging a tube on the bottom.

[Ohioguy25]

5 hours ago, papajoe222 said:

Of the two, yes.

The ball head has a 90 degree line tie which will give the tube more of a spiral and the 60 degree (stupid head) give it more of a gliding fall although it does make a wide spiral.

I use internal weights for a weedless presentation that will still spiral. Texas rigging, with a bullet weight doesn't give a tube that action, but is a great option for dragging a tube on the bottom.

Sorry but which action are you saying will invite more strikes - 90 degree tie w the spiral or 60 degree tie with the glide?

[Ohioguy25]

10 hours ago, Team9nine said:

Top - the lighter you can get away with, the better. Will vary with depth, cover and current.

The poster below you mentions a spiral vs glide, which is preferable?

[Team9nine]

1 hour ago, Ohioguy25 said:

The poster below you mentions a spiral vs glide, which is preferable?

Guessing most anglers might pick spiral, all things being equal. But, you need depth to perform a spiral, and current won’t help, either. Then there is the greater line twist, and avoiding snags on the rocky bottom - all reasons I suggested a lighter glide type rigging in your case.

[Ohioguy25]

On 6/27/2024 at 10:08 AM, Team9nine said:

Guessing most anglers might pick spiral, all things being equal. But, you need depth to perform a spiral, and current won’t help, either. Then there is the greater line twist, and avoiding snags on the rocky bottom - all reasons I suggested a lighter glide type rigging in your case.

Now I’m torn 😭

[Deephaven]

Your best bet is to tie one of each on two rods and fish them both.  Adjust the eye exit location a bit as well and observe how they behave in the water you fish.  I personally never use a ball head as that is not what I throw tubes for.  It surely could be the hot ticket, I just won't be the one to find that out.

[Ohioguy25]

On 6/27/2024 at 10:08 AM, Team9nine said:

Guessing most anglers might pick spiral, all things being equal. But, you need depth to perform a spiral, and current won’t help, either. Then there is the greater line twist, and avoiding snags on the rocky bottom - all reasons I suggested a lighter glide type rigging in your case.

Is the only way to avoid line twists with the spiral action to use a barrel swivel?

[Team9nine]

32 minutes ago, Ohioguy25 said:

Is the only way to avoid line twists with the spiral action to use a barrel swivel?

My opinion - a barrel swivel won’t help much, and may actually inhibit the spiral action some. Usually you fish a day with the outfit/tube tied direct, then unwind all the twist before the next trip. But wouldn’t hurt to try that setup just to see what happens. Some of this probably depends on your line choices, too.

[Deephaven]

Throw it in braid and before leaving the lake cut it off and pull a bunch of loose line for a while behind the boat.  Wil fix itself.

[Ohioguy25]

15 hours ago, Team9nine said:

My opinion - a barrel swivel won’t help much, and may actually inhibit the spiral action some. Usually you fish a day with the outfit/tube tied direct, then unwind all the twist before the next trip. But wouldn’t hurt to try that setup just to see what happens. Some of this probably depends on your line choices, too.

Say no more, unavoidable line twist is reason enough for me to completely avoid the ball head. Sounds like I will be going with the traditional stupid too. Thank you!

 

Is Secret Lures stupid tube good? Curious why they have this weird 3.7” size, I’m assuming so you have to use their stuff, or does their 3/0 hook fit a 3.5” pro coffee tube just fine? 

[Team9nine]

Their jig heads are matched to their bait…probably by design and intent. I have fished with some of the original local guys who developed this rig before it became popular and known as the “ Stupid Tube,” as well as those responsible for its namesake and popularity later on, and it was always a matter of trying to match jig head to available tube bodies. Always a variety of lengths, thicknesses, and differences in tail to body ratios with tubes. The only thing in common is the tubes used were nearly always bigger tubes in general (length and thickness). A couple local guys even started pouring their own tubes of the right length and thickness to meet the needs of, and match, the available jig heads before everyone (companies) started producing them. 

[Buzzbaiter]

The difference in action between the two heads is probably negligible, especially in current. A tube rigged on a ball head will have some glide, whereas a tube on a traditional tube head (with the lead molded along the length of the shaft) will glide a bit more. The reason for this is that the weight is more evenly distributed throughout the body, causing a fall with a longer horizontal movement. More horizontal movement means more opportunity to spiral. 
 

However, the difference in fall/glide/spiral between an elongate head and a ball head is only noticeable in deeper water without strong current. Even then, the elongate head will only produce a longer glide if the lead is spread throughout the body. Looking at both of the heads you’ve attached, they both differ in shape but the weight placement is right up front in both. In other words, they’ll probably fall about the same. 
 

I use ball heads and tube heads interchangeably, and have not noticed much of a difference in action or catch rate. It’s worth noting that I almost exclusively fish tubes for smallmouth in shallow rivers, less than 6’.

 

TL;DR: Just pick one, they’ll both catch bass. It’s the tube and the angler that fool a fish. The head is only there to poke them.

[Ohioguy25]

59 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

Their jig heads are matched to their bait…probably by design and intent. I have fished with some of the original local guys who developed this rig before it became popular and known as the “ Stupid Tube,” as well as those responsible for its namesake and popularity later on, and it was always a matter of trying to match jig head to available tube bodies. Always a variety of lengths, thicknesses, and differences in tail to body ratios with tubes. The only thing in common is the tubes used were nearly always bigger tubes in general (length and thickness). A couple local guys even started pouring their own tubes of the right length and thickness to meet the needs of, and match, the available jig heads before everyone (companies) started producing them. 

What size stupid jig head would be best for 3.5” coffee pro tubes?

[Team9nine]

25 minutes ago, Ohioguy25 said:

What size stupid jig head would be best for 3.5” coffee pro tubes?

No idea. We used to throw a tube or two in our pocket when heading to the tackle shops and match them up with the right heads in store. Everyone’s jig/hook sizes are slightly different, as are the tube dimensions (body length/tail length). Ideally, you literally hold one up to the other to see how well the fit is. It’s trial and error. Once you find a good match, buy a bunch and don’t deviate.