Levelwind reel making noises

[CatfishAndBass]

My levelwind reel is making noises when I cast it. I think the cause is dirty brakes or dry spool. How do I fix it?

[CatfishAndBass]

I really need help with it

[MN Fisher]

2 minutes ago, CatfishAndBass said:

I really need help with it

Brand and model of the reel would be a help for diagnosis.

[CatfishAndBass]

3 minutes ago, MN Fisher said:

Brand and model of the reel would be a help for diagnosis.

I’m using it for striped bass, so it’s not gonna be what you expect. It is a Mad Katz Xalt 6550. But if you don’t know that. It is just a basic Levelwind round reel.

[MN Fisher]

Round reels aren't my thing - Calling @bulldog1935 - you're our round reel expert here.

[dodgeguy]

Pull the spool out and oil it. Do you know what kind of brakes it has? Either that or send to Delaware Valley Tackle

[CatfishAndBass]

5 minutes ago, dodgeguy said:

Pull the spool out and oil it. Do you know what kind of brakes it has? Either that or send to Delaware Valley Tackle

What parts of the spool?

 

[bulldog1935]

Your reel appears to be a dressed-up, re-labeled, Ambassadeur 6500C3.  

The easy possibility is the spool is not centered, so the spool pin is impacting the pinion gear - too easy to do overtightening the palm-side thumb nut for brakes.  To test this, open both thumb nuts a couple of turns - try casting with the reel tilted to either side.  When the palm side is up, the spool pin will impact the pinion gear - if this is the sound, tighten the drive-side thumb nut until it goes away.  Then tighten the palm side to incipient side play in freespool, or to your casting brake setting.  

 

Second possibility is a little more esoteric, and should be intermittent - doesn't make the ratchet sound sound every cast.  

If the clutch is not fully disengaging, the pinion does not lift completely from the spool pin, and you get the same sound.  

 

If this is the case, the drive cover will need to come off for maintenance, and possible part replacement.  There are 2 different designs for this function - in the older design, a spring aligns the clutch lever  and causes the lever ramps to fully lift the pinion - in the newer design, a nylon ball pushes the clutch lever for alignment.  

 

These reels are not difficult to rebuild, because the parts are big and make sense.  

 

If it's not a ratchet sound when you cast, maybe describe it better.  

If you remove the palm cap, it's easy to remove the spool.  Replacing the spool bearings simply requires removing the spool from the frame, the spur gear and spool-pin/brake washer from the spool.  Spool bearing size is 1044.

(CT surf reel)

There's also an endless supply of upgrade parts to improve casting in these reels - full-ball-bearing level wind, zirconia pawl, alloy rider, BB idler gear, shallow braid spools, mag brake add-on. 

(CS Rocket)

 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Bulldogs ideas are good ones but it’s impossible to diagnose with certainty with such vague information.  Keep us posted on your progress. 

[CatfishAndBass]

1 hour ago, bulldog1935 said:

Your reel appears to be a dressed-up, re-labeled, Ambassadeur 6500C3.  

The easy possibility is the spool is not centered, so the spool pin is impacting the pinion gear - too easy to do overtightening the palm-side thumb nut for brakes.  To test this, open both thumb nuts a couple of turns - try casting with the reel tilted to either side.  When the palm side is up, the spool pin will impact the pinion gear - if this is the sound, tighten the drive-side thumb nut until it goes away.  Then tighten the palm side to incipient side play in freespool, or to your casting brake setting.  

 

Second possibility is a little more esoteric, and should be intermittent - doesn't make the ratchet sound sound every cast.  

If the clutch is not fully disengaging, the pinion does not lift completely from the spool pin, and you get the same sound.  

 

If this is the case, the drive cover will need to come off for maintenance, and possible part replacement.  There are 2 different designs for this function - in the older design, a spring aligns the clutch lever  and causes the lever ramps to fully lift the pinion - in the newer design, a nylon ball pushes the clutch lever for alignment.  

 

These reels are not difficult to rebuild, because the parts are big and make sense.  

 

If it's not a ratchet sound when you cast, maybe describe it better.  

If you remove the palm cap, it's easy to remove the spool.  Replacing the spool bearings simply requires removing the spool from the frame, the spur gear and spool-pin/brake washer from the spool.  Spool bearing size is 1044.

(CT surf reel)

There's also an endless supply of upgrade parts to improve casting in these reels - full-ball-bearing level wind, zirconia pawl, alloy rider, BB idler gear, shallow braid spools, mag brake add-on. 

(CS Rocket)

 

If it is a relabeled one, they certainly did a lot on relabeling it and reworking it. Like a lot a lot

[bulldog1935]

@CatfishAndBass -like I said, the parts are out there. 

Here's the details on my CS Rocket

I built this high-geared 4500CT without a reel, just from parts. 

Farthest cast I own, and will do it with 3 g.  

 

In addition to the Japanese (Avail, Valleyhill) and shops like Mike's in BC, extreme surf upgrades are made in UK and Italy.  Akios in UK sold this hot version for awhile, barstock frame, stainless gears, BB drive -

- https://akiosfishingtackle.com/product/akios-shuttle-656-lsi-kuro-levelwind-multiplier-reel/

The upgrade parts were fabricated and the reels finished in UK, but the 656 swap parts with Ambassadeur C3, and the Akios version cost 3x. 

RocketReelCo makes their CT version, sells completed drive plates with BB drive and stainless gears - MannFish in UK makes a high-speed stainless gearset. 

[CatfishAndBass]

I think the reason it started is because I was messing with the reel seeing how things work with it. I took off the side with the part that has the free spool button. I unscrewed these 2 nails. I got the free spool stuck and freed it. After that I put it back together and suddenly I get these clicky noises. I wish I could send the noise but I don’t know how.

[bulldog1935]

If it's a continuous ratchet noise in freespool, sounds like your clutch is not fully lifting the pinion.  Could be my 2nd possibility above.  

Best photo I have of this part below is borrowed - if the freespool lever is not properly aligned on the spring-loaded white nylon ball, and in the frame groove, it may not be lifting the pinion gear all the way.  

[CatfishAndBass]

Just now, bulldog1935 said:

If it's a continuous ratchet noise in freespool, sounds like your clutch is not fully lifting the pinion.  

Could be my 2nd possibility above.  

Best photo I have of this part below is borrowed - if the freespool lever is not properly aligned on the spring-loaded white nylon ball, and in the frame groove, it may not be lifting the pinion gear all the way.  

I am scared to mess with it. If my fear gets the better of me I may just go for a reel repair service.

[CatfishAndBass]

9 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

@CatfishAndBass -like I said, the parts are out there. 

Here's the details on my CS Rocket

I built this high-geared 4500CT without a reel, just from parts. 

Farthest cast I own, and will do it with 3 g.  

 

In addition to the Japanese and shops like Mike's in BC, extreme surf upgrades are made in UK and Italy.  Akios in UK sold this hot version for awhile, stainless gears, BB drive - 

https://akiosfishingtackle.com/product/akios-shuttle-656-lsi-kuro-levelwind-multiplier-reel/

The parts, the reels, were fabricated in UK, but the 656 swap parts with 6500C3, and the Akios version cost 3x. 

RocketReelCo makes their version, sells completed drive plates with BB drive and stainless gears - MannFish in UK makes the high-speed stainless gears. 

 If I get my confidence in taking reels apart I’ll try.

[CatfishAndBass]

Tell me if you see anything wrong.

[CatfishAndBass]

I have a question for you @bulldog1935, does the noise indicate something harmful or not? If it doesn’t, I can live with it.

[bulldog1935]

@CatfishAndBass - you're kind of putting me on the spot - we don't know for sure that spool pin impacting pinion is causing the noise.  If it is, it's not a good thing, but there's nothing I can see in the blurred pinion photo. 

I'm not familiar with the stubby spindle in your photo.  Every reel I know with this configuration, Ambassadeur, Akios, Rocket TG, Kast King, duplicates C3 Ultracast spool design and all have a fixed spindle that's wider than the reel frame.  

 

One possibility for making noise is that you lifted the drive from the spool, and dropped a brake shoe into the centrifugal race.  Another possibility, the noise is from the LW and needs oil.  

I'm going to have to see schematics of your reel to tell you anything more - they don't provide them on their website.  

[CatfishAndBass]

It’s not stubby, I just pressed the freespool button

[CatfishAndBass]

I didn’t drop any brake shoes in because I looked at the sheet thing and I have all of the brake shoes on there. 

[bulldog1935]

I'm not even sure of the spool configuration at this point - I can't see what you see - your overall reel frame and the "bumps" in the drive side plate match C3 drive configuration.  

 

this schematic is CT non-level-wind, but drive and spool are the same for all Ambassadeur C3.  (this reel doesn't have palm-plate idler gear and LW to drive off the idler - it's the schematic I had handy, and clear to see the rest without the LW parts)

 

I do now see in your photo that what I thought was the end of a short spindle is reflection from the bottom of the pinion slot.  

C3 spindle is usually clipped in place in the drive side by p/n 20090.  The tabs on these clips sometime will break, and I keep spares for my reels.  The plastic part is kinda woosie (there's a stouter UK part in my blue CT above, but that doesn't do us any good).  

@CatfishAndBass

Since the spindle appeared to come out with your spool, I think we're back to spool centering as the issue causing spool pins to impact the pinion gear.  I don't have time to take photos this morning (all the other photos I posted were stashed), but may get there this afternoon.  

The increased diameter boss on the spindle (p/n 802631) bump-stops the spool bearing inner race, and limits how far the spool can move toward the drive.  If the 20090 clip is not pinning the spindle, tightening palm-side brake knob can push the spool too close to the drive and pinion.  The solution may be as simple as replacing 20090 clip and adding a brass square shim (p/n 20917, also 5145) to the drive side cap nut.  

I have a couple of reels w/ Avail spools that need as many as 3 of these shims to center properly.  

You can get these parts from e-replacement parts or Dad's Ole Tackle.  

Get some spares, like I said, the plastic part is woosie, and the phosphor bronze shims wear and bend from cranking on the brake knob.  The shims are what you add to or remove from cap nuts to adjust spool centering.  

 

editing in these photos - spindle - note the groove in the drive end for the clip - the clip and shim.  

This shows the clip tabs in the spindle groove.  But you have to remove drive side cap nut, push the spindle through the pinion, and install the clip on the outside.