New Daiwa Zillion. Don’t know what I’m doing…

[bgaviator]

Ok so I bought my first baitcaster, a Daiwa Zillion, directly from Japan. Of course the instructions are all in Japanese. I just got it spooled up. I put on a squarebill lure. In my garage I released the button and my lure dropped quickly and I got an immediate birds nest. I thought maybe I needed to change the brake settings but after a few birds nests I tightened the spool tension. This caused the lure to fall at a slower steady rate and the spool did not birds nest. I guess what I’m confused about is Daiwas term of zero adjuster knob. I thought it was supposed to be set from the factory?  Am I still going to have to adjust the spool tension every time I change lures if they are different weights?  I am new to baitcasters so this is confusing to me. Also, any good starter brake setting for me to use for my first time taking it out? Thanks. 

[AlabamaSpothunter]

It's factory set for a smidge of side to side spool movement, then you adjust the brake profile based on conditions and lure weight on the water.

 

The only way I can get my Zillion to backlash is to do what you did, or rip line from the spool by hand to quickly.  

 

Forget about what it's doing with the "lure drop/spool tension" test method.   Again reset the reel for just a smidge of side to side spool movement, put the brakes on 10, and take it to the lake and start casting.   If it's still giving you problems come back and maybe something might not be right.

The Zillion is about the most user friendly reel I've ever used......it's the hardest reel I own to backlash, but I've still blown up a few spools of line on it through various stupid moves on my part.   

[casts_by_fly]

What he said. Though I’d start with a 14. 
 

if youve never cast a bait caster before then add a little spool tension. Don’t worry about distance, sort out ‘smooth’ action first. Then gradually take off some spool tension. 

[Bigbox99]

You're supposed to ride your thumb on top top of the spool to slow and stop the spool when the bait approaches the water or floor.  When casting a baitcast reel you have to track the bait with your eyes as it flies and apply pressure to the spool to slow and stop the spool as the bait nears the water.  It's a new thing to you but you are able to accomplish this.

[PhishLI]

26 minutes ago, casts_by_fly said:

What he said. Though I’d start with a 14. 

x2, especially if you're brand new.

 

P.S. Start with a roll cast until you get your feet under you.

[bgaviator]

Well I took it out to our local pond. Didn’t go so well. Numerous backlashes. A couple I had to completely cut out. The most casts I was able to do was 15 in a row. Seems like my tension knob was TOO tight at first. Once I loosened it a bit I was able to cast more without a birds nest. I learned if my thumb even nicked the spool as it was casting out I’d get a birds nest. Seems like when I’d try to wing the rod too hard I’d be more likely to get a birds nest as well. At one point I was able to take the brakes down to a 8 and I was able to get a cast almost to the other side of the pond. But then I got too cocky on my next cast and winged it really hard and it blew up. Seems like all my blowups were as the lure was still casting out. If it blew up it happened when the lure was about 25-50% over the water. Pretty disappointing day. 

[AlabamaSpothunter]

Sounds like it's an experience deal vs. a problem with the reel.  

 

If it were me, I'd go buy the cheapest monofilament line I could find, use a 3/8th - 1/2oz bait, and just practice with it.   

 

It should actually backlash less the more you crank down on the spool tension, and the same thing when you hit the spool with your thumb......you're decreasing the spool speed by doing both of those things, and the slower the spool speed, the less chance and severity of a backlash.  

 

Until you really get a baitcaster dialed in, the harder you try to cast it, the greater chance it's gonna backlash.    A nice smooth cast with your thumb hovering over the spool so that you can barely feel the line is a good place to start.   Drop that thumb all the way down on the spool right before you think your bait is gonna touch the water.    The more you do this, the more you'll realize how much precise control you can exhibit over spool speed with your thumb.  

 

It's kind of nuanced trying to describe how to properly cast a baitcaster, to me it's just one of those deals like riding a bike......once you get the feel of it, it's no big deal, but until you get that feel, it will buck you like a wild horse.  

[NavyToad]

It's not the reel. YouTube has videos on how to set up a bait caster. Forget side to side spool play and just adjust your brake for fall rate. Your brake adjustment will be different for 1oz than it is for 1/2oz. YouTube is a beginners friend with bait casters. Used to have to wait 'til Saturday morning for Denny Brauer to demonstrate on TV. 

[Boomstick]

2 hours ago, bgaviator said:

Seems like my tension knob was TOO tight at first. Once I loosened it a bit I was able to cast more without a birds nest.

That’s how the Daiwa reels work. You basically loosen the tension knob until it just begins to click just a little and you won’t ever have to change it. Tightening it not only shortens your casting distance but also increases birds nests.

 

These Daiwa reels are very well behaved reels and are generally good to learn with. Start with the brakes at 12 or even higher and use cheap line while learning. Eventually you’ll be able to run your brake between 6 and 10, depending on personal preferences.

 

Also the lures total weight and rod action come into play. Casting a lighter lire on a M/MF will be much easier than on a MH/F for example.

[A-Jay]

4 hours ago, bgaviator said:

Ok so I bought my first baitcaster, a Daiwa Zillion, directly from Japan. Of course the instructions are all in Japanese. I just got it spooled up. I put on a squarebill lure. In my garage I released the button and my lure dropped quickly and I got an immediate birds nest. I thought maybe I needed to change the brake settings but after a few birds nests I tightened the spool tension. This caused the lure to fall at a slower steady rate and the spool did not birds nest. I guess what I’m confused about is Daiwas term of zero adjuster knob. I thought it was supposed to be set from the factory?  Am I still going to have to adjust the spool tension every time I change lures if they are different weights?  I am new to baitcasters so this is confusing to me. Also, any good starter brake setting for me to use for my first time taking it out? Thanks. 

Watch this video a few times.

And then practice, practice & more practice.

 

A-Jay

[bulldog1935]

I've always found the best set up for Daiwa SV is adjust mag high, and get through mid-cast without backlash using the lightest thing you want to throw.  Dial it down to find incipient mid-cast backlash, and dial it up 2 notches. 

You're set - moving SV rotor will take over for heavier stuff.  

If you're casting into the wind, add 2 more mag notches.  

 

Zero Set is for incipient side play and should never need adjustment.  If you change it. open it up, click the clutch to freespool, slide the spool side to side, and dial in the Zero Set just to where side play disappears.  

 

If you're getting start-up backlash with heavy weights, eliminate wrist snap from your cast - follow through with smooth acceleration and no jerk.  

 

FWIW, I have never backlashed one of these reels.  

[new2BC4bass]

4 hours ago, PhishLI said:

x2, especially if you're brand new.

 

P.S. Start with a roll cast until you get your feet under you.

X3

 

I started with a TD Fuego.  Had the spool tension set way too tight the first year.  Backed off to where it should have been the second year.  Had to learn to cast all over again.

 

Two hand roll cast is the best way to learn.  It smooths out your casting stroke and keeps a constant load on the rod tip if done correctly.  If use to spinning reels, forget all you know.  (Well, maybe not all.)  Baitcast reel absolutely hates jerkiness.  Will be backlash city.

 

Daiwa reels are designed for basically no spool tension.  Letting a lure drop to the floor without the thumb stopping it is asking for a disaster.  Don't even think about it.

 

If backlashing at the end of your cast, you probably are 1) not using your thumb to stop the lure and/or 2) have brake set too light.

[bgaviator]

1 hour ago, Boomstick said:

That’s how the Daiwa reels work. You basically loosen the tension knob until it just begins to click just a little and you won’t ever have to change it. Tightening it not only shortens your casting distance but also increases birds nests.

 

These Daiwa reels are very well behaved reels and are generally good to learn with. Start with the brakes at 12 or even higher and use cheap line while learning. Eventually you’ll be able to run your brake between 6 and 10, depending on personal preferences.

 

Also the lures total weight and rod action come into play. Casting a lighter lire on a M/MF will be much easier than on a MH/F for example.

I’ve seen videos and read things to where it shouldn’t even make a clicking sound with the side-to-side movement and others that say it should make just a slight clicking sound. 

1 hour ago, new2BC4bass said:

X3

 

I started with a TD Fuego.  Had the spool tension set way too tight the first year.  Backed off to where it should have been the second year.  Had to learn to cast all over again.

 

Two hand roll cast is the best way to learn.  It smooths out your casting stroke and keeps a constant load on the rod tip if done correctly.  If use to spinning reels, forget all you know.  (Well, maybe not all.)  Baitcast reel absolutely hates jerkiness.  Will be backlash city.

 

Daiwa reels are designed for basically no spool tension.  Letting a lure drop to the floor without the thumb stopping it is asking for a disaster.  Don't even think about it.

 

If backlashing at the end of your cast, you probably are 1) not using your thumb to stop the lure and/or 2) have brake set too light.

I’m coming from a Zebco Bullet actually. I’m used to having to really wing it to get my lure to go far. My backlashes seems to be happening more at the beginning or middle of the lure launch. Most of my backlashes have happened just as the lure is crossing over the water. 

[new2BC4bass]

8 minutes ago, bgaviator said:

I’ve seen videos and read things to where it shouldn’t even make a clicking sound with the side-to-side movement and others that say it should make just a slight clicking sound. 

I’m coming from a Zebco Bullet actually. I’m used to having to really wing it to get my lure to go far. My backlashes seems to be happening more at the beginning or middle of the lure launch. Most of my backlashes have happened just as the lure is crossing over the water. 

Casting hard at first is a no-no.  What is the brake set at?

[AlabamaSpothunter]

Agreed with the above.....your backlashes are being caused by too much force and violence on the cast.   

 

You went from a 2004 Honda Accord to a 2021 Ferrari.   Two totally different machines.  

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Walk off  30 yards of line and run a strip of electrical tape around the spool. This will keep backlash from going deep. Never muscle a cast. Let the rod load and do the work. 

[bgaviator]

1 hour ago, new2BC4bass said:

Casting hard at first is a no-no.  What is the brake set at?

Been using between 10-14

[new2BC4bass]

Brake should be high enough.  Just ease up on your casting stroke until you've had enough practice to eliminate backlashes at that setting.

 

EDIT:  Start at 14 as suggested above.  Once backlashes are eliminated, lower brake by one, maintain easy stroke.  Repeat.  I'm always fishing from shore so I cast hard for distance.  Depending on lure, I am usually between 6 to 8 on the brake.  Occasionally up to 10, but that is normally when trying to cast a lure on the low end of the rod's rating and still aiming for the other side of the lake.    People with better thumb control cut that number significantly.

[Glenn]

Here's all you need:

 

 

[PhishLI]

8 hours ago, bgaviator said:

I’ve seen videos and read things to where it shouldn’t even make a clicking sound with the side-to-side movement and others that say it should make just a slight clicking sound. 

If you set it for no play but no tension, you're good. If you then turn the dial just a smidge counterclockwise and get the slightest click, you'll be alright too. I prefer no play no tension myself mainly because it makes sense to me from a mechanical standpoint, but either way will put it close enough to where it's supposed to be for proper operation.

 

Assuming you've set it either way, this has little to do with your newbie issue. Most of us have been there for a spell in the beginning. It's hateful, but eventually it clicks in your head, and you get it, then you'll love it. Don't give up.

 

 

[bulldog1935]

Keep your thumb in constant contact with the spool.  

Make short casts and work on accuracy.  

You are required to stop the spool at end of cast, and always will be. 

Learn how to lift your thumb and rely on the brakes at mid cast, and your thumb should again be adjusting the final accuracy in the cast by feathering and stopping the spool on the fall.  

Eliminate all jerk from your wrist - it was rewarded with distance on Zebco - on baitcast, jerk is only backlash.  

 

Backlash is one of those words like Braid- there are 3 different types of backlash that are all different and different causes - start-up overshoot caused by jerk; mid-cast backlash caused by gravity and wind; end-of-cast overrun caused by dumb.  Identify the type of backlash and go from there.  

[Glenn]

One more...

 

 

[bgaviator]

Just took the reel out again. Had a good morning. No fish, but I was mostly just practicing casting. I kept my brakes between 14-16 and had no major blowups. Probably did about 100 casts total. I do like how precise and how far I can cast, even on a higher brake setting. The rod is so much less fatiguing to hold too than with the heavy Zebco Bullet. I attempted to lower the brakes to 10 and that’s when I got my first big blowup but I was able to pick it out. I did get a few casts on a 10 setting though. With brakes at 12 or higher I don’t even have to do any thumbing. Maybe some, but there were times I didn’t thumb and it was still fine with no backlash. But definitely once you do brakes 10 or less that’s when thumb control comes into play. 

[waymont]

31 minutes ago, bgaviator said:

Just took the reel out again. Had a good morning. No fish, but I was mostly just practicing casting. I kept my brakes between 14-16 and had no major blowups. Probably did about 100 casts total. I do like how precise and how far I can cast, even on a higher brake setting. The rod is so much less fatiguing to hold too than with the heavy Zebco Bullet. I attempted to lower the brakes to 10 and that’s when I got my first big blowup but I was able to pick it out. I did get a few casts on a 10 setting though. With brakes at 12 or higher I don’t even have to do any thumbing. Maybe some, but there were times I didn’t thumb and it was still fine with no backlash. But definitely once you do brakes 10 or less that’s when thumb control comes into play. 

You might work on your casting stroke too. You should be able to get your dial number to 6 or 7 quite easily. Make sure you have a smooth casting stroke, without any jerky motions.

[Tackleholic]

Daiwa discourages adjusting the "no spool wobble" on the Zillions.  That may be the source of your problem, but once you've messed with it, too late to go back to the factory setting.