Furthest Casting Reel for ultimate long distance reach when frogging *sigh*

[Bandersnatch]

I get it, this is a bit of an annoying question, but I have a specific setup that I use when attempting to reach the absolute furthest areas that I simply cannot drag my boat through when frogging. I'm the guy who will drag the Ranger up until the Garmin Force simply won't pull it any further, but even then, there are pockets with a canopy and enough water to hold fish.

For this situation, I've begun using a new rod that I absolutely love: the 7'7" H Expride. I've found that with the 7'7" H and a new Zillion G combined with 50 lb Maxcuatro braid, I can reach much further than with my 7'3" XH Expride. The soft tip of the 7'7" H allows me to sling the frog further. I've carefully adjusted the brakes until the reel can no longer manage, and the distance is maximized, yet I still have plenty of braid on the reel.

My question is, for this very specific situation, is there a reel that you think will cast further than the Zillion with the SV Boost spool?

 

Let me know your thoughts

[Bigbox99]

OG TD Zillion HLC.  Z200 on Long Cast setting.  Maybe the Steez A HLC but that one seems to be wild.  The type of frog you use matters too.  I use Terminator walking frogs and can dump and entire 36mm spool of 50# braid with the Zillion HLC largely do to how well that frog casts.  I wouldn't even throw it on a Zillion G.  That shallow 34mm spool doesn't hold enough line for that frog IMO.  It could even spool the notoriously over braked 17 Tatula SV if you cast hard enough.

[casts_by_fly]

1/2 oz frogs?

 

I don't know maxcuatro, but I do find that 8 carrier braid casts further than 4 so that's something to consider if maxcuatro is a 4-carrier.

 

Reel wise it sounds like you've maxed out the zillion.  I've got an older model chronarch bantam 100 that is an absolute monster when it comes to slinging distance.  It will top 50 yards with a 1/2 oz frog on a 7'6" rod.  My current model chronarch MGL will do the same on my 6'11" frog rod with the same frog.  I'm not sure if that's the distance you're looking for or further (I suspect further).  

[Bandersnatch]

I'm throwing mostly the 5/8 snag proof bobbys perfect frog and also throwing the scum frog launch frog 5/8, is there another one i should be throwing?

[casts_by_fly]

If you're trying to maximize distance, the bully wa ( big version is 3/4 oz) and the Spro Rojas king daddy is 1 oz.  I can't imagine how far you could launch a 1 oz frog.

 

I assume you're trimming tails short?  They catch a lot of air.

 

You could also add a little weight to your current frogs and see if it helps.  A couple glass or plastic beads inside the body would do it (and also give you some clicking as you come across the mats).

[r83srock]

Curado 150 DC is the best frog reel I can think of. I have 50lb smack down on mine and it’s a frogging machine! Rod is a Falcon EVO 7’3” H

[nso123]

I currently have a Tatula SV on my frog rod and can launch it.  I have the brakes turned down and have it spooled with 50# 832.  I just got a Metanium though, and think I could probably throw it farther. 

[new2BC4bass]

Seem to remember PhishLI and bulldog1935 mentioning the BB1 Pro as being a distance king.  hopefully both will respond.

[FishTank]

That are a lot of factors that go into casting distance.... how the rod loads, reel, line, spool diameter, and so on. The top 10 list in order below is of what I own and it can change based on all of the miscellaneous things mentioned. 

 

1. Shimano Metanium 100

2. Shimano Antares 70

3. Shimano Antares 2012

4. Daiwa Steez A II 

5. Daiwa Zillion G

6. Shimano DC

7. Shimano Calcutta Conquest 101

8. Daiwa Steez SV TW 

9. Daiwa Costal 80

10. Lews BB1

 

I use Google Maps to measure at a local pond I visit. The spot marked below is my bench mark for distance with a 1/2oz lure. It's 120 feet from one bank to the other.  I can hit that spot easily with the top 6 reels with just about any rod and line.

 

[Bandersnatch]

21 minutes ago, FishTank said:

That are a lot of factors that go into casting distance.... how the rod loads, reel, line, spool diameter, and so on. The top 10 list in order below is of what I own and it can change based on all of the miscellaneous things mentioned. 

 

1. Shimano Metanium 100

2. Shimano Antares 70

3. Shimano Antares 2012

4. Daiwa Steez A II 

5. Daiwa Zillion G

6. Shimano DC

7. Shimano Calcutta Conquest 101

8. Daiwa Steez SV TW 

9. Daiwa Costal 80

10. Lews BB1

 

I use Google Maps to measure at a local pond I visit. The spot marked below is my bench mark for distance with a 1/2oz lure. It's 120 feet from one bank to the other.  I can hit that spot easily with the top 6 reels with just about any rod and line.

 

21 minutes ago, FishTank said:

That are a lot of factors that go into casting distance.... how the rod loads, reel, line, spool diameter, and so on. The top 10 list in order below is of what I own and it can change based on all of the miscellaneous things mentioned. 

 

1. Shimano Metanium 100

2. Shimano Antares 70

3. Shimano Antares 2012

4. Daiwa Steez A II 

5. Daiwa Zillion G

6. Shimano DC

7. Shimano Calcutta Conquest 101

8. Daiwa Steez SV TW 

9. Daiwa Costal 80

10. Lews BB1

 

I use Google Maps to measure at a local pond I visit. The spot marked below is my bench mark for distance with a 1/2oz lure. It's 120 feet from one bank to the other.  I can hit that spot easily with the top 6 reels with just about any rod and line.

 

It’s interesting that you find the metanium 100 to be the longest caster, they must act differently than the 150. I strongly disliked that the 150. How much further do you think the met 100 casts than the zillion g on the same setup?

[THE_Vue's]

Og T3 1016.  That 3d mag force is a beast

[Bandersnatch]

7 minutes ago, THE_Vue's said:

Og T3 1016.  That 3d mag force is a beast

Looks like a cool reel, you really think it keeps up with the new ones?

[FishTank]

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

It’s interesting that you find the metanium 100 to be the longest caster, they must act differently than the 150. I strongly disliked that the 150. How much further do you think the met 100 casts than the zillion g on the same setup?

About 20+ feet.  I have been using the Metanium 100 on an NRX+ 883 BJR. It loads, for me, better than most rods. The Zillion G has been sitting on Megabass Evoluzion Super Diablo II. Both rods have soft tips and each reel has 12lb Fluorocarbon on it. 

 

Both reels are great but the Metanium 100 will just out cast the Zillion. After fishing them side by side on several occasions, I have no complaints with either reel. 

[THE_Vue's]

3 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Looks like a cool reel, you really think it keeps up with the new ones?

From my experience with all the high end gear I have.  Yes the 1016 is my top farthest caster for frogs.  

[WRB]

YGK Xbraid Upgrade is smaller diameter the what the OP is using and should increase casting distance. A MH power rod will also improve casting distance vs. H power.

Tom

[Bandersnatch]

43 minutes ago, WRB said:

YGK Xbraid Upgrade is smaller diameter the what the OP is using and should increase casting distance. A MH power rod will also improve casting distance vs. H power.

Tom

Do we really think the diameter makes a difference for casting different? Futhermore? Do you believe the manufactures numbers ?

 

for example all 50lb

power pro maxcuarto = 0.32mm

YGK Xbraid =0.285, anybody actually used this braid for heavy cover?

Suffic 131 (13 strand) 0.34

Cortlans silent flip, would this be long casting? (16 strand) 

Fins infinity braid (8 strand) 0.17! <—highly doubtful it’s true 

[WRB]

Very difficult to measure braid because it isn’t round like mono line and tends to flatten. 
I found Fins braid to be very honest in their published data. For example I bought Seaguar Smack Down influenced by BR members. Smack Down didn’t cast good and replaced it with Fins Spin5, smaller diameter with excellent casting performance and knot strength.

Smaller diameter line definitely makes a difference everything being equal.

Tom

[casts_by_fly]

8 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Do we really think the diameter makes a difference for casting different? Futhermore? Do you believe the manufactures numbers ?

 

for example all 50lb

power pro maxcuarto = 0.32mm

YGK Xbraid =0.285, anybody actually used this braid for heavy cover?

Suffic 131 (13 strand) 0.34

Cortlans silent flip, would this be long casting? (16 strand) 

Fins infinity braid (8 strand) 0.17! <—highly doubtful it’s true 

 

Yes, the diameter (and more accurately line physical weight) matters.  I could take my 7' lipless rod with 30 lb 832 on it and cast a frog a mile.  A 60 yard cast with that rod and a 1/2 oz lipless is common.  Put 50 lb 832 on it and it wouldn't cast as far by any stretch.  That rod also wouldn't set a hook at 20 yards worth a darn with a frog.

 

Stiffness plays a part too.  Well broken in braid is different to fresh off the spool.  I just reversed my braid because I changed which reel was on my frog rod and what was down in the spool isn't broken in yet.  You can tell.

 

Whether you believe the manufacturers is another story. 

 

 

1 hour ago, FishTank said:

About 20+ feet.  I have been using the Metanium 100 on an NRX+ 883 BJR. It loads, for me, better than most rods. The Zillion G has been sitting on Megabass Evoluzion Super Diablo II. Both rods have soft tips and each reel has 12lb Fluorocarbon on it. 

 

Both reels are great but the Metanium 100 just out cast the Zillion. After fishing them side by side on several occasions, I have no complaints with either reel. 

 

You've got me wanting to do a test of my own now.  If I didn't have to swap lines to do it I would absolutely go out in the yard now.  I shoot archery down my driveway so I have every 10 yards marked off out to 40, then I can go into the cul-de-sac for the rest.  Between a Met 100, chronarch 150, bantam MGL (150 I think), chronarch Bantam 100a, Zillion SV TW, and an Abu STX gen 4, I might put the Met at the bottom for distance. Then again, I've never cast them all in like for like conditions on the same rod with the same line.  I do know that with a zillion and 17 lb Elite mono (thick diameter) I can just about cast off the entire spool with a 110 plopper.  The STX is similar distance (though holds more line) as I have fished both with the same line and on comparable rods.

[redmeansdistortion]

53 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Do we really think the diameter makes a difference for casting different? Futhermore? Do you believe the manufactures numbers ?

 

for example all 50lb

power pro maxcuarto = 0.32mm

YGK Xbraid =0.285, anybody actually used this braid for heavy cover?

Suffic 131 (13 strand) 0.34

Cortlans silent flip, would this be long casting? (16 strand) 

Fins infinity braid (8 strand) 0.17! <—highly doubtful it’s true 

I would believe YGK's numbers since their lines are manufactured and sold in Japan and regulated by the Japan Fishing Tackle Manufacturers Association (JFTMA).  JFTMA dictates that a line of a certain diameter must break at a certain strength whether it is braid, nylon, or fluorocarbon.  Here in the states we have no such regulatory body so the measurements seen on the labels are often very misleading as those measurements are arbitrary.  It's the reason why a lot of lines get reputations of being strong for their rating.  Manufacturers here like to use a comparably larger diameter and give it a lesser rating, both in strength and diameter giving that illusion.  The only lines on the US market that I truly trust as far as diameter and strength; Sunline, YGK, and Varivas.  The commonality with them, they are all manufactured and also sold in Japan and bound by JFTMA standards.

[JN94]

2020 Metanium MGL

[FishTank]

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

Do we really think the diameter makes a difference for casting different? Futhermore? Do you believe the manufactures numbers ?

 

for example all 50lb

power pro maxcuarto = 0.32mm

YGK Xbraid =0.285, anybody actually used this braid for heavy cover?

Suffic 131 (13 strand) 0.34

Cortlans silent flip, would this be long casting? (16 strand) 

Fins infinity braid (8 strand) 0.17! <—highly doubtful it’s true 

 

I use YGK Upgrade on my heavy jig set up with a Zillion HD and I have YGK OLLTOLOS on another jig rod. The OLLTOLOS is really good but white. It's slick and peels off the spool easily.

 

 

 

[new2BC4bass]

OP, did you do a search before posting?  If you do one now, you will get lead back to this thread by most of the first page because it is the latest thread on distance.  I wish the search function could limit results just to the original post instead of also including everyone's reply in that thread.  Maybe there's a way and I just don't know how.

 

Here's a recent one mentioning the BB! Pro.

 

 

 

[GetFishorDieTryin]

8 minutes ago, redmeansdistortion said:

Manufacturers here like to use a comparably larger diameter and give it a lesser rating, both in strength and diameter giving that illusion.

I don't think it's that as for breakage, the JDM lines use a different was to advertise breaking strength, that's where the majority of the dia. discrepancy comes from.  While the JDM lines have a stronger strength to dia ratio, the US lines are right behind them.  JDM lines will use the example that exhibited the max amount of breaking strength out of all the tests they run to advertise breaking strength.  USDM discard the # (dia) system and use a different philosophy for breaking strength, taking the lowest breaking strength and advertising it.  Thats why you have 10lb PE 832 breaking at nearly 20lbs and JDM #1 20lb breaking around 15.

The actualy dia of PE, depending on the type and how used it is makes a difference, as some braid as rounder some are flatter.  PE isn't continuously the same dia either, so it makes things more difficult.  As it was explained to me, they take cross section measurements and use that here in the US.  I suspect that some companies are using the lowest measurements they get, and I think it varies from company to company.  I love x9, but its not as thin as they claim it is.  I think JDM has better standard with the dia # system dictating what the line is used more so than breakage strength.  The Japanese also put effort into full lines of situational braids, whereas in the US there are options, but not to the JDM extent. 

Essentially what Im trying to say is, the difference isnt as fast as far as quality goes.  Its the way they market their lines.  It also helps that they have some of the best QC standards available, but you pay for it.  There are great lines available here too, but the dia ratings can be misleading at times. 

[redmeansdistortion]

44 minutes ago, GetFishorDieTryin said:

I don't think it's that as for breakage, the JDM lines use a different was to advertise breaking strength, that's where the majority of the dia. discrepancy comes from.  While the JDM lines have a stronger strength to dia ratio, the US lines are right behind them.  JDM lines will use the example that exhibited the max amount of breaking strength out of all the tests they run to advertise breaking strength.  USDM discard the # (dia) system and use a different philosophy for breaking strength, taking the lowest breaking strength and advertising it.  Thats why you have 10lb PE 832 breaking at nearly 20lbs and JDM #1 20lb breaking around 15.

The actualy dia of PE, depending on the type and how used it is makes a difference, as some braid as rounder some are flatter.  PE isn't continuously the same dia either, so it makes things more difficult.  As it was explained to me, they take cross section measurements and use that here in the US.  I suspect that some companies are using the lowest measurements they get, and I think it varies from company to company.  I love x9, but its not as thin as they claim it is.  I think JDM has better standard with the dia # system dictating what the line is used more so than breakage strength.  The Japanese also put effort into full lines of situational braids, whereas in the US there are options, but not to the JDM extent. 

Essentially what Im trying to say is, the difference isnt as fast as far as quality goes.  Its the way they market their lines.  It also helps that they have some of the best QC standards available, but you pay for it.  There are great lines available here too, but the dia ratings can be misleading at times. 

You're not understanding the regulatory body in place in Japan.  A line that's stated to break at 20lb must break at 20lb according to the rules, if not it won't be sold there.  Their lines are measured on the denier scale which is much more accurate than how manufacturers here do it.

[new2BC4bass]

2 hours ago, casts_by_fly said:

 

Yes, the diameter (and more accurately line physical weight) matters.  I could take my 7' lipless rod with 30 lb 832 on it and cast a frog a mile.  A 60 yard cast with that rod and a 1/2 oz lipless is common.  Put 50 lb 832 on it and it wouldn't cast as far by any stretch.  That rod also wouldn't set a hook at 20 yards worth a darn with a frog.

 

Stiffness plays a part too.  Well broken in braid is different to fresh off the spool.  I just reversed my braid because I changed which reel was on my frog rod and what was down in the spool isn't broken in yet.  You can tell.

 

Whether you believe the manufacturers is another story. 

 

 

 

You've got me wanting to do a test of my own now.  If I didn't have to swap lines to do it I would absolutely go out in the yard now.  I shoot archery down my driveway so I have every 10 yards marked off out to 40, then I can go into the cul-de-sac for the rest.  Between a Met 100, chronarch 150, bantam MGL (150 I think), chronarch Bantam 100a, Zillion SV TW, and an Abu STX gen 4, I might put the Met at the bottom for distance. Then again, I've never cast them all in like for like conditions on the same rod with the same line.  I do know that with a zillion and 17 lb Elite mono (thick diameter) I can just about cast off the entire spool with a 110 plopper.  The STX is similar distance (though holds more line) as I have fished both with the same line and on comparable rods.

When I first used braid on a casting reel, 40# was my first choice if I bought it.  Have purchased a used reel with 30# already spooled on it, and it worked fine for me once I removed the tight spots that were already there.  I bought 60# when I decided on using my 7'6" HF as a dedicated frog rod (because of what I'd read).  Definitely hurt distance.  Too frugal to throw the line away, but will definitely be going lighter when it needs replacing.  May not happen in my lifetime, tho.

 

Gen 1 STX lists 135 yards of 12# mono.  I assume that is when spooled to 1/16-1/8 inch below the rim as Abu suggests in the sheet that came with the reel.  I fill to the spool bevel.  7' MHF Jupiter (Daiwa rod exclusively for Walmart), 40# Sufix Performance, and 3/4 oz. spoon would cast off over half the line from sitting position in a Gheenoe.  Should be able to achieve more distance standing.

 

I'm going to try some 25# braid on my new Salamandura 70 SV TW.  A 5/8 oz. lipless on a 6'10" MH-MF about empties the spool with the 12# mono I first put on it.  Since I now live in Florida, I will be spooling braid most of the time.