Livescope vs old ways

[GoneFishingLTN]

I'm currently running into an issue with my style of fishing. I've been fishing like most of you here with spinnerbaits, crankbaits, etc. However, there's no denying that most tournament anglers have switched mainly to finesse fishing while utilizing LiveScope. I still use LiveScope with my older style baits, but it's more for seeing the cover and casting to it, rather than trying to follow my lure the whole time.

Lately, I've switched to what most are doing because I mainly want to improve if that's where the game is heading. However, I'm having trouble due to wanting to cast right up in that 5-foot zone where I've caught some nice fish before (some of our lakes don't have a lot of great structure out deep).

 

I also am struggling with the wind I'm casting into it and facing into it but having trouble tracking my lure 

[gim]

Are you still catching sizable fish and competing the "old school way?"

 

If the answer is yes, then keep at it.  If the answer is no, then you may need to go further down the rabbit hole.  I am still catching fish the old school way.  Would I win a tournament doing it?  Probably not.

[GoneFishingLTN]

3 minutes ago, gimruis said:

Are you still catching sizable fish and competing the "old school way?"

 

If the answer is yes, then keep at it.  If the answer is no, then you may need to go further down the rabbit hole.  I am still catching fish the old school way.  Would I win a tournament doing it?  Probably not.

I'm doing better the old school way but it's probably because I've had way more time with it in my hands 

[casts_by_fly]

You're me last year.  I upgraded to mega live on my kayak.  I don't fish tournaments, but I fish a tournament style.  Last year I used live scope primarily as I was going down the bank with it angled ahead of me on a 45 degree angle or so.  I'd use it to see cover and weed lines to know where I wanted to put my bait that wasn't at the visible cover.  Occasionally I would use it to track my actual bait or look for fish on isolated cover.  Sounds like a lot of what you're doing.

 

This year I still do that when I'm fishing the bank or fishing to cover I know.  Some places I don't even look at it because I know them so well.  Where I've changed though is that now on some lakes I will make an active choice to go 'hunting'.  When the bank isn't producing (which has been a whole lot of this year) and I start looking off shore, instead of blindly fishing the points and drops I sit back in my chair and start motoring at 2 mph or so and sweeping the transducer, all with a jighead minnow in hand.  

 

Is it an improvement?  Sometimes and maybe.  It is an completely additional way to fish.  There are still fish on the bank to be caught and depending on the lake live imaging might be useless to you (a couple of my lakes are like that).  Then again there are also roamers and cruisers to target.  And fishing offshore structure with livescope is a different experience than fishing it 'blind'.  After a year and a half of it now I like both for different reasons/things.  

[Catt]

Yeah I do both but way more old school. As @casts_by_fly mentioned it helps to really know your body of water. I know Toledo that well, even offshore.

 

I'm using side imaging more than FFS. Lures are still old school; Texas Rig, Jig-n-Craw, Carolina Rig, deep diving crankbaits, ; swim baits. 

[Bankc]

I think FFS is best used when the fishing gets tough.  The old ways work better when the bite is good.  FFS can often cause you to get tunnel vision and locked into bad patterns if you're not careful.  Think of it more as a backup plan, rather than plan A.  If the old ways are working, then stick with the old ways.  Don't try to fix what ain't broken.  But if it's not, then go to the FFS and see what it tells you. 

[Reel]

You can fish crankbaits and you can fish swimbaits.

You can fish points and you can fish weedlines.

 

You can also fish ... fish !

[Texas Flood]

I fished a tournament about a month ago. Only used FFS when fishing deep brush piles. Most of the fish were pushed in the back of coves after a big storm, so all we needed were our flippin sticks.

 

 

We have another tournament 4th of July weekend and Im sure the FFS will get used more(depending on weather)

[WRB]

Bass don’t change their behavior because you put FFS/Live Scope on your boat.

The suspended bass have always been there and ignored by most anglers.

Back in the day trollers would blindly run across suspended bass in no man’s land.

Dick Trask dominated western bass tournaments using dart jigs w/ 4” to 5” curl tail worms targeting suspended bass off shore… way ahead of his time.

FFS requires skilled boat control to stay casting distance off the bass using finesse small plastics.

Forgotten is the Scrounger jig with Sluggo trailer that has the same roll/wiggle the FFS anglers are using now with 90 degree hook eye ball heads with minnow soft plastics. 
FFS is tool to locate bass it’s up to you to use lures the bass will strike where they are located.

Tom

[Bird]

I still think casting to visible cover is more efficient than looking for fish on a screen.

Old school here for the duration.

[Woody B]

I sue FFS but don't own any of the fancy new finesse "FFS" lures.   

 

FFS is useful shallow as well as deep.   This time of year, when I pull up on a stump covered flat I'm pretty sure there's Bass there.  FFS allows me to cast to the individual stump the biggest Bass is at, instead of spooking it just blindly casting.   Same goes for dock pillings, lay downs ect.  

[casts_by_fly]

59 minutes ago, Bird said:

I still think casting to visible cover is more efficient than looking for fish on a screen.

Old school here for the duration.

efficient?  No chance. I guess maybe it depends on the amount of visible cover you have. If it’s a lake with only a little cover then hitting the couple lay downs that are there would be great. But for going down the bank and targeting cover vs  casting at fish you find on ffs?  Definitely more efficient (fewer casts and less time per fish) with ffs.  

[Bird]

19 minutes ago, casts_by_fly said:

efficient?  No chance. I guess maybe it depends on the amount of visible cover you have. If it’s a lake with only a little cover then hitting the couple lay downs that are there would be great. But for going down the bank and targeting cover vs  casting at fish you find on ffs?  Definitely more efficient (fewer casts and less time per fish) with ffs.  

A fair statement.

 

Yes the lakes I fish have quite a bit of visible cover, blow downs, standing timber, stumps, etc.

Some of the lakes are very deep and clear " well over 100 ft " so finding offshore fish is next to impossible, I'd think.

[GoneFishingLTN]

14 hours ago, WRB said:

Bass don’t change their behavior because you put FFS/Live Scope on your boat.

The suspended bass have always been there and ignored by most anglers.

Back in the day trollers would blindly run across suspended bass in no man’s land.

Dick Trask dominated western bass tournaments using dart jigs w/ 4” to 5” curl tail worms targeting suspended bass off shore… way ahead of his time.

FFS requires skilled boat control to stay casting distance off the bass using finesse small plastics.

Forgotten is the Scrounger jig with Sluggo trailer that has the same roll/wiggle the FFS anglers are using now with 90 degree hook eye ball heads with minnow soft plastics. 
FFS is tool to locate bass it’s up to you to use lures the bass will strike where they are located.

Tom

FFS is just a tool, and I completely agree that bass don’t change their behavior. However, my only rebuttal is this: why do you think tournaments are still being won using it, with baits like a Damiki rig during the spawn? 
 

I feel good using the Livescope and finding fish, but I guess the issue might be my skill with finesse lures. I just feel like I’m wasting too much time using them. For example, I went fishing last week when the water clarity was around 1 foot. I fished at 8 feet or less and couldn’t get anything to bite in the 3 hours I tried. So, I switched to a chatterbait and started fishing the bank, and slowly started catching some bass.
 

any advice on not wasting a ton of time using these styles of lures?

 

[Catt]

1 hour ago, GoneFishingLTN said:

any advice on not wasting a ton of time using these styles of lures?

 

Stop throwing em 😉

[Tennessee Boy]

There is this perception that fishing baits like the Damiki rig utilizing FFS have made all other ways of fishing obsolete.  This was debated at length earlier this year when some major tournaments were won by young anglers using these techniques.   One thread was suggesting that every pro tournament this year would be won with a Damiki rig.  I don’t think anyone’s mind was changed on this subject after endless debates.  If you think the Damiki rig and FFS has permanently changed fishing then I guess the answer is just keep fishing it until you master it.   Personally,  I think it’s like every other technique.  It works sometimes and sometimes it doesn’t.   It’s up to me to find the technique that works.  Around here it’s been my experience that targeting suspended fish is only effective in the winter and early spring.  I’m not say you can’t catch one in the summer but you will need to make a lot more cast to do so.

[padon]

7 minutes ago, Tennessee Boy said:

There is this perception that fishing baits like the Damiki rig utilizing FFS has made all other ways of fishing obsolete.  This was debated at length earlier this year when some major tournaments were won by young anglers using this technique.   One thread was suggesting that every pro tournament this year would be won with a Damiki rig.  I don’t think anyone’s mind was changed on this subject after endless debates.  If you think the Damiki rig and FFS has permanently changed fishing then I guess the answer is just keep fishing it until you figure it out.   Personally,  I think it’s like every other technique.  It works sometimes and sometimes it doesn’t.   It’s up to me to find the technique that works.  Around here it’s been my experience that targeting suspended fish is only effective in the winter and early spring.  I’m not say you can’t catch one in the summer but you will need to make a lot more cast to do so.

exactly . and remeber the stuff you see watching the big tournaments is different than us weekend fisherman. The tournament may have been won using ffs on suspended fish but that doesnt mean a guy couldnt have had a good day fishing the old school way. you may not catch 25 pounds but you may catch 18 and still have a solid fun day of fishing.

[TnRiver46]

3 hours ago, GoneFishingLTN said:

why do you think tournaments are still being won using it, with baits like a Damiki rig during the spawn? 
 

 

 

Because spawning fish are extremely difficult to catch, it can take an hour to get a single fish from what I’ve heard. You can catch a limit and be culling in that amount of time on a school of feeding fish 

[casts_by_fly]

3 hours ago, GoneFishingLTN said:

FFS is just a tool, and I completely agree that bass don’t change their behavior. However, my only rebuttal is this: why do you think tournaments are still being won using it, with baits like a Damiki rig during the spawn? 
 

I feel good using the Livescope and finding fish, but I guess the issue might be my skill with finesse lures. I just feel like I’m wasting too much time using them. For example, I went fishing last week when the water clarity was around 1 foot. I fished at 8 feet or less and couldn’t get anything to bite in the 3 hours I tried. So, I switched to a chatterbait and started fishing the bank, and slowly started catching some bass.
 

any advice on not wasting a ton of time using these styles of lures?

 

 

1' of water visibility and I'm not bothering with a 3" minnow that has no sonic profile in the water and that you'd have to put on the fish's nose for him to see and eat with FFS.  Certainly not on my kayak where fish move, the boat moves, you move, and the transducer has to move to keep up with all of it (and I have to make that movement while at the same time casting to fish).  There would be no margin for error with only 1' of visibility.  In that scenario a jerkbait is going to be a much better choice or even a spinnerbait.  

 

Look at the conditions the pro's were fishing at the start of the year and what fish they were targetting.  It was pretty clean water and prespawn fish that were eating (not spawning bass) in open water.  Look at last year's tournaments where FFS was winning and it was more of the same- cleaner water (the cleaner the better) and bass that are chasing/following bait.  In that case, if you know and can see that fish are actively eating why would you not try to catch those fish?

 

Like others have said, its a tool for certain conditions.  Clearer water, deeper water, open water are all good options.  Muddy, shallow, weedy, brushy, and negative mood fish tight to cover are less optimal conditions.  Sure there are other cases where it works (look at Scott Martin on the opens at Okeechobee this year) but as a general rule stick to cleaner stuff.

[Catt]

The bass on Toledo Bend are back out on summer structure. The old school football jigs, Carolina Rigs, swimbaits, & deep diving crankbaits.

 

That's with FFS! 😉

[Team9nine]

4 hours ago, GoneFishingLTN said:

I feel good using the Livescope and finding fish, but I guess the issue might be my skill with finesse lures. I just feel like I’m wasting too much time using them. For example, I went fishing last week when the water clarity was around 1 foot. I fished at 8 feet or less and couldn’t get anything to bite in the 3 hours I tried. So, I switched to a chatterbait and started fishing the bank, and slowly started catching some bass.
 

any advice on not wasting a ton of time using these styles of lures?

Reverse your process? Given that water color, start on the bank and work shallow first (eliminate the shallows) before moving out deeper and trying to scope. And/or limit your time doing unproductive things (finesse scoping in this case). If no bites in an hour, try something else. No reason to go 3 hours w/o a bite doing the same thing all that time unless you’re simply committed to learning and willing to go biteless in the effort.  

[bp_fowler]

I don’t have a boat, but I’ve been a guest on other people’s boats. 
 

I’ve seen those guys have a good day fishing the old fashioned way, and I’ve seen them have good day using their electronics.

 

I’ve also seen those same guys get skunked fishing the old fashioned ways and get skunked using their electronics.

 

The fish still get a vote.

[Swamp Girl]

I've had good luck this Spring fishing places where bass boats festooned with electronics couldn't go, i.e. shallow ponds, bogs, and swamps at the ends of meandering dirt paths or streams. Accurate casting is key. The land and water approaches deny bigger boats and often the water is too shallow for bigger boats once you're there. I'm casting in a foot of water to slim slots. If you miss the slot, you ruined that chance. I might cast into a bush once per fishing session.

 

My point is that there are places  where FFS is useless and I fish those places. There are a lot of bass in such places, but you have to be soooooo quiet and accurate. Most sessions,  I bump into a bass with the bow of my canoe because they don't know I'm there. There are places where there isn't even room to turn my canoe around and I have to back paddle out. Come summer, I'll be fishing bogs where there might be two feet of water, even though the bottom is six to ten feet down. 

 

[Koz]

In the mornings I’ll crash the banks and sea walls and while my FFS may be on I don’t really use it.

 

But I do use it to eliminate water when fishing points and deeper water and to locate schools of bait fish.

 

What i haven’t seen is suspended bass in deeper water. I’ve seen catfish just idling around, but the bass seem to be always on the move. Maybe I’ll see them once the water heats up in the summer or gets cold in the winter.

 

Seeing moving baits is hit and miss, but that’s mainly because my kayak drifts and my bait gets outside the sonar cone. But if my cast stays in the cone I usually see the bait.

 

FFS isn’t great in shallow water so I’m trying to use perspective mode in those cases , but I’ve only done that a few times.

[flatcreek]

Old school all the way