Kayak fish finder

[JayMac89]

So iv never used any type of electronics. Got a nicer kayak recently, and adding a fish finder has been a thought. Did some research on and off. Not so much looking for suggestions on exact units, more so looking for suggestions on practical use. 

 

I fish alot of shallow lakes. 10ft or less, usually in probably 5 ft of water the majority of time. Alot of soft bottom. Alot of grass and vegetation. Anyway I was thinking of bigger nicer unit with both side and down imaging . But was curious if it would be a waste. Is it even useful in that shallow of water? Saw a guy on the water today with a nicer lowrance. He basically confirmed my suspicion that yes, it's useless unless your in deeper water. Which got me thinking maybe just a cheap unit for water depth and water temp. 

 

I don't travel to fish. But it's somthing I'm wanting to do. There are deeper water lakes nearby, I just don't generally fish them but have been meaning to. So it's reasonable to think I will find myself in deeper water at some point. I'm also the type of guy that doesn't mind spending extra money as long as it's practical. I'd rather buy once, cry once. Rather than buy and regret and buy again. 

 

With my lack of experience, I'm unsure what to do. I really am only interested in seeing my depth, water temp, and some bottom detail. I'm also not in a rush to buy anything. I don't NEED it. So figured I'd get some opinions. 

 

So does the side/down imaging really prove useful in shallow water? And even if it does, with a ton of vegetation around would I even be able to see anything but grass? What route would you go in my scenario? 

[casts_by_fly]

If you're in heavy vegetation, don't even turn it on.  That's extreme, but follow me here.

 

Down imaging and 2D in less than 10' of water is not terribly useful.  The cone of what you're covering on the bottom isn't very wide.  In 5' of water I think the bottom coverage is something like 4'.  And, if you're trying to identify fish in that you're running over their heads.  At 10' its a little better but around here from today until October anything that's 10' or less has grass to the surface.  Yours sounds similar.

 

Side imaging is useful in shallower water.  You'll scan anywhere 50-100' each side depending on the unit and the water depth.  That's helpful if there aren't weeds blocking you as you can find the hard spots, any brushpiles, isolated cover, and weedlines.  If your lake is solid weeds though, you'll be limited to just the more open areas.  Where it is useful though it going through those same lakes in the spring before the weeds are up and waypointing bottom structure.  Then come back and fish those spots when the weeds are up. 

 

If all of the lakes you're fishing are shallow and weedy, I think you'll find lower benefit from a unit than what you might want.  In that case, I'd suggest that an actual thermometer and a Navionics map on your phone will do just as much as you need.  If you want a fish finder, then a smaller unit like a 4" hook or piranha might be the way to go.  Grab a used one from a forum or marketplace to keep it cheap.  Remmeber that introdocing a fish finder means a battery also and a way to charge it.  You may or may not have to take it off the boat to travel.  All things to consider.

 

Below are some images and commentary.

 

Side and down imaging coming over a dropoff with some thin weeds.  You can see the individual weeds on the down imaging portion.  the side imaging shows where the weeds end, but notice how dark it is past 20'.  That's the weeds blocking the beam.  This isn't a thick grass bed and not to the surface.  Its 7-10' before the drop to 20'.

 

Clear bottom with a lot of rocks.  Sensitivity is a little higher and the image slightly blown out, but I was still learning the new unit.  Note the water temp- early season.  Lots of visibility left and right.

 

 

 

Very clear lake and grass grows to the surface in 15' of water.  On the side imaging (roughly where the black reflection of my phone is) you can see the grass start to taper away from the centerline.  That's the topped out grass slowing going down until you hit deep water.  On the down and 2D you can see the grass about 5' up off the bottom.  2D is a little 'hot' and the rest probably are too.  The bottom half of the SI image is what you'd see in a grass filled lake on SI.

 

 

 

School of crappie on SI.  They were ~15' to the right of the boat in about 10' of water.  Note that they don't show up on DI/2D.

[Choporoz]

Most important feature to me is one not even mentioned.   GPS and maps.

 

Sounds like you are going to fish other lakes...I promise you side and down imagining will be of great value

[Bankc]

The thing with a "fish finder" is they're usually not that good at actually finding fish.  Well, they can certainly find fish and be useful in catching fish, but in my experience, most of the fish you find on a fish finder are suspending and not being very active, and thus really hard to catch.  And in shallow water, you'll likely scare off any fish you're close enough to see on your fish finder anyway.  But there's other information a fish finder can tell you that help you find and catch fish.  Things like cover, structure, cover on structure, a thermocline, or finding at what depth the fish are holding. 

 

So if you're just using a fish finder to look for actual fish and then trying to catch those same fish, it's not often very useful, and especially so in shallow water.  But if you're using it to find points, channels, drop offs, submerged vegetation, bottom composition changes, an all of the other stuff that attract bass in a lake, then they can be very useful.  You won't often see the fish you catch on a fish finder, but you may often see the places that you'll catch them. 

[JayMac89]

That's what I figured, thank you for the input. I keep going back and forth. No fish finder, a cheap one, a nicer unit. I'm not looking to find actual fish, just structure and cover. In fact, if I'm being honest I don't really see the need for one. The only time I can see it being useful is late winter/early spring and late fall/early winter. Which dosent really justify the cost in my opinion. But what can I say, I like new shiny toys. 

 

I see alot of guys using them though so I'm assuming I'm missing somthing. However it doesn't sound like I am from the responses I got.  

[gim]

On 6/2/2024 at 12:34 PM, JayMac89 said:

Which got me thinking maybe just a cheap unit for water depth and water temp

Even if it’s just a basic unit with color sonar and water temp, I think it would be useful. You wouldn’t have to pay much more to get GPS mapping on it either.

[JayMac89]

Today I'm in the mindset to get a nicer unit. 

 

There are two or 3 lakes nearby that are quite deep. 45 feet or so. But iv never fished them. Been meaning to. Just hadn't. Mostly because of the kayak I had prior to this new one and the fact that deep water is foreign to me. 

 

Generally I'm fishing much shallower lakes. About 5-6 different lakes. But ever since getting the new kayak, I don't fish most of those for various reasons. Now there's only 2 I fish. Which would be a perfect time to get into these deeper lakes. 

 

I can get a 4in screen (striker/phirana) for 150-200. I can get the saltwater version of the garmin echomap 7 in screen for 350. Yes, it's the saltwater version. But the lakes I fish I'd have to map myself anyway so it really doesn't matter. For an extra 150 I can get a much nicer unit. Seems like a no brainer to me. And it's the way I'm leaning today. 

 

Going to mull it over a few days and see if I change my mind. I'm "graduating" if you will, when it comes to fishing. Branching out. I'd rather spend the extra 150 and grow into a unit then get a cheaper one that I quickly upgrade from. And if I do find that I don't have a need for the nicer unit, well it's 150 bucks. Not that big of a deal. 

 

[Bass Junke]

I was just basically doing the same thing. Was going to buy the same unit (salt version). Ended up buying a 7SV. I may be wrong but IMO by the time I get around to upgrading to live sonar, I will want a different unit. 

 

I have been on the water several times with the 7SV. Side imaging is nice. I have found some interesting things already on one of the ponds I fish a lot. 

[Fishingmickey]

Go with the 74SV unit. for the extra 150 you get a ton more features.  Just some food for thought. I've attached a link to Garmin's website that tells what the beam or cone angle is for which transducer. You want to find your transducer on there and note what your beam/cone angle is.  Imagine you take that angle and drew it out on a flat surface and that will tell you how much bottom your seeing in regards to depth.  I hope what I've said makes sense and helps you understand what you'll see better on your screen.

FM

 

https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=k5DbKA3w589v1U71ylHZY8

 

[70diesel]

You are going to need a battery and I've got one for sale perfect for your kayak, small and light weight.

 

 

[JayMac89]

Well, I pulled the trigger on the garmin echomap 93sv. I got into some of those other deeper lakes I mentioned. Talk about a challenge, but in a good way. Totally not what I'm used to. Long story short I tried finding some structure, got on some fish. But w quickly started thinking about adding a unit. Instead of thinking it over, I just impulse bought. I went on and off thinking about adding a unit 4 or 5 times now. Figured it's time to stop pushing off the inevitable. 

 

I think it'll prove useful in these much deeper lakes. Don't know why I went 9in screen. Seems big but, whatever. I travel pretty light on the kayak. I got the room for the bigger screen. Plus the price wasn't bad. At least I think. Got the unit, the noqua(or however you spell it) 10ah battery, and the yak attack mount for a little under a grand.

 

It's going to be a learning curve. Never used any form of electronics. But I'll figure it out. Pretty excited. Thanks for the input from everyone. 

[casts_by_fly]

You will like it. You might need more than 10ah but see how it does for you on your trips. 

[JayMac89]

Yeah I got the 10AH based off review videos I was watching. I guess we will see. 

 

I do have a interesting question. Obviously iv never used electronics. So currently I usually come up with a plan/route based off weather, time of year, recent success, blah blah blah. 

 

Well during my research I was watching a video that sparked a thought I never took into consideration. How do you guys use your electronics? Specifically for kayak guys but I'm interested in what boat guys have to say as well. I know that sounds like a vague question, so let me elaborate. 

 

Again, never used them but I do understand how to read them more or less. Have done my homework. But I saw a video and the guy was basically moving around, finding spots, marking way points, then coming back later. It makes sense, but it's also so foreign to me. Like I said, I get on the water and fish. 

 

So I'm curious, how do you guys use your electronics. Fish old school and just have them running for if you see somthing you want to hone in on? Don't even touch a pole and just find spots on electronics first? Little bit of both? 

 

It's somthing I didn't think of, and now that my garmin unit is here, I'm excited to use it. Thinking of how I'm going to implement it next weekend. Obviously will be a learning curve. Trial and error. But super interested in how you guys actually use them. Seems there's more strategy involved then I initially thought. 

[casts_by_fly]

In a boat, you can scan lots of areas and mark waypoints to come back to, e.g. go find brush piles in 12’ near drop offs all in a given day.  In a kayak, you have less range so you can do the same things but not across a full lake. So what do when I’m fishing a lake that I don’t know fully or haven’t scanned lately is that I’ll spend a little time when the fish aren’t eating to scan and mark anything interesting. I might not fish it that day, but I know it’s there for another trip. If I see a bunch of fish then i‘ll stop and fish, but that isn’t the purpose. 
 

when I’m going down the bank I will have it on. In the past I’d leave side imaging on so i could see anything off to the side I didn’t know was there. Now I have live imaging so I’ll leave it on and facing ahead of me in case there are roaming fish that I’m not necessarily fishing for but that I now know are there. 

[JayMac89]

Interesting. Thanks for the input. 

 

I'm sure my approach will change as I get used to using electronics and as I become more familiar with certain lakes. 

 

But currently my plan was to use side imaging as I move about to get a broader view of what's around. Maybe go back over with down imaging if I see somthing interesting. Honestly will probably use the split screen and run both. Sort of an added benefit of going with the 93, bigger screen. Can't say it was on purpose but if it works it works. Then once I get some waypoints dropped I can start coming up with a planned route before hand. Then I can just check and move on if no fish are there. 

 

I love to geek out over these things

[casts_by_fly]

20 hours ago, JayMac89 said:

Interesting. Thanks for the input. 

 

I'm sure my approach will change as I get used to using electronics and as I become more familiar with certain lakes. 

 

But currently my plan was to use side imaging as I move about to get a broader view of what's around. Maybe go back over with down imaging if I see somthing interesting. Honestly will probably use the split screen and run both. Sort of an added benefit of going with the 93, bigger screen. Can't say it was on purpose but if it works it works. Then once I get some waypoints dropped I can start coming up with a planned route before hand. Then I can just check and move on if no fish are there. 

 

I love to geek out over these things

 

I have 3 preset buttons and those are 1- live, 2- side (70% split on top) with 2D and down on the bottom, and 3- live plus maps.  When I am motoring between spots I'll have it on #2.  Side imaging is my primary when I'm moving around and sometimes I'll even swap to 100% SI.  If I see something I'll waypoint it and either come back over with DI or just go straight to live plus maps so I can see the waypoint.  I like to have both 2D and DI on together because they do different things.  Sometimes I'll crank up the sensitivty on 2D to show the thermocline and I'll always turn on the fishID because it will pick that up where I might not notice it on DI on the small corner of the display.

 

You'll have to play with it and see what works best for you.

[Choporoz]

23 hours ago, JayMac89 said:

But currently my plan was to use side imaging as I move about to get a broader view of what's around. Maybe go back over with down imaging if I see somthing interesting.

My first reaction was, Good Luck!  Second, more thoughtful reaction was, 'Absolutely!'  Do it early and keep doing it until you can do it reliably.   It has taken me years to do this without spending an hour trying to understand a spot.... still don't do it all that well, especially in a kayak, but I wish I'd worked at it more.

  I can do it better in the boat, but sometimes it is crazy how hard it is to be sure I'm on top of something I saw on SI

[casts_by_fly]

1 hour ago, Choporoz said:

My first reaction was, Good Luck!  Second, more thoughtful reaction was, 'Absolutely!'  Do it early and keep doing it until you can do it reliably.   It has taken me years to do this without spending an hour trying to understand a spot.... still don't do it all that well, especially in a kayak, but I wish I'd worked at it more.

  I can do it better in the boat, but sometimes it is crazy how hard it is to be sure I'm on top of something I saw on SI

 

not sure which unit you're using, but on HBird and my helix I can cursor onto the thing I see and waypoint it.  For instance, I'm riding across the lake at 50' out on SI I see a rock pile.  As I'm motoring, I scan the cursor over to the rockpile itself and mark a waypoint.  The Helix takes note of my position and also where I marked to get an exact GPS mark on the rock pile.  From there, I will swap to map + DI or map + Live to motor over to the waypoint.  If its deeper then I might use DI and ride right across it.  If its less than 15' I won't risk spooking any fish on it.  In that case I'll stop at 50' using the casting rings on the map and spot lock, then sweep over it with live imaging to see what I saw.  It doesn't guarantee I'll catch any fish, but I can at least figure out what I see on the bottom and note it for future reference.  I have a couple lakes here that are generally shallow and flat bottom so any time I cross them I try to pick a different route each time so I will eventually mark everything interesting.

[JayMac89]

Little bit of an update. I got to use it this weekend, not a ton though. My main hobby/sport is surfing and we had some swell from tropical storm Debbie. But I did get out both Saturday and Sunday for about 4 hours each. A few things to mention...

 

1) the 9in screen is perfect. I was originally going to get a 7in. But for whatever reason (it wasn't a good one) I spent a little more for the 9. So happy I did. It's big enough that I can run side scan or a map on the top, 2D and down imaging split on the bottom, and see everything well. Small enough to not get in the way. Any bigger and it would. And any smaller and I think I would struggle to see comfortably. 9in is perfect

 

2) I got a few accessories from navare. The beef up plate and scupper transducer mount. I love navares stuff, but got to say I was very disappointed in the scupper mount. It works. But on the GT54 I had to spin it backwards then swap sides in the settings for side view. Not a big deal but bothers me. I also don't love the way it sits. Within a few minutes of installing I ordered the yak hobby mount. Saw reviews and it looks much much much better. The beef up plate however is up to par.

 

3) down and 2D work great. The side scan I need to mess with. Wasn't getting a great image. Not terrible, but not great. I feel I'll have to mess with the settings to dial it in. 

 

4) the unit as a whole is a game changer. Iv been fishing this deeper lake, has holes that go to 60+ feet deep. Even the shallows are 10-13 feet. Way different than im used to. Knowing my depth, seeing the grass line, yada yada. Very very cool and very happy with the purchase. Didn't catch any fish, I went an terrible times anyway and this is a tough lake. But very happy and see the potential. 

 

5) lastly, the battery. Noqua (or whatever) 10AH. Someone here mentioned possibly needing a bigger battery and was a bit worried. Well I didn't have a full charge (about 75%) when I randomly decided to go Saturday, 4hrs later with the unit on the whole time and I was still at 75%. Got home from surfing Sunday morning and quickly threw it on the charger (an hour or less), randomly decided to fish. Got another 4hrs in and it only got down to 50%. Seems like it'll have plenty of juice for me. Very happy with the compact size as well. 

 

Still messing around. If there's no waves this weekend I'll get out fishing again. Try and dial the settings in, maybe map out the lake, and test the battery life with a fully charged battery and longer outing.