Time to Buy a Truck… but Which One?

[TOXIC]

Not all enhancements are bad.  My buddy has a 2023 Silverado 1/2 ton with the baby Duramax.  Truck gets very good mpg and tows well.  Has the electric shifter and automatically engages the parking brake with the trailer attached.  I like the 360 cameras and it showing on the main screen the camera on the side you turn on the blinker.  Also has the trailer monitoring where his dual axle boat trailer has both temp and pressure sensors on all tires.  It displays on the main screen as well.  

[MediumMouthBass]

4 hours ago, GReb said:

True. A lot of issues are electrical. GM/Chevy trucks with the new electric shifter are crapping out constantly having to be towed back to dealerships because the driver can’t put them in gear. I know of tow truckers who deliver 10 or so a week

Very sad that this is now considered normal....

 

Doesnt even matter what brand anymore, all the new vehicles made during or after covid are piles of garbage waiting to be recalled or towed back to the dealership.

All the main brands are making the news monthly by doing either thousands or hundred thousands of recalls. There was a article about Ford recalling cars because of fuel line issues, (that could cause engine fires) well when the dealerships were giving back the cars to the owners they did absolutely nothing to actually fix the problem! So the NHTSA is getting involved because the "repair" is inadequate and still poses safety risks.

Not to mention how many of their new Broncos are catching on fire....

I guess GM is trying to be more like Ford lately, i hear they changed their name from General Motors to Garbage Motors. (and im a fan of Chevy cars and trucks and im saying that)

And the Japanese brands are doing very poorly too.

 

I honestly dont understand how these companies did this, and keep doing this to their reputation and loyal customers. And what i cant understand even more is how they are making them more expensive at the same time? Less quality, potential to catch on fire, and made poorly with cheap parts = 10k more.

 

Now its not every vehicle, some are fine. But the amount that do have problems is enough for concern.

 

 

[A-Jay]

I have to admit @MediumMouthBass

I do enjoy being one of lucky few who have managed to purchase

several new GMC trucks that remain trouble free

for the entire duration of my ownership time.

Can't imagine dropping that kind of scratch on anything less.

When they run right - they're actually pretty nice.

A-Jay

 

[MediumMouthBass]

3 hours ago, A-Jay said:

I have to admit @MediumMouthBass

I do enjoy being one of lucky few who have managed to purchase

several new GMC trucks that remain trouble free

for the entire duration of my ownership time.

Can't imagine dropping that kind of scratch on anything less.

When they run right - they're actually pretty nice.

A-Jay

 

My dads owned Silverados one after another for the past few decades.

He has the previous generation one now, and loves it.

 

Hes a huge GM fan, well both my parents are. From their muscles cars from the later 60's to their more recent sports, trucks, and suv's. He also has alot of connections to the local dealerships and mechanics. This will be the first time he will chose to not buy a new one....

3 hours ago, A-Jay said:

When they run right - they're actually pretty nice.

 

Like i said, they arent all bad. Theres still quite alot that dont have issues, its just it seems theres more and more each year. And i definetly agree with you on that part im quoting, the good ones are very nice. With the right package, look, and tires they sure are some great trucks! His gets very great gas mileage as well. Those AT4's are cool, but im more partial to the Trail Boss'es😂 Youve got a nice truck either way!

I can understand how the Japanese ones might have started going down hill, (in my opinion those brands shouldve stuck to cars) but the American brands that built this country like Dodge Ford and Chevy (GM) taking the same path makes me sad....

3 hours ago, A-Jay said:

Can't imagine dropping that kind of scratch on anything less.

 

Another good point, i love Japanese cars but the trucks? They always looked odd, lacked the power i would want. And just didnt seem to have the quality or durability that the Chevy trucks my family owned did. And for the same price i couldnt imagine paying that for them. Hopefully they get back on track soon. Id love to get a Colorado Trail Boss in the next few years, maybe by then they will start putting real engines in them (V8's).

[DaubsNU1]

@MediumMouthBass, we are Chevy/GMC family as well.

 

My Honda's have been great cars...love them. But when it comes time to pull things like this...It's GM all the way!

 

[MediumMouthBass]

3 hours ago, DaubsNU1 said:

@MediumMouthBass, we are Chevy/GMC family as well.

 

My Honda's have been great cars...love them. But when it comes time to pull things like this...It's GM all the way!

 

Mine is also a GMC/Chevy family. Not even just my parents, almost every relative on both sides of the family, from back to the 1950's and still to this day. Several members of my family worked on cars either at professional shops or in their own garages since they were children, (not even joking) my dad was actually rebuilding motorcycle engines on his kitchen table after he got back from school. Whole different world back then.

All of them always owned Chevy vehicles, so im going to take that as they mustve made vehicles really well all those years.

 

We love cars, (more oriented in the performance, sport/muscle cars tho) so we own and have owned alot of different vehicles and still do. So our car brands are very mixed but when it comes to trucks and suv's its all Chevy or GMC 100%. The look, feel, comfort, reliability they have was always enough for us. Plus have you seen how the Ford trucks look?

[TOXIC]

I also drove a King Ranch in my truck search.  Massage seat? Ok, whatever.  What killed it for me and I’m not dissing ford, but when I sat in the drivers seat, I couldn’t see the hood….I might as well have been in a Volkswagen.😂  Weird tick I know but when I sit in a truck, I want to feel like I’m in a truck.

[slonezp]

Enjoy the new to you Toyota. I bought new, an '08 built in '07 which was the first year of the generation you purchased. Traded it in after 250K for the F250. The engine would probably go another 250K or more. The rest of it, not so much.

 

On a side note, I'm hearing there are a lot of issues with the new generation Tundra V6 with the twin turbos. Shame the EPA regulations ruined a good thing. The V8 is a workhorse. Horrible fuel economy...but who cares...

[JackstrawIII]

1 hour ago, TOXIC said:

I also drove a King Ranch in my truck search.  Massage seat? Ok, whatever.  What killed it for me and I’m not dissing ford, but when I sat in the drivers seat, I couldn’t see the hood….I might as well have been in a Volkswagen.😂  Weird tick I know but when I sit in a truck, I want to feel like I’m in a truck.

Ironically, this is one of the features that I loved about the Fords that I test drove haha. I felt like I could actually see what was happening in front of the truck, vs the Chevys with the huge hoods. Haha different strokes for different folks I suppose. 

30 minutes ago, slonezp said:

Enjoy the new to you Toyota. I bought new, an '08 built in '07 which was the first year of the generation you purchased. Traded it in after 250K for the F250. The engine would probably go another 250K or more. The rest of it, not so much.

 

On a side note, I'm hearing there are a lot of issues with the new generation Tundra V6 with the twin turbos. Shame the EPA regulations ruined a good thing. The V8 is a workhorse. Horrible fuel economy...but who cares...

Yeah, for the first few trips I took in the Tundra, I had the instant fuel mileage readout pulled up on the dash. Bad idea. I switched that off, and now I love my truck haha. 

[DaubsNU1]

3 hours ago, MediumMouthBass said:

Plus have you seen how the Ford trucks look?

 

One of my best friends in the world lives in a small town...and his Chevy dealer is a jerk. So he has gone back and forth between Ford and Dodge/Ram for 20+ years. Had the new 6.0 diesel in 2008...hated it...was in the shp 16 times inside of two years. 

 

Went Dodge / Cummins, and that was pretty good for him engine wise. Rest of the truck was a challenge. He went with a 6.4 Hemi in the 3/4 ton 4x4, but it ate gas more than my 8.1/496, and didn't seem to have as much power. So he finally moved to a 1500 Ram and likes that very much. He's not pulling a big 5th wheel any more, and sold his walleye boat...so it fits his needs. 

 

@MediumMouthBass Agree with you 100%, the Fords are wonky looking. 

[Deephaven]

I am late to the thread, but I rarely use a bed and after having a bunch of trucks realized it was a serious waste.  It's super cheap to rent a truck if I need the bed.

 

Instead for just over $40k we have a Q7 Audi.  It is super luxurious, gets over 30mpg on the highway, tows the Ranger like it isn't there and even has zero problems yanking around our 6800lb cruiser.  $40k doesn't get you all that much in a truck in comparison.

 

[gim]

17 minutes ago, Deephaven said:

yanking around our 6800lb cruiser

The tow rating for the Q7 is 7700 pounds. That is pushing the limit my friend. I have a Ranger with a towing package and the tow rating is 7500 pounds. No chance I would even consider hooking it up to a trailer weighing 6800.

[Deephaven]

59 minutes ago, gimruis said:

The tow rating for the Q7 is 7700 pounds. That is pushing the limit my friend. I have a Ranger with a towing package and the tow rating is 7500 pounds. No chance I would even consider hooking it up to a trailer weighing 6800.

It does amazing.  WAY better than my Silverado.  It's not even close.  Stops better, turns better, even feels way more stable just going down the road.  The big rig gets towed 2x a year and just 20mi but it does great.  

 

Even after lowering my Escalade and adding Wilwood brakes the Audi is better.  Of course in Europe you'd also see q7s towing huge campers.  Specs for towing here on German cars are way different than their capability.

[CountryboyinDC]

On 6/8/2024 at 5:25 PM, Bird said:

Yes, a product called Fluid Film.

When I was working and running the interstate I bought the stuff by the case.

It's very effective at preventing corrosion but it's a VERY messy job in the driveway.

A country hack (I'm sure not EPA approved) is to paint the undercarriage with burnt motor oil, then run down the dustiest dirt road you can find like the revenuers are behind you and you have a bed full of bootleg apple brandy.  Rust used not to be the problem in rural southwestern VA that it is in Michigan because no one ever salted the roads, but using that method you could get practically any bolt out years later without wringing it off except those on the exhaust.  

[TOXIC]

When I lived on a 130 acre farm in Iowa, the county sprayed all the gravel roads with oil.  It kept the dust down. 

[Dwight Hottle]

@MediumMouthBass I understand your point very well. We had around 13 different Toyotas starting in the early 80’s & the quality over domestic brands was very apparent. But recently Toyotas & other Japanese brands have reverted to lesser quality & innovation like the domestic brands before them when they got so smug about their status in the automotive world. The new emerging star for quality/innovation/price metric are the Korean manufacturers especially Hyundai & Kia. Based on my experience with two Hyundai Palisades & Kia Soul the Koreans have surpassed the Japanese for quality & innovation especially for the price. 

[MediumMouthBass]

7 hours ago, Dwight Hottle said:

@MediumMouthBass I understand your point very well. We had around 13 different Toyotas starting in the early 80’s & the quality over domestic brands was very apparent. But recently Toyotas & other Japanese brands have reverted to lesser quality & innovation like the domestic brands before them when they got so smug about their status in the automotive world. The new emerging star for quality/innovation/price metric are the Korean manufacturers especially Hyundai & Kia. Based on my experience with two Hyundai Palisades & Kia Soul the Koreans have surpassed the Japanese for quality & innovation especially for the price. 

The American and Japanese brands now think they could use subpar parts and quality and then price their cars like they are Mercedes or BMW'S. And also have you been or seen any videos with interactions with these dealers lately? No negotiating, horrible sales skills, awful people skills, and often they want you to do everything to sell you the car for them. Plus alot more sketchy tactics among other things going on then ever before.

I was at a Dodge dealer yesterday looking at a 392 Challenger from 2018, the car was absolutely filthy. Its been for sale for a year so far, spider webs all over, dirt everywhere, mold too in some spots, i have never experienced such lazy salesmen before. They wanted almost the same price as MSRP when it was new in 2018! Absurd, looked at their newer car prices too, about $20-30k more than the same ones i was looking at just 4 years ago, and everythings the same.... Japanese brands also, i was looking at Toyota and Nissan performance coupes a about 4 years ago as well, they would go for around 30k new, now they are selling for 50k..... And these prices are before all the "add ons" and "market adjustments" that can add hundreds or thousands.

And as soon as these Japanese cars head off the lot and are put on market place, or some other used car selling platform, they are worth about 60% of what they were paid for....

 

Stellantis (Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram) Ceo said he needs to find 200 million $ in the next few months, hes starting to do job and money cuts each month, hes now talking about selling the famous Chrysler building, and firing every American worker and moving to Brazil or Morocco....

The reason why? Because they have priced their Charges/Challengers, Jeeps, and Rams between 20-40 thousand dollars more than than they were priced just a few years ago. And add all these stealerships adding between 20k-100k market adjustments and made no changes to the cars. And are now refusing to lower pricing, so theyll just fire all American workers, close factories, and move elsewhere, because all their customers feel betrayed for them thinking they are worth gold and sell their products as if they are Mercedes, Bmw's, Porsche....

 

Now Kia and Hyundai i have mixed feelings about, they are very reasonable priced cars. Have great and long warranties (but are very strict about it) and offer alot of incentives and discounts (especially to military members current or former). Years ago when walking through a shop to look at a WRX we saw a Hyundai up on a lift, the parts used were typical of a car that cheap. Years later (now) it seems they have a much better reputation, and care more about the customers and quality than they do making a fortune like the other brands. Only reason i dont like them is the cars they offer are mostly sedans and suv's, im a performance guy that started off loving muscle cars from the late 60's.... I just cant do it. But most people i think are starting to realize their life long loyalty to certain brands are no longer worth 2-3x times the competition, especially for the way their vehicles are being recalled monthly, getting awful reviews, and not to mention is it just me or do most new vehicles look kind of odd and ugly? And then add a premium price for an inferior product. I think more people will either switch to Hyundai/Kia for new, or head to the used market for the brands they used to love.

 

They are using their brand recognition, brand loyalty, and status of the past to try to bypass cheating their current customers.... Sorry for the long read, im a car guy and i have way to much info about them.

 

@Dwight Hottle oh and by the way, those Palisades and newer Santa Cruz are nice, tried convincing my mom years ago to switch to the Palisade but it was too new at the time for long term reviews, might have to go check one out.

[JackstrawIII]

1 hour ago, MediumMouthBass said:

And also have you been or seen any videos with interactions with these dealers lately? No negotiating, horrible sales skills, awful people skills,

My experience at most dealerships echoed this sentiment. Very poor salesmanship. 

[MediumMouthBass]

3 hours ago, JackstrawIII said:

My experience at most dealerships echoed this sentiment. Very poor salesmanship. 

Its more common now then ever, ive went on hundreds of test drives spoke to alot of great people.

There used to be a small amount of those types, still had quite alot of good guys in the business.

But after covid it seems only the shady and manipulative type of people are working at dealerships anymore, the good guys were either forced out or quit because they didnt like what the places were turning into.

 

You used to go to a dealership, look at the car, the salesman or woman would talk about the key points, go over the features and then do a quick test drive. If you wanted it you could either pay cash or do financing.

 

Now its you go there, and they start doing financing the minute you get in the showroom.

No looking at the car, no checking it out or taking it for a test drive, and they dont even know a single thing about the car. They assume by you walking in that you are buying, an hour later after getting frustrated that they changed the priced 5 times, added 10k in add ons and extended warranties and have you paying $1000 a month for the car, you ask i just want to see the car and im not even sure if i like it. They either kick you out, or say they will be right back and after an additional half hour of waiting you just leave.

 

Buying used is the way to go, if you know what to look for you can get a great deal on a somewhat new vehicle. And you will be dealing with a person who needs money now, they will be willing to negotiate.

[A-Jay]

18 minutes ago, JackstrawIII said:

My experience at most dealerships echoed this sentiment. Very poor salesmanship. 

 

Here ya go ~

The solution to all your problems . . . 

 

https://www.carvana.com/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=sem_b&utm_term=1&utm_campaign=382590914&utm_content=1220458366383788&utm_target=kwd-76278984290743:loc-71304&utm_creative=&utm_device=c&utm_adposition=&utm_rw=1&msclkid=c3101ffd50651b26777c798a43d97832

A-Jay

[throttleplate]

If you are looking to buy a new vehicle and are dumb enough to pay a markup fee, pay for add-ons or any other cash grab fee then you deserve to get raked over the coals.

You shoud never pay MSRP, always negotiate 7 to 10% off msrp with NO add ons or fake fees.

Now, today, tomorrow, the ony fees you should be paying is the document fees, tax and licensing. Some states even regulate the document fees the dealers can charge.

If you dont feel comfortable or have never bought a new car go watch some you tube videos and learn how to negotiate buying a car.

[MediumMouthBass]

3 hours ago, throttleplate said:

If you dont feel comfortable or have never bought a new car go watch some you tube videos and learn how to negotiate buying a car.

Most dealerships the past few months have been still charging 5k over MSRP, and refuse to negotiate. If anyone finds themselves in a place like this RUN. Often a quick google search will often show 1 or a few places within 80 miles (give or take) that can get you a deal below MSRP, and negotiate too.

My dad had some nearby Chevy dealers that he had a long time relationship with, they wouldnt budge a dollar for a new truck, he found a different place an hour away and got 11k under MSRP for his truck. Took a few hours but it worked, this was right before covid tho.

 

Supply chain and manufacturing issues during and after covid ruined the car market....

There were barely any dealers that had new vehicles and the ones that did had a great idea of charging 10-30k more just "because try finding one else where".

After things started to go back to normal and things started to balance (somewhat) they didnt reduce the prices much, negotiations stopped, and it was still a "buy our price or leave" mentality they had. These guys made a fortune during this, and for some reason they still think they can charge these prices?

Well its no longer a sellers market, its a buyers. These dealers have too much inventory and with high supply and low demand they are struggling alot. Most dealers are still filled with leftovers from 22, 23, and 24 year models. Majority of Americans are maxed out in credit, and the rest are struggling to make it through the week financially. So people going out to buy vehicles they dont absolutely need isnt happening like it once was.

Add the amount of new cars being repossessed because people cant afford to pay anymore.

Mixed with the amount of people avoiding dealerships like the plague from their recent behaviors and actions.

 

And you now have the best time to buy in several years (if youve got the money that is).

These dealers are on the verge of sinking, and the waters only getting rougher, the amount of desperation and lack of relativity they have due to once again their reputations, market adjustments, and actions during covid, mixed with their ridiculous high prices, And companies like Carvana, and the used car market by private sellers.

The game is on, the deals are coming back, and so are the negotiations.

I heard a commercial last night from a some what local Chevy Dealer about their new sales, 10k below MSRP Silverados, 5K under Blazers and other SUV's, and thats before negotiating and other incentives. Shop around and low ball these dealers, its just like fishing. 20 bass wont want your green pumpkin senko, the 21st might bite.

[TOXIC]

Funny story, when I was new truck shopping in 2016 I took my young driving age daughter with me to show her how some dealerships work.  I already had been to my first choice (locally owned Chevrolet dealer) and gotten all of the pertinent information such as discounts, fees, trade in on my then current truck, etc.  Since I was buying flagship models, there was no need to haggle on things like towing package, leather, etc. My 1/2 ton local dealership options were Silverado High Country, Ford King Ranch, Tundra 1794, GMC Denali and Ram.  I say Ram with no model because when I stopped at that dealership, it took 20 minutes for a salesperson to approach us and it was a pleasant young lady who knew absolutely nothing about trucks.  I was gone in 30 minutes.  GMC was no discount off the highest base price of the entire group and lowest trade value. Next was the Ford dealership where we were greeted quickly by a young gentleman who knew his sales pitches so well he could have been a video on my phone.  He was also short on actual knowledge regarding towing capabilities and disappeared multiple times to get questions answered and was constantly answering phone calls.  Let me add we were trying to stay local because I like some services to be done by the dealer.  The truck I was trading in was a sponsorship truck from a dealership 50 miles away and it was a pain to get in for service even though it was free. Ford dealership was a branch of a big dealership in the DC/Northern Virginia area and you could tell the sales people weren’t local.  Last stop was the Toyota dealership and it was the absolute worst of the bunch and that was disappointing because I was very interested in the 1794 Tundra.  They already had one strike because I had taken my Lexus there for service and they tried to charge me extra for rotating the tires because the stock wheels had so many bolts in the wheels (Lexus SC430 owners call them pie plates) and they also tried to charge me for washer fluid when I purposely filled it before I dropped it off as a test.  I got a bunch of charged dropped.  That was service and I hoped sales would be better.  They were not.  They way undervalued my trade, wouldn’t budge on price, shoved a sales contract in my face and it had to be signed right then and there, brought the sales manager over to pressure me (I actually think it was just another salesman) and the last straw was they were not giving me the keys back to my truck.  I finally had to threaten to call the law if they didn’t get my truck back out front in 30 seconds.  I was red faced pizzed by the time we got out of there.  That’s not to say I haven’t had my problems with the Chevy dealership but the new truck sales manager was a fisherman and I gave him a KeelShield for his boat and some Yamamoto product.  I had an open line to him and his personal cell.  I called it more than once and got some issues resolved under goodwill that would have probably not been allowed otherwise and the service department initially denied.  He’s retired now but the dealership knows me well even though I now utilize some excellent private service shops.  If/when I decide to new truck shop again, I’ll start the process all over.

[Woody B]

@TOXIC's 2016 bad experience is way more common now.   Most dealerships lost money during covid.  Many of the small family run ones sold out.   (but small family run doesn't always mean good)

 

Since covid service prices have almost doubled, as well as mark up on new cars.  It's my belief that they're trying to make back the money they lost overnight.  They got used to a sellers market where they could charge what they wanted to.  Many are still trying that.   

 

I worked at a Chevrolet Dealership for a couple decades.   It was a small family owned dealer.   I left there in 2016.  They sold out to a big corporation last year.  This was the last real family owned dealership around here.  

 

I currently work for the "largest used car retailer in the US".   (the link A-jay posted is currently the 2nd largest)    The price marked on the car is the price.   No haggling, and no additional mark ups.  This will offer an extended warranty, but no special air, or expensive special wax job.

 

I suspect most modern honest dealers (both new and used)would like to do business this way.   It's also my belief that most modern dealers prefer online customers.   Online sales, with a no haggle price and no add ons eliminate sleazy sales people.   

[throttleplate]

56 minutes ago, Woody B said:

Since covid service prices have almost doubled, as well as mark up on new cars.  It's my belief that they're trying to make back the money they lost overnight.

 

Are dealers also trying to make back the costs of making EV,s and now scaling back on ev,s due to slower than anticipated sales they keep gas vehicles high?