ethics question

[king fisher]

I previously posted about a giant bass that tried to eat a 12.25 inch bass I had hooked on a Zoom Ole Monster.  The big bass engulfed the bass along with the worm and swam off.  I tried to hook the bass but failed, and was able to measure and release the smaller bass unharmed.  I do not feel trying to hook the larger bass was unethical, simply because I did not intentionally intend for the small bass to be bait.

 

The Bait Monkey instantly started screaming at me to buy an expensive glide bait in a baby bass color.  A practical voice in my head told me to start fishing with live bass, save money while kicking the Monkey out in the cold.  Another voice in my head told me that would not only be unethical, but not even in the least be considered a sporting way to fish for a bass.

 

It would be perfectly legal, to use a bass for bait, and the manger of the lake I fish at, wants people to kill every bass that is caught.  The bass were planted by bucket biologists, and he wants all of them gone.  I do release the bass I catch, and I think by now he realizes that the other sport anglers do too.

 

What do members think?  Would it be ethical to fish with a live bass?  Should I give in to the dark side, or should I consider even the thought as unsportsman like conduct and continue fishing with artificial baits only.  It is tempting to go over to the dark side just once.  After all the bass had zero difficulty eating a bass over 12 inches.  That is not your ordinary big bass. I could use a circle hook and release any of the big bass caught unharmed.  I might even be able to release the bass used as bait that doesn't get eaten by bigger bass.  I am truly haunted by the big bass that got away, but I am worried I might not even get a feeling of accomplishment if I catch a PB fishing a live bass.  I feel a clear conscience is far more important than even a 15 pound bass, but the dark side is strong.  I have always considered myself to be an true sportsman, and I don't want to tarnish my reputation as an angler because I got obsessed with one big bass.

 

I don't hesitate to use any type of live bait in Saltwater fishing, not because I feel it is ok, but because the Saltwater angling community as a whole does not seem to think there is anything wrong the method and,I learned to fish that way from my many mentors.

 

The bass fishing community as a whole has a much higher standard for what is considered sportsman like conduct.  I am curious what members here think.  Is it unethical?  Would a 15 pound bass caught in this manner be considered cheating.  What do you think.   I do want to catch a giant bass, but do not want to feel like I cheated doing it.  Would using tilapia for bait be considered OK? but using a small bass not be OK?  Where would you draw a line? is there a line?

 

One thing for sure the Bait Monkey is not going to talk me in to buying expensive glide baits and casting them into the trees where the big bass live.  I will probably simply keep buying and fishing traditional bass baits. I have found if I have to question whether something is ethical, it usually isn't.  I am interested in hearing what members think.

[Buzzbaiter]

If they want the bass gone from that pond, then do what you gotta do. I think nuisance species are fair game as bait and table fair. If the pond were managed specifically as a recreational bass fishery and killing “bait-sized” bass went against eh management plan, then that would be a different story.

 

As far as being sporting, that’s up to you. I’d prefer to catch a big fish on a bass imitation, but I wouldn’t turn down the opportunity to catch such a fish by livelining a small bass (granted that it’s legal, obviously). It’d make for an interesting story if nothing else. 
 

Bass are just another fish—widely introduced and not threatened. 

[The Budget Angler]

^This

 

If there are enough bass in the lake for them to become a preferred target of the big fish, you may be doing the big bass a favor, because those 12" bass will eventually get big enough to compete with the big mommas.  People use live sunfish all the time, so why not live bass?

 

Seems completely fine to me.

[gim]

I would personally not use a small bass hooked to try and catch a big one.  I think an artificial lure representing a small bass is much more sporting.  If there are too many small ones, then keeping a few is perfectly fine as it may be beneficial for the ecosystem as a whole.

 

Sitting there with live bait, although legal in many cases, is boring and not my cup of tea.  I've used big suckers for muskies in the fall and the suckers were very expensive at the bait shop.  I waited, drank some beer, waited some more, drank some more beer, and then gave up and went home without any bites.  I'm done with that type of fishing.

 

I'm sure some catfishermen would disagree with me here.

 

5 minutes ago, TheLastBestFish said:

People use live sunfish all the time

 

Not here they don't, its definitely not permitted.

[TLHSS]

I don't consider it unethical.  But for me, part of the fun of fishing is "fooling" the fish to take an artificial bait .... whether it's a bass taking a soft plastic craw, or a bluegill taking a dry fly.

 

I've even moved that way for saltwater fishing:

 

 

[MediumMouthBass]

Live bait in freshwater is usually more of a problem then anything.

Trying to keep it alive, keep it on the hook, and then waiting for hours and hours not doing anything.

Plus then getting upset by seeing a giant bass try to eat the live bait just to not get hooked, (happens quite a bit with bigger live bait).

 

Best thing to do would be to use some big swimbaits/glidebaits. They arent too expensive either, theres a ton of options now in the $10-30 area.

[fin]

Only you can answer that question. You can’t fool yourself. If you feel it’s not right, it doesn’t matter how anybody else feels about it.

 

I’ve considered live bait before, just as a learning experience, but I know myself well enough that I can’t go part-way into the rabbit hole, I have to go all the way. I also know if I experience something I like, I’m going to want more, and with some things, I’m better off just not knowing in the first place.

 

What is the pond supposed to be stocked with if the owner doesn’t want bass?

[The Budget Angler]

52 minutes ago, gimruis said:

Not here they don't, its definitely not permitted.

A lot of northern states don't allow live fish as bait.  I used to live in Montana where most places near me didn't even allow live worms, so I've done it both ways.  I've also sat at a lake and thrown around every lure I had and gotten skunked just to tie on a worm and pin one first cast.

 

The main reason I am so cavalier about him using a small bass as bait is that it's no different than using a sucker or a panfish, except that more people target bass.  In today's culture, I feel that bass are generally over-revered.  That fact is, they're just like any other fish and if people want to harvest them or use them as bait, they should be allowed to without feeling guilty.  Nobody feels bad about hooking small mackerel up as bait even though people cut their teeth to catch the big ones.

[Buzzbaiter]

34 minutes ago, MediumMouthBass said:

Live bait in freshwater is usually more of a problem then anything.

 
100% agree. This is why I don’t really understand when people say it’s cheating. In most instances, live bait is just a hassle. In OP’s case, I’d honestly feel more confident with a glide bait, and I don’t even throw glide baits. 

[king fisher]

2 minutes ago, fin said:

Only you can answer that question. You can’t fool yourself. If you feel it’s not right, it doesn’t matter how anybody else feels about it.

 

I’ve considered live bait before, just as a learning experience, but I know myself well enough that I can’t go part-way into the rabbit hole, I have to go all the way. I also know if I experience something I like, I’m going to want more, and with some things, I’m better off just not knowing in the first place.

 

What is the pond supposed to be stocked with if the owner doesn’t want bass?

It is a small public reservoir.  It was stocked with tilapia.  There are a certain number of local residents that are allowed to commercial fish with gill nets.  No one knows when, who or what sub species of bass were introduced.  The bass eat Tilapia so the commercial interests don't like bass.  A local fishing lodge has recently talked the community in to letting him take his clients to the lake, in exchange for a fee.  Other sport anglers are allowed to fish the lake, but cannot guide other anglers.  The lodge owner has exclusive rites to run any commercial sport fishing business.   The lake was fairly popular with the few Mexican bass fisherman that new about it.  The past couple years the catch rate of big bass has significantly gone down.  I don't think the lodge owner will fish there next season.  I didn't see many big bass posted on his website.   Not many people continue to fish there.  I was surprised to see another boat there, and they left by noon with a big skunk.  I had given up on the lake myself, but went last weekend because it is the closest lake to me, and the best time of year for that lake.  Fishing was slow as I had expected, but I never expected to have a bass of a lifetime eat another bass that was on my line.  I have new hope for the lake, but will have a hard time spending hours and hours fishing for only a few bites, with the memory of that bass in my head.  Most of the big bass I have caught previously in the lake have come from giant trees in deep water.  The bass suspend in the trees and are hard to reach with most lures.  I wouldn't be able retrieve glide baits through the branches, even if I could afford to do so.  I might be able to get a big bass to come close to the surface and hit a glide bait above the branches, but it would sure be less expensive to fish a live bass on a circle hook in the trees. 

[casts_by_fly]

I had a musky run down a 12” bass as I was bringing it in yesterday and only missed because I saw it and moved quicker. That put me down the path of expensive large bass flavored big baits and I too quickly decided against it. Musky have teeth after all. 
 

A bass, bluegill, minnow, or tilapia- doesn’t matter to me. If you want to use bait then use one as bait. Rainbow trout are popular live bait for stripers. Want to see someone’s eyes get red in anger?  Tell a trout fly fisherman you’re going to go catch a couple trout and use them as striper bait.

 

I generally don’t use live bait for bass because I want the challenge of catching them on lures. And I don’t want the hassle of getting and dealing with bait. In your case, why not grab some fresh tilapia for bait?  

[king fisher]

5 minutes ago, casts_by_fly said:

I had a musky run down a 12” bass as I was bringing it in yesterday and only missed because I saw it and moved quicker. That put me down the path of expensive large bass flavored big baits and I too quickly decided against it. Musky have teeth after all. 
 

A bass, bluegill, minnow, or tilapia- doesn’t matter to me. If you want to use bait then use one as bait. Rainbow trout are popular live bait for stripers. Want to see someone’s eyes get red in anger?  Tell a trout fly fisherman you’re going to go catch a couple trout and use them as striper bait.

 

I generally don’t use live bait for bass because I want the challenge of catching them on lures. And I don’t want the hassle of getting and dealing with bait. In your case, why not grab some fresh tilapia for bait?  

I would, but I haven't found a way to catch bait size tilapia.  I have tried minnow traps and hook and line.  I catch 12 inch bass all of the time.  I wouldn't even have to have a way to store the bait.  I could simply go fishing and when I catch a small bass, put a hook in it and see what happens.  What feels wrong to me is just the fact that I would be using the very same sport fish I'm trying to catch.  It's difficult for me to think bass are the greatest sportfish alive, and then put one on a hook for bait.  It is interesting reading how others view the subject.

[Woody B]

As long as the land/lake owner is OK with it, and it's not against the law I don't see why anyone should question ethics.   Go for it.  The bait monkey is too fat anyway.  

[LrgmouthShad]

Sure, why not. If you ain’t bothered by it then do it. I really am struggling to understand why the ‘ethics’ of using a live bass to hook bass are any different than using live bluegill to hook bass. Bass are sometimes cannibals and there’s nothing we can do to change that. 

[Buzzbaiter]

14 minutes ago, king fisher said:

It's difficult for me to think bass are the greatest sportfish alive

That’s subjective. They’re just a fish. I love bass, but wouldn’t hold that as a reason not to kill one if I had reason to (granted that it’s legal and sustainable, obviously). For instance, I think white perch are pretty awesome fish, but I didn’t flinch when I put a circle hook in one last week to liveline for rockfish. A fish is a fish. Still, if you’re uncomfortable with it, then don’t do it; there’s nothing wrong with standing on morals.

 

21 minutes ago, king fisher said:

I would, but I haven't found a way to catch bait size tilapia

Cast nets are your friend

[king fisher]

6 minutes ago, Buzzbaiter said:

Cast nets are your friend

If I got caught with a cast net at this lake, I would be banned from the lake.  The commercial Tilapia fisherman are very protective of their lake.

[Dwight Hottle]

I don't think using live bait is unethical any more than using artificials. Some times it is more effective & sometimes not. We all know that big bass eat little bass & the primary food source in most Mexican waters is tilapia. But if catching them in the size you want to use is not easy then the easy caught small bass would be the ticket. As long as your not breaking any laws & the owner has said he would prefer you kill all bass I say go for it. Some people look down on live bait catches versus artificials but only your opinion matters. My four biggest largemouth have been caught equally between lures & live bait so I haven't found one method more productive than another for PB's.   

[GreenPig]

Unethical? No. I only use artificial for bass. I will use small Spots for Flatheads.

[fin]

Ignoring the ethical question, if the bass population is really on the decline like you said, you might spend a long time trying to catch one even with a live bass for bait. I don't have any idea how often bass eat bass, but I think what you saw was a jealous, greedy, reaction bite. I wouldn't think the fact you had a bass for bait was the reason it got bit. I doubt they are a preferred target, especially in that lake. A bass on a circle hook is probably not going to be very attractive.

 

 

[PhishLI]

3 hours ago, king fisher said:

I have found if I have to question whether something is ethical, it usually isn't. 

If the idea makes you feel creepy, then don't do it. If it doesn't, then have at it.

[casts_by_fly]

58 minutes ago, king fisher said:

It's difficult for me to think bass are the greatest sportfish alive, 

I think we’ve found the problem that actually needs a solution.  As a saltwater guy I’m surprised you’d even start to think that. 

[gim]

2 hours ago, TheLastBestFish said:

The main reason I am so cavalier about him using a small bass as bait is that it's no different than using a sucker or a panfish

Except that suckers are legal, panfish aren’t. It’s the dorsal spine that causes issue. That’s why soft rayed suckers are permitted while panfish aren’t for muskie fishing. If a muskie swallows a sunfish or crappie backwards, it chokes because it gets stuck in the throat.

 

Whether or not that’s the case with a big bass trying to swallow a smaller one as bait as the OP asked, I don’t know.

 

Bring beer to drink while you wait…and wait.

[The Budget Angler]

3 hours ago, gimruis said:

Except that suckers are legal, panfish aren’t

Depends on state/region/area.  It's completely legal in NC.  And I usually bring another pole with lures on it, just in case

[Jmilburn76]

I personally wouldn’t do it but don’t have an issue with anyone else doing it. As long as they are being legal and following their states laws and also has a valid fishing license.

[Zcoker]

Looks like you said it yourself, already made the decision "I feel a clear conscience is far more important than even a 15 pound bass, but the dark side is strong."  Luke Skywalker, man, resist that dark side!