Qaulity and Overkill

[KYbass1276]

Rw started a post on price points of rods and reels which got me to thinking of where does the price your paying for qaulity and just overpaying for it start and stop.  For example I think that once you get over the $100 dollar range for a reel your actually starting to get qaulity reels, So I'm takeing a guess a opinion really that $100 would be the starting point of paying for qaulity and would run up to around $400 before I would consider it overkill   I'm taking a stab here at the rods too I'm going to say that $150 would be a good starting point for qaulity could possably be a little lower.  A stopping point for amount spent on rods I really don't have a guess for.   I think what really got me thinking was looking through my new BPS catalog at chronarchs and happend to look over at the next page and seeing the shimano Calais 4X8 DC at $649.99 which has a digital brake control system, which personally I can't see the point in that but none the less I' think thats overkill for myself but might not be for others.   I'm just curious to what some of you guys think.  I'm not a expert by far  I'm just looking for your thoughts.    

[Marty]

For example I think that once you get over the $100 dollar range for a reel your actually starting to get qaulity reels, So I'm takeing a guess a opinion really that $100 would be the starting point of paying for qaulity and would run up to around $400 before I would consider it overkill

It's like beauty, it's in the eye of the beholder. I'm very pleased with the quality of my $50 Daiwa Regal-Zs and various $40 rods. Maybe ignorance is bliss, but I never say to myself, I really need more expemsive equipment.

[KYbass1276]

This is what I'm talking about everyone has different opinions on where the price they pay and feel they getting a qaulity product differs.   What I might pay for something is obviously different from what you would pay.  Theres nothing wrong each others opinions,  thats what I'm looking for different opinions   Thanks for contributing marty hopefully threre will be more

[Raul]

Personally I would not want to fish with something that 's smarter than me, like a digitally cast controlled reel..

[shimanogloomis man]

to me a 50.00 baitaster isnt going to cut it, especially if someone is new to a baitcasting setup cause its just not going to cast right plus a crapy brake system, im a firm believer u get what u pay for,I think if u spend at least 100.00 min on a baitcaster your ganna save yourself a lot of future problems,now 650 for the dc calais is a little overboard but if i had the money to drop hell yea id buy it, but as for spinning reels if u spend 50 bucks or more u should be fine, ill tell ya my cuz has a sedona (shimano)and what a reel for the money.i have a stradic 4 now that i love but will be buying a twinpower mg 2500 cant wait ;D

[crank it]

Yea I agree you get what you pay for me personally I would rather spend more on my rods than my reels. but for baitcasters I think you need to spend over 100.00 to get a good reel. I learned on a cheap one and it did the job but when I got a shimano citca man what a difference. but I guess is all in what you personally consider good equiptment and how much you fish and what you want to spend.

[fish-fighting-illini]

I'd say $60 for a spinning reel is about the minimum starting with the Pflueger president. Next level goes to $79 for PFL Medalist and Shimano Symetre. I personaly couldn't justify more than $180 for a reel of any sort just due to all the other things that the money would take away from. If all the kids were grown and gone it might be a different tune. Due to a late in life double surprise package I've got another 15yrs left before even thinking about it! LOL

As far as rods I don't have any experience with high end rods but $100 would probably be my top limit possibly $150. If it required higher than that and I might as well go back to golf for the exercise.

[FishTank]

When it comes to a man and his toys there is no such thing as overkill.   ;D ;D ;D ;D  Just kidding.

I have been lucky.  I was able to pick up a new (previous model) Curado for $45, a Calcutta for $30, and a Quantum Energy 20 Pti for $80.  I would hate to compare any one of them to a full retail priced $50-$100 reel.

I hope in the future I can find some quality reels at basement bargain prices again.  I just wish I could have the same luck with rods.

[Crabcakes]

Thats a line drawn by the individual person based on his tackle preferences, financial situation, and personal opinions.

[senile1]

I agree with the concept of "you get what you pay for," but only up to a point.  Once you leave the bargain basement and are purchasing mid-range to high end equipment I believe that "you get what you pay for" is a bit simplistic.  At the risk of offending every Harley rider on this site, I will say that Harley-Davidson motorcycles are the perfect example of this.  I have ridden motorcycles since the early 70s and raced motocross in my teens.  At one time, I read four motorcycle magazines cover to cover every month and I used to do all the mechanical work on my motorcycles.  During that time, Harleys have never been close to being the fastest motorcycle, the best handling motorcycle, the most powerful motorcycle, or the longest lasting motorcycle.  Why then do they command the highest prices and the best resale value?  In a word . . . . . image.  They sound cool, look cool, and they are marketed as individualistic and against the grain.  If they are so against the grain, why is everyone buying them?  The success of Harley's marketing is so phenomenal that the Japanese motorcycle manufacturers have tried to copy the Harley mystique with their own big V-twins.  None of these bikes perform to the standard set by other Japanese and European bikes but the almighty dollar is what business is about and these bikes sell by the truckload.  

Are they the best for the money?  If you are a performance afficionado like me, the answer is no way.  If you like a solid bike that looks cool, sounds cool, and gets attention then maybe they are the best for you.  Are they the best performing bike for the money?  Absolutely not.  (For years, Harleys have been awesome in flat track racing, due to the tremendous torque produced by the long stroke V-twin engines.  This successful performance hasn't transferred well to their street bikes in most instances.  The recent introduction of the V-rod in 2002 gave Harley one production motorcycle that could be considered high performing but you can get the same performance for a lot less money in other bikes.)

I think the same can be said for high end fishing equipment compared to some of the best mid-range equipment.  The high price doesn't justify the meager benefits received over mid-range equipment.  So I buy mid-range rods and reels:  $115 - $200 for reels and $110 to approximately $200 for rods.  I am open to being persuaded, however.    

[ww2farmer]

I agree with an above post.........$60 will buy you a great spinning reel (my favorite the pflueger presidant, shimano shara, daiwa regal all are good reels) but quality baitcasters can be had for less than $100. The BPS Extreme, and Rick Clunn models are both great values at $79 and $99 and have the same brakes/casting controls as most $200 reels. Also the Daiwa Procaster 100H ($70) Team Daiwa Advantage ($100) use Daiwas time proven mag force cast control. The Pflueger Trion also ($100) has the same brakes as the higher end president. And lets not forget the ever popular and relaible round Abu-Garcias.....most of the basic ones sell for less than $100 as well.

As far as rods go.........well I fish with $100 BPS extremes, $80 BPS Bionic blades, $50 BPS cranking sticks, and love each and every one of them. The most expensive rod I have ever owned was a Fenwick Techna AV, which I sold to buy more BPS rods. Before that I pretty much used $30 Berkley Lightning rods.........which I still think are a good rod. I am not embarassed, or fishing any less effectivly than I would if I had $300 rods..............but I will say this every time I go to BPS I drool over the latest and greatest high end stuff, some day I will get off the wallet and buy a high end rod and reel.

[Alpster]

If you are a performance afficionado like me....

...I am open to being persuaded, however.    

senile1,

I too am a motorcycle afficionado and I agree with everything you said about the hype of Harley Davidson, however I ride a Honda GL1800 Goldwing. Though it is comparable in price, it out performs every Harley ever made (the V-Rod being the only exception). Note the V-Rod engine is made by Porsche and not HD. The goldwing is not about hype, it is (at least in my opinion) the ultimate in a touring motorcycle and easily worth the rather high price. Nothing compares with it (JMHO) 1800cc 6 cylinder, electronic cruise control, XM radio/w 240 watt amp, CB radio, heated seats & grips, my daughter watches DVDs on the back seat and routinely sleeps on the road.

I say all this to say... that although some companies win with hype, there really are those who perform beyond our expectations.

Personally I would not want to fish with something that 's smarter than me, like a digitally cast controlled reel..

Raul,

You should try one before you make that judgement. I think you would be impressed. I read your posts often and I admire your knowledge & experience. My DC is an engineering marvel and worth every penny to me. JMHO

Ronnie

[kennyh]

I agree with you Senile 1, Harley has done an unbelievable job markleting their products and developing customer loyalty. Think of it: what other manufactures have such insanely loyal customers that would tatoo their company name on their body. Actually I was thinking about getting 'Pflueger' with on my back but then I sobered up and revisited the idea.

A lot of what's popular and what sells the most is a result of marketing.

How many of you guys years ago bought a 'dancin eel' cause Bill Dance said so? Sure you can pay a little and get junk, pay a lot and get quality. But is a $10 spinnerbait that much better than a $6 one?

[RiskKid.]

I think overkill is different for each of us depending on finances and how much you enjoy owning expesive gear. Expensive gear is always nice and "helps" one to be more successful but the fisherman's skill is always going to have the biggest effect on catching fish.

The bait monkey told me there is no such thing as overkill regarding fishing stuff  ;D

[KYbass1276]

I'd say $60 for a spinning reel is about the minimum starting with the Pflueger president. Next level goes to $79 for PFL Medalist and Shimano Symetre. I personaly couldn't justify more than $180 for a reel of any sort just due to all the other things that the money would take away from. If all the kids were grown and gone it might be a different tune. Due to a late in life double surprise package I've got another 15yrs left before even thinking about it! LOL

As far as rods I don't have any experience with high end rods but $100 would probably be my top limit possibly $150. If it required higher than that and I might as well go back to golf for the exercise.

Well one way you can help offset your expenses if your open to it is save copper and cash it in.  I know it sounds corny but with copper selling a $2.10 a pound it soon adds up.   For instance here is a good example at work they have added on to the building and had new phone, elec and alarm wires installled these guys where just throwing all there scrap in a pile to be thrown away that is untill I asked if I could have it.   Well I saved and still saveing it untill I have enough to get what I want which is a new reel that happens to be a chronarch.   Heres the deal though I have gift cards and plenty enough money to just go and buy it and the other things I want. But I figure by doing it this way I can get even more by using the money I get from copper I can get the reel and then use my money for a new rod or what have you.   As it is right know I'm guessing I have enough to cover all but $50 dollars of the reels cost in copper.  It might sound stupid to some but I want everyone to keep thinking that ecspeacily the ones who just throw it away,    By the way if anyone does do it always ask even if you know it's getting thrown away.  With copper thefts on the rise it's always best to ask

[dodgeguy]

i think over $200 for a rod and over $200 for a reel is ridiculous.$400 for a combo would be my absolute max.the price of fishing equipment has become absurd and we are to blame.

[cart7t]

Good point Senile.

In the TV business, Sony was easily the Mercedes of Televisions at one time.  It was far and away the best. Cost wise, they were nearly double what the competition cost.  They were worth it.....at one time. Competition has a way of evening the playing field.  Sony is no longer the Top of Class by a mile. In fact they've been slipping the past 10 years and the competition has pulled even.

The same could be said for fishing reels and rods.  Lots of people don't remember when Shimano first came into the marketplace. The reels were noisy and quite frankly, sort of junky when compared to the standards of the day, Garcia's and Daiwa's.  That's obviously changed but anyone trying to tell you that you're not really fishing if you're not fishing a Shimano or a Loomis or St. Croix rod is just kidding himself and you.

The playing field has been leveled.  At the $100 mark, most of those reels in that category are too close to call.  The same at $150 or $200.  It's all in the details at any price range.  What reel feels best in your hand. Which is most comfortable or has the most features.

There's one thing I've noticed in the year and a half of selling used and new reels and rods that I've learned,  Bass fishermen are never content with just one rod or reel (rarely) nor is the purchase for a lifetime.  Somewhere down the line something new comes along that you must have.  In the time that you own that $100 reel or $150 reel or $200 reel or rod, it probably won't break regardless of manufacturer.  In fact, you can spend less than those amounts and still have a reel or rod that will get you through several seasons.  I'd say most anglers are turning their equipment over every 5-7 years or so or sooner.  Buying a reel anymore that'll last a lifetime is silly because few people will want to keep them that long and in any case, 10-15 years (or sooner) down the road you won't be able to get parts for it if it breaks anyway.

I'm always a little dismayed when I see newbie anglers on here with a couple hundred dollars or so to spend on a R & R combo and the advice given is often dis-heartening.  Telling said newbie that they need to drop the entire wad on a single rod and reel is bogus and here's why.

1. The guy/gal is new to fishing.  He/she has no experience in rods or reels.  During their time fishing, they will form their own opinions of what rod and reel works best for them.  Down the road they will make the change (like I said, the average fishermen changes equipment every 5 years-7 or so).

2. Telling them to put all their eggs in one basket by explaining that a R & R combo is not good for beginners or for fishing or it will make their first rod owning experience less satisfying is bogus.  I can go out right now and buy a BPS Extreme baitcaster on sale for $50 and match it with a Bionic blade for $50 or even a Lightning rod for $35 and have a very nice beginners rod and reel that will easily last 5 years.  For that $200 amount that new angler can get both a medium and a med/hvy outfit.  That's what will make his experience more enjoyable. Having the correct rod and reels for the types of presentations he'll be trying, NOT one outfit that blew the whole load because someone told him that unless he blew the whole load on one rod or on such and such brand, you ain't fishing.

3. I'll grant you that spending $30-50 bucks retail on a new baitcaster will probably get you a less than desireable reel for long term but remember, this angler will probably change equipment in the first 5 years anyway as his experience level grows or something more to his liking comes along. As for castability?  I test drove a used Bill Dance Quantum reel once that I later sold. The thing was a $50 retail BPS special.  The thing was definitely just as easy to cast as a Shimano and....gulp..... I actually caught my PB, over 8lbs on the thing while using it.    ;D   Yes, it didn't feel as solid as a garcia or a shimano or a Pflueger but for crissakes, the reel isn't supposed to be one for the ages.  You use it, get a few years out of it and move onto better.  

JMO of course.  

[Guest the_muddy_man]

Hey Fellas This is simple You like to fish,you work for your money YOU BUY WHAT MAKES YOU HAPPAY AND I BUY WHAT MAKES ME HAPPY  THEN EVERYBODY IS HAPPY  HAPPY Isnt that why we all started fishing anyway  

[Catt]

High dollar tackle will not make you a better angler

Case in point

Rick Clunn uses BPS reels & rods

KVD uses Quantum reels & rods

Hank Parker uses Abu Garcia reels & Berkley rods

So you're saying they are less of an angler because of the tackle choices?

[fish-fighting-illini]

Man some well thought out posts that don't all agree but awesome opinions.

[Grey Wolf]

Would I buy a 1000.00 rod and reel set up ? You bet !

Would it make me a better fisherman ?  NO !

Why would I buy them ? Because I can !

Am I crazy ? Maybe !

Seriously most people buy what they consider has the best value for the money . This is called common sence !

[flechero]

High dollar tackle will not make you a better angler

Case in point

Rick Clunn uses BPS reels & rods

KVD uses Quantum reels & rods

Hank Parker uses Abu Garcia reels & Berkley rods

So you're saying they are less of an angler because of the tackle choices?

You are partially correct... high dollar tackle will not always make you a better angler... but in many cases it WILL contribute to better catches. Put an IMX or GLX in the hands of someone who buys their worm rods at walmart and see their eyes light up on the first cast I've seen it many times and I was one of them many years ago. I don't catch that many more fish than I used to but I consistently catch bigger fish than I used to with cheap rods. I say with complete confidence that I feel more subtle bites than I did back then and my deep water fishing improved tremendously- instantly.

To the pros... do you know for certain that the rods they use are rack rods? I bet you don't! Sure, they may use a few for spinnerbaits or crankbaits but I'll bet some big money that they aren't using anything off the BPS rack for worm and jig fishing. Do you have any idea how easy it is to match any of the rods you listed with only a decal and thread color? I can make GLX lightning rods if you provide the decals. ...lol Even the All Star plant has a seperate room where sponsored angler's rods are built... but the decals and thread colors are the same as the rack stuff.... been there and toured it.

[roadwarrior]

The "best value for the money" is an excellent motto to live by, but we often violate this principal for the things we are passionate about. In economics it is referred to as the "law of diminishing returns." For each aditional dollar spent, the value of the gain is proportionately less.

When applied to fishing equipment, it's hard to quantify the dollar value of the "fun factor."

[flechero]

In economics it is referred to as the "law of diminishing returns." For each aditional dollar spent, the value of the gain is proportionately less.

So true.  Fishing rods are the perfect example of this... the $100 difference in IMX and GLX is not very big, and so not too many people can justify it.  But the difference is there.

[Catt]

flechero

I have seen what's in Rick Clunn's, KVD, & Hank Parker's boat

I have been in Larry Nixon's & Tommy Martin's boat

I'll say it again in 2006 I caught

Total Bass Caught: 1056

Total days on the water: 66

Average daily catch: 16

Bass under 14: 275

Bass over 14: 781

Bass over 5 lbs: 57

Bass over 6 lbs: 31

Bass over 7 lbs: 9

Bass over 8 lbs: 3

Bass over 9 lbs: 1

Double Digits: 0

All were caught on CastAway rods

High dollar rods are super sensitive in the hands of some one who knows what they are feeling for.