Found out today type and design of hook can really, REALLY matter

[CDMTJager]

It need not be explained how important using the correct hook for a given application is of the utmost importance. I just never realized till my last fishing trip this evening how important the same type of hook but of a different manufacturer and design can literally make or break your fishing. In other words not all hooks of a specific type made by different hook manufactures of their unique design will work equally well for THAT specific application.

 

I decided to finally give a soft plastic fluke a try T-rigged weedless due to my chatterbaits, spinnerbaits and willowchatters all getting to much weeds on them. Yes I was catching very good numbers of bass, but every cast I was cleaning weeds off my luers. I looked in my small tackle organizer for hooks and pulled out an Gamakatsu 3/0 superline twist lock hook and rigged up a 4" Bass Pro shad bait and proceeded to absolutely murder the bass. I chose this hook because it had a reputation for holding the the soft plastic very well and it was light enough to have minimal affects on a flukes action and allowed it to sink while gliding. It more than lived up to its reputation. I also didn't hesitate to set the hook I just reeled down and set the hook. Awesome performing hook. Literally caught a bass first cast, then eight more in rapid succession. Then I got lazy and after my 8th or ninthe bass didn't re-rig as is my SOP because I was using only 8lb copolymer and my line broke before the knot when I got my ninth and largest bass for the evening to the shore and was trying to pick it up to release it. At least I kept my Sampo BB swivel.

 

Now I had to re-rig. Unfortunately I couldn't find any more Gamakatsu Superline twist lock hooks in my T-boxes, so I used a 3/0 twist lock hook of a different manufacturer and it was blindingly obvious the design was MUCH different and about 70-80% heavier than that of the Gamakatsu and of a significantly different design over all, but I used it anyway. I then had five instances were bass hit my fluke so hard as to remove all doubt it was a fish biting the luer not contact with a weed, I set the hook and didn't nail the fish. I even tried giving the fish 2-3 seconds after it hit to give it time to get the luer positioned correctly in its mouth before I set the hook but no dice.

 

Then went to a traditional 3/0 offset hook fished it same way, but essentially same results. Then I tried a Gamakatsu Nano Alpha EWG and still missed my first two fish, then it dawned on me again to let the fish have the bait at least 3 seconds before I set the hook (something I didn't have to do with the Gamakatsu screw lock hook) and my hook up percentage went up to over 90%. These bass were all big time ariel acrobats with all of them getting airborne repeatedly before I could land them.

 

So I came away with three lessons about hooks to night

#1 not all hooks of a specific type are made to the same design weight and dimensions

#2 Some hook designs just work a whole lot better than others as in 10x better

#3 If you're rigging up using a hook very specific to a type of bait to be fished a very specific way make absolutely sure you a goodly number of them in your tackle. 

Like to add a #4

#4 if you're slaying the bass and are using light line especially if using line at or under 10lb test or like me only using 8lb test line good idea to re-tie often.

[Glenn]

Yep, I couldn't agree more!  

[CDMTJager]

Went to my local Cabela's today before I went fishing in hopes their WS was was correct that listed Gamakatsu Superline 3/0 screw lock hooks as in stock. Unfortunately there was only a single 5 pack in stock. Then I recalled a Nathan Quince video I watched last year on rigging and fishing flukes and he recommended a Owner TwistLock light hook and I bought all they had. Used them today with a BP Sassy Shad fluke bait and they worked every bit as good as the Gamakatsu Screw Lock hooks.

Tonight was much less productive than last night only four bass. Caught the first bass first cast watched him fallow my fluke and I waited until it passed into an area open all the way to the bottom let the fluke drop, watched him suck it up and I got him. That was about 5:45P the other three bass all were caught after 7pm and before 8pm I could tell bass were herding minnows based on very large numbers of minnows leaping out of the water and seeing bass hitting them on the surface. BIG difference tonight VS last night was tonight there were 17-20mph SSE winds creating A LOT of wave chop and made casting accurately all but impossible. 

[RRocket]

12 hours ago, CDMTJager said:

 he recommended a Owner TwistLock light hook

This is my favorite hook.

[CDMTJager]

5 hours ago, RRocket said:

This is my favorite hook.

On that note I will buy quite a few more as the Owner Twist Lock Lite hook as they worked very well for me and my sons will now start fishing flukes and SB's as soon as they can. I just ordered bulk flukes from Bitters to help offset the cost at over 60c each three people all fishing them from the same supply the cost in lost or no longer usable flukes will add up quickly. While on a recent short fishing trip to Ohio (my son wanted to go to Cedar Point AP) after my son and I stumbled onto some quite good very small bass lakes and a marina shore wall of small boulders, after only two days of dawn till dusk fishing the bass tore the paddles off over 20 paddle tailed baits we were using as trailers on our chatterbaits. All were two different styles of 4" Keitech paddle tail baits. Made me wish I had some 3" baits with. Although I had some perfect sized ones with, unfortunately weeds were to thick to add a treble stinger hook, if I could have our bass catch would've more than doubled. 

[RRocket]

6 minutes ago, CDMTJager said:

. All were two different styles of 4" Keitech paddle tail baits. 

I used to use Keitechs. But exclusively use OSP Dolive Shad now. Excellent swimbait.

 

 

 Also, here's a little post I wrote on the hooks.

 

[LrgmouthShad]

Owner twistlock light hooks are what I use for weightless 5” senkos and they get em good. I do often get more bites while using that hook on a senko compared to other hooks.

[Bass Rutten]

The 3/32 weighted owner twist lock light works great on soft jerks as well for working deeper, or faster at a given depth. The weighted 4/0 paired with the bigger caffeine shad is money on the drop, it shimmys just like a yamamoto senko.

[Mike L]

Different hooks for different plastics take time, trail and error to gain the confidence in them as is done for the plastics itself. 

Once you find the right match and your confidence builds you don’t even consider others. 
That really is nothing new. 
 

I use the twist locks with cps only fir Skinny Dippers and the Big EZ. 
 

Years ago I switched all sick baits to the Skip Gap as nothing holds them straighter. 
 

All others get the Trokar line  

 

 

 

 

Mike
 

 

[scaleface]

I'm still looking for the ultimate texas rig worm hook. I Imagine I always will be. 

[CDMTJager]

Again thanks for all the replies. I am in utter amazement how much more I have learned about bass fishing, but much more amazing was just how little I knew and now become more educated about bass fishing in the last 4 years and especially the last two years than the previous 30. I did have a period of about 10 years decades prior to the concept of the internet when I subscribed to the original InFisherman and that magazine did improve my fishing abilities a great deal. But then what happens to all men who love fishing and do fishing trips all over America and to Canada, talking fly in trips, canoe trips etc fishing trips for bass walleye, salmon trout etc, I got married and had kids and took a new job that for many years left me minimal time for family and even less for my two loves of my life prior to fatherhood, hunting and fishing.   

 

Now thankfully my off days have increased by a factor of 3x to more off days now than ever while being married and I'm back into fishing and hunting as much as I can.

 

And yes I have found getting better at fishing is like everything else in life it's going to take time and trial and error and time to build knowledge and knowledge becomes confidence. I already am at least 3x more successful of a bass fisherman than I was even two years ago and my versatility in using different lures and presentations has gone up at least 5x greater than it was just five years ago. 

 

My ONLY complaint is just how bloody awful expensive fishing lures and terminal gear has become, and being a shore fisherman losing lures and terminal gear is unavoidable. 

Because the overwhelming majority of the lakes I fish have vegetation beginning in April and by may are mostly taken over by it till deer season takes me from fishing, using soft plastics rigged weedless is my primary fishing method 90% of the time and I am absolutely shocked at the cost of soft plastics now. But these same soft plastics, especially using newer presentations like drop-shot and free-rig,  just catch the heck out of the bass so it's just the cost of our hobbie.

4 minutes ago, scaleface said:

I'm still looking for the ultimate texas rig worm hook. I Imagine I always will be. 

You ever consider getting rich creating your own?

[roadwarrior]

On 5/23/2024 at 9:59 AM, scaleface said:

I'm still looking for the ultimate texas rig worm hook. I Imagine I always will be. 

 

https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Gamakatsu_Offset_EWG_Worm_Hooks_Black/descpage-GOSWG.html?from=gpmax&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0ruyBhDuARIsANSZ3wrnZ_6KLMOMAji7vxgAgwLbaPl8yZd8Va7GvhmrRJmusHEAg9pbdYYaAtHwEALw_wcB

[RRocket]

2 hours ago, Bass Rutten said:

 with the bigger caffeine shad is money on the drop, it shimmys just like a yamamoto senko.

This is exactly what the Dolive Stick does.

 

And it does it Texas or Wacky rigged. 

 

So I use it either as a "worm" or a swim bait.

 

An exceptional, multiuse plastic bait IMO.

 

 

[CDMTJager]

I do not agree (meant) DISagree it looks to be a fantastic performing luer but does it catch at least 4x more bass than a fluke that it costs 5x as much?

To me cost takes a back seat to effectiveness. I absolutely will not hesitate to spend 2-3x more money to increase my success by 100%. 

But this bait costs $1.57c each VS bulk flukes costing .32c each. Again this is in my opinion a matter of cost effectiveness not just cost.

Anyone seen this luer on a day to day basis have a consistent catch ratio of at least 3x greater than flukes or paddle tailed swimbaits there by justifying its near 500% higher price tag? 

Bare in mind this is not a bait that can be reused during 100s of fishing outings it is by its very design entirely disposable and meant to be discarded after a very finite and limited number of uses. 

[Bass Rutten]

I have not used the dolive stick, but from it's looks it has a very similar body and tail shape as well as action as the caffeine shad which costs out in between them at a more digestible $.87 each, or $6.99 for an 8 pack. Does it catch 63.3% more fish per bait? Only one way to find out.

 

I also discovered an alternative retrieve that has caught fish when jerking it ain't getting them; the weighted hook/caffeine shad combo when straight and steady reeled at the right speed will do a seductive side to side motion similar to a hard glide bait.

[RRocket]

8 hours ago, CDMTJager said:

I do not agree (meant) DISagree it looks to be a fantastic performing luer but does it catch at least 4x more bass than a fluke that it costs 5x as much?

To me cost takes a back seat to effectiveness. I absolutely will not hesitate to spend 2-3x more money to increase my success by 100%. 

But this bait costs $1.57c each VS bulk flukes costing .32c each. Again this is in my opinion a matter of cost effectiveness not just cost.

Anyone seen this luer on a day to day basis have a consistent catch ratio of at least 3x greater than flukes or paddle tailed swimbaits there by justifying its near 500% higher price tag? 

Bare in mind this is not a bait that can be reused during 100s of fishing outings it is by its very design entirely disposable and meant to be discarded after a very finite and limited number of uses. 

There are ways I fish this that your typical fluke doesn't do well...or do at all.

 

For example, I also use this as my wacky worm. Wacky hook in the middle and on the weightless drop, it shimmies like a Senko (better IMO). Your typical fluke doesn't do that well...and some not at all.

 

I also prefer this over a fluke as my chatterbait trailer. Again, I find this superior. There are some important subtleties that aren't apparent until you fish these.

 

I'm a minimalist too so having baits that can fill several different roles very well is worth it to me.

 

It means I don't need to carry as many baits, keeps my pack lighter, less inventory, etc

 

But by all means...you do you and continue to enjoy your flukes.

[CDMTJager]

10 hours ago, Mike L said:

Different hooks for different plastics take time, trail and error to gain the confidence in them as is done for the plastics itself. 

Once you find the right match and your confidence builds you don’t even consider others. 
That really is nothing new. 
 

I use the twist locks with cps only fir Skinny Dippers and the Big EZ. 
 

Years ago I switched all sick baits to the Skip Gap as nothing holds them straighter. 
 

All others get the Trokar line  

 

 

 

 

Mike
 

 

Just so happens I have 3/0 skip gap hooks I think a 25 pack of them will have to give them a try.

15 minutes ago, RRocket said:

There are ways I fish this that your typical fluke doesn't do well...or do at all.

 

For example, I also use this as my wacky worm. Wacky hook in the middle and on the weightless drop, it shimmies like a Senko (better IMO). Your typical fluke doesn't do that well...and some not at all.

 

I also prefer this over a fluke as my chatterbait trailer. Again, I find this superior.

 

I'm a minimalist so having baits that can fill several different roles very well is worth it to me.

 

It means I don't need to carry as many baits, keeps my pack lighter, less inventory, etc

 

But by all means...you do you.

I'll give pack a try and see.

I guess maybe not. Can not find them in stock anywhere.

[Bazoo]

I very much appreciate this discussion, as I'm just starting to use flukes, and just starting to experiment with different hooks as well. Thank you for sharing your experiences.

[RRocket]

22 minutes ago, CDMTJager said:

 

I'll give pack a try and see.

I guess maybe not. Can not find them in stock anywhere.

I think before buying them it's important to consider how YOU fish and what techniques YOU use.

 

You quite astutely point out it's unlikely to catch magnitudes more fish in how you currently use your flukes. However, I fish the Free Rig and the weightless drop portion of the presentation is important and here the Dolive Stick is superior.

 

And as pointed out earlier it's also superior weightless wacky rigged compared to your typical fluke.

 

But all of this is meaningless if those aren't styles you regularly fish.

 

And FWIW, I end up with the baits I use without regard to cost. I test them first in a pool or deep tank, then test it extensively in the field. That is to say, I don't end up with the baits I use by accident. I certainly do wish the cheapest baits worked as well for my specific uses! 

 

I recently switched over from Keitechs, too. Something I thought would never happen...

[CDMTJager]

21 hours ago, RRocket said:

I think before buying them it's important to consider how YOU fish and what techniques YOU use.

 

You quite astutely point out it's unlikely to catch magnitudes more fish in how you currently use your flukes. However, I fish the Free Rig and the weightless drop portion of the presentation is important and here the Dolive Stick is superior.

 

And as pointed out earlier it's also superior weightless wacky rigged compared to your typical fluke.

 

But all of this is meaningless if those aren't styles you regularly fish.

 

And FWIW, I end up with the baits I use without regard to cost. I test them first in a pool or deep tank, then test it extensively in the field. That is to say, I don't end up with the baits I use by accident. I certainly do wish the cheapest baits worked as well for my specific uses! 

 

I recently switched over from Keitechs, too. Something I thought would never happen...

Thank you for your honest and well written insiteful reply. As I have said before I am literally 10 minutes from getting a luer in the water from my home, 5 if I bring a bike with me to minimize my walk. And as I said previously this lake has a very good density of 2lb+ to 3lb bass and I don't know the why of it but I now catch at least 10 bass over 2lbs for every bass I catch under 1lb, I suspect it is because I stopped using night crawlers three years ago and night crawlers under a slip bobber were my bass offering of choice at least 50% of the time. I know of multiple spots where I can always get a bass or three so accurately test out the effectiveness of a new luer especially a new soft plastic is relatively easy task for me.

 

I have yet to try out a drop shot rig or a wacky rig. I have brand new dedicated spincasting setups actually for both sitting in my rod rack in my basement. I have a good varied selection of weights and hooks specifically designed for both as well as a few soft plastics designed for both, I just haven't gotten around to trying either system out. Now that besides top water lures, I am going almost exclusively soft plastics in the lakes I fish due to essentially no other viable option due to weed growth from now till cooler temp come and kill off the weeds I will absolutely try out both the DS and wacky rigs. 

[CDMTJager]

22 hours ago, Bazoo said:

I very much appreciate this discussion, as I'm just starting to use flukes, and just starting to experiment with different hooks as well. Thank you for sharing your experiences.

My pleasure to share my at this point limited experiences of a novice fluke fisherman. My novice advice is if you must go weedless as I must, absolutely do not hesitate to experiment with what weedless hook design will serve you best. As I stated above I ended up trying out four different hooks specifically designed for a weedles application in one outing, found two that didn't perform to an acceptable level and two that did, one clearly out performed all three other hook designs. Then I tried a forth because I couldn't get the one I liked most and it performed as well if not better than my previous favorite. 

 

To date I have tried five size 3/0 worm hooks with my flukes and the only two of the five I will actually use are:

Gamakatsu Super Line Twist Lock and an Owner Twist Lock Light Hook. Bare in mind there are unquestionably other worm hooks that will work at least as well possibly better, I'm just sharing my limited experience of what worm hooks used with 5"-6" flukes worked for me, but they did work VERY well and if I did my part correctly I enjoyed at least a 75% hook up ration over all. That doesn't mean I landed 75% because I didn't as several managed to get off. Now I did state I failed to hook up with a large number of hits at first, but if I am honest about it 80% at least of my missed hits were me reaction setting the hook to quickly without ever having reeled down to remove all slack. I found if I waited a literal 1001-02-03 count while simultaneously reeling down to remove all slack from the line then use a hard smooth sweeping motion to set the hook I hooked about 7 out of 10 fish. 

I plan on continuing to try different worm hooks to see if any can work better than what I currently use.