I’m about to give up on braid —> leader

[Drawdown]

If I were to switch to straight fluoro or mono, would I have less issues, other than obviously not having to tie a leader knot after breaking off on a snag?

 

 

On spinning tackle, the wind knots can be brutal. Line dig after snags seems to tee up a nasty knot on the next cast.

Perhaps the braid backing also doesn’t tolerate a less-than-full spool remotely well.
As though you’re counting down until the angle of the line contacting the rim of the spool causes a knot that makes a backlash on a baitcaster look like child’s play.

 

That said, it’s about all I have fished on spinning tackle the past couple years. Love the sensitivity. Hate not fishing as much because I’m fiddling with line—or feeling like I have to bring two rods every time I just want to fish a pond.

[dodgeguy]

Trash the leader and fish straight braid.why on earth would u get rid of the braid. Line visibility is b.s. I've never seen line dig on a spinning reel. Use 20 lb quality braid and u should be fine. Don't pull on snags.wrap line around a 1 inch diameter wood dowel and pull. Also take the slack out before reeling in line by raising your rod tip. suggest Vicious no fade braid

[r83srock]

Yes ☝️

[Junk Fisherman]

What knot are you using between the braid and leader?

 

[BrianMDTX]

I fish 20 lb. braid to 8 lb. mono leader and never have wind knot issues. With either Sufix 832 or Seguar Smackdown. 
 

Why do you think you are getting so many wind knots?

[FishTank]

I have been fishing braid to leader on spinning tackle for quite some time now without too many issues. Wind has been my worst enemy.  I always close the bail by hand and then pull the line tight on the spool just after the bait hits the water. 

 

I think it is crucial to know what line you are using, what reel and rod, what knots and what lures. 

[gim]

I occasionally get wind knots too from line twist on my spinning reels. I watch for them though and can often spot them, and then straighten/pull them out before they become a bigger issue.

 

There is no perfect setup here with fishing line. A bait caster has its issues too with back lash. It’s inevitable. The key is to not allowing it to get so bad that you can’t fix it on the spot.

55 minutes ago, Drawdown said:

If I were to switch to straight fluoro or mono, would I have less issues

Straight fluorocarbon on a spinning reel would seem like a disaster to me. I would try mono before fluoro. You’ll definitely notice a lack of sensitivity compared to braided line though, and you won’t get very good hook sets because of the stretch. I use 6 pound mono on my walleye spinning setups and also for panfishing. That is not a lot of casting and retrieving though, it’s mostly either slip bobber or vertical fishing with plastics.

[BrianMDTX]

I went to braid-to-leader mainly as I tired of either respooling fresh mono or trying to remove line twist and coiled line. And I absolutely, positively, without question love braid-to-leader on a spinning reel. 
 

One thing I always do is after a cast, I make sure the line is tight after I close the bail and start to reel in any slack. Like I mentioned, I rarely if ever have issues with wind knots. There’s something going on that’s causing a problem other than just braid-to-leader use. 

[MN Fisher]

I did run straight FC on a couple of my spinning rigs...for a while. Now I'm braid-to-leader on all my spinning rigs - even the panfish rigs. I wouldn't go back.

[VTFan]

I'm currently using 30 lb braid to 20 lb fluro on both my spinning rods.  Occasionally I will go to all braid (Hi-Viz yellow) and use a black sharpie to dye the last 8 to 10 ft of line.  Maybe the fish don't pay any attention to line color, who knows for sure but I figure it can't hurt. Anyway, only once in a blue moon will I get a wind knot...oh...and I'm using Power Pro braid.  

[Tennessee Boy]

10 hours ago, Drawdown said:

not having to tie a leader knot after breaking off on a snag?

When you break off,  the knot at your lure should break off 95% of the time if you tie a good braid to leader knot and your leader has a lower test than the braid.

 

10 hours ago, Drawdown said:

wind knots can be brutal

Wind knots are caused by line twist.  You are probably spooling the line on the reel incorrectly.  Let all of your line out without a lure behind the boat and then reel it in.  This will remove the twist.  If you are not in a boat you can walk it out on land.

 

10 hours ago, Drawdown said:

Perhaps the braid backing also doesn’t tolerate a less-than-full spool remotely well.

Regardless of what type of line you use,  always completely fill the spool.

 

[JackstrawIII]

I agree with everyone else's comments. Braid to leader with an FG knot has never failed me. Have had some wind issues with very light braid, but 10+ has been totally fine. Start with 20 or 30 if you're nervous about it. 

 

The advice to close the bail by hand and to avoid tons of slack in the line will be a game changer. 

[gim]

5 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

Let all of your line out without a lure behind the boat and then reel it in.  This will remove the twist.

That’s not going to remove line twist. As long as the reel is turning, the line is going on twisted with a spinning reel.

 

The only way to put line on a spinning reel without any twist is to remove the bail, turn it sideways, and spin it on from the spool. Cabelas does this for me with their tornado line winder every March.

[Drawdown]

15 hours ago, FishTank said:

I think it is crucial to know what line you are using, what reel and rod, what knots and what lures. 

I began using 15lb braid to 8lb Seaguar Red Label leader on a 2000 BPS Carbonlite on a Shimano Convergence ML. Since dropping the braided line to 10lb too 6lb P-Line fluoro leader, I’ve had even less problems with that setup.

 

My Medium rods are where I’ve had more issues: started with 20lb braid on a 2500 Daiwa Regal (and another rod with an Exceler) reel and 8lb Seaguar Red Label. Almost like the 20lb line was too coarse to cast smoothly. No idea what kind—from

a bulk roll at the bait shop.

 

15 hours ago, BrianMDTX said:

Why do you think you are getting so many wind knots?

At first I made the mistake of reeling the (Alberto) knot into the reel. Then, I think I tried casting too hard. More recently my nephew will sometimes borrow my tackle and cast waaaaay too hard. Almost guaranteed to get a nasty wind knot within 10 minutes no matter whose setup he’s using.

 

I tend to use a Palomar knot at the hook—and it’s strong enough that I too often have the Alberto fail first. The result is line dig in the reel. Can I get a recommendation for a different fluoro hook knot? I certainly know the Clinch isn’t an option—decapitates itself when the fish is close to the boat/shore.

[Team9nine]

A few things I’ve learned over the years with braid on spinning outfits; not all reels/spools handle the same line the same way - some reels are just better at line management. Also, not all braid line brands work equally on the same outfit - some lines are just better handling lines. So playing with a couple different setups, both line and rod/reel in the beginning can be helpful until you find a good working combination.

 

On the knot issue, generally speaking, direct connect knots (to your lure) are generally stronger than line-to-line knots, which is why it is common to have the leader knot break first in many instances. The balance is to either tie a stronger leader knot (FG, Alberto, ‘J’ knot, etc.), or a slightly weaker connecting knot to your lure. In some instances, the rate of pulling a snagged bait seems to make a difference - slow and steadily increasing pressure until something gives seems to offer the best outcome versus a faster or hard jerk to get something to break…FWIW.

[Bird]

I wouldn't give up just yet, take some of the great advice and see if it helps.

I'm mostly 15# braid to 8# leader but have a few with a 12# leader.

The Alberto knot proves stronger than the Palomar on 99% of snags leaving behind the leader to retie.

 

Something I try to avoid is casting into the wind but admittedly it's worse with baitcasters.

Good luck 🤞 

[WRB]

What are the causes of braid wind knots?

1. Cause with spinning reels is the line has a loop caused by not closing the bail manually. Using the reel to close the bail picks up loose line forming loop that the line retrieved on top of the loop with come off the next cast in mess of twisted looped line.

2. All spinning reels operate the same way by wrapping line onto a stationary spool via the bail rotating twisting line with every rotation. The length if the spool and bail roller design  helps to reduce how tight the twist is. What some anglers call wind knots is actually twisted line wrapping around itself forming a knot.

You untwist the line by running the only without anything tied on behind your boat at walking speed for a few minutes. I used this method for decades when owning a boat.

Now without a boat untwisting line required walking off 30 yard of line without anything tied on. Using a Terry towel wetted with water then put the line in fold near the rod tip, close the bail by hand.

I hold the line between the reel and 1st guide to apply light pressure as the the line is retrieved through the folded wet towel. This works OK but not as good as the boat method.

With FC line use line conditioner KVD if over night or Tangle Free while fishing, avoid Reel Magic.

Tom

[dodgeguy]

10 hours ago, VTFan said:

I'm currently using 30 lb braid to 20 lb fluro on both my spinning rods.  Occasionally I will go to all braid (Hi-Viz yellow) and use a black sharpie to dye the last 8 to 10 ft of line.  Maybe the fish don't pay any attention to line color, who knows for sure but I figure it can't hurt. Anyway, only once in a blue moon will I get a wind knot...oh...and I'm using Power Pro braid.  

So if ur not getting bites on the straight braid does the leader make a difference with the same bait ? 

[BucksBasser]

9 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

When you break off,  the knot at your lure should break off 95% of the time if you tie a good braid to leader knot and your leader has a lower test than the braid.

 

Wind knots are caused by line twist.  You are probably spooling the line on the reel incorrectly.  Let all of your line out without a lure behind the boat and then reel it in.  This will remove the twist.  If you are not in a boat you can walk it out on land.

 

Regardless of what type of line you use,  always completely fill the spool.

 

 

If your on land tie a ball bearing swivel to a tree or post, walk the line out.  Respool under moderate tension.

 

 

Another thing that causes problems is when people break off a hang-up by simply pulling against the reel.  This can damage and even cut line.  Especially braid.  I carry a short wooden dowel in my bag to wrap line around for pulling hang-ups.  Just don't overlap the line wraps on the dowel.

[Tennessee Boy]

4 hours ago, gimruis said:

That’s not going to remove line twist.

I’ve been doing it with mono with great success since the 1970s.  The line will eventually get twisted again and I just untwist it again.   

[gim]

37 minutes ago, BucksBasser said:

Respool under moderate tension.

Respooling by reeling the line in creates line twist. All you’re doing is creating the same problem. Every single spinning reel creates twist when you turn the handle. It’s simple physics as the bail turns when line comes back on.

[Drawdown]

16 hours ago, BucksBasser said:

 

Another thing that causes problems is when people break off a hang-up by simply pulling against the reel.  This can damage and even cut line.  Especially braid.  I carry a short wooden dowel in my bag to wrap line around for pulling hang-ups.  Just don't overlap the line wraps on the dowel.

 

This would probably go a long way toward eliminating the line dig.

[BucksBasser]

On 6/15/2024 at 5:24 PM, gimruis said:

Respooling by reeling the line in creates line twist. All you’re doing is creating the same problem. Every single spinning reel creates twist when you turn the handle. It’s simple physics as the bail turns when line comes back on.

That's why a ball bearing swivel is used.

[Brian11719]

I noticed this happening with me too a while back after switching to an alberto from a double uni. TLDR after looking into it I changed a couple of things:

1. I found this video on this forum:

 

2. Line diameter matters...at least for me it seems to work better if the diameters are close to matching and as an example I've noticed using 30lb Sufix 832 with 10lb Yo-Zuri Hybrid seems to hold up a better than trying to tie up the same 30lb braid to a 6lb fluorocarbon leader. If I'm using 10-15lb braid I won't tie on anything less than 10lb fluoro leader...in this case the fluoro will still be less but my point is I wouldn't go much lower than that...either way I still prefer braid to leader and making these adjustments helped a lot for me. 

 

 

[Drawdown]

Well braid—>leader worked just fine for me today. My scale said she was 3lbs 12oz—amazing fighter.