Round Reel Fascination

[ghost]

Top from left to right:

 

Shimano Calcutta TE 101GT, Shimano Calcutta 51B and Shimano Cardiff 101

 

Middle: 

 

23 Shimano Calcutta Conquest BFS

XG

 

Bottom from left to right:

 

Loongze Airlite B101 BFS 

Ifishband Tender Shoot 

Kawa Sabre JKS 51

 

Handle mods to the Calcutta TE 101GT, Calcutta Conquest BFS, Tender Shoot and Sabre JKS 51.

 

The Calcutta 51B is kinda, sorta BFS. That I have 80% filled 65lb braided line and top shot of 15lb Power Pro braid. It does good with 5.3g(3/16oz) lures. Trying anything lower and it's a challenge and wants to cast left.  Hard to find a shallow spool for the Calcutta 51B. So a Jimmy Rig shallow spool.

 

[mrpao]

Love some round reels myself

[Maxximus Redneckus]

Lovely reels but handles on wrong side

[bulldog1935]

It gets worse...

  

[redmeansdistortion]

1 minute ago, bulldog1935 said:

It gets worse...

  

It sure does.  I'm missing 3 in this photo. 

 

[bulldog1935]

mine are too busy on rods to sit still for a group photo.  

[bowhunter63]

Still use my trusty Abu 

[Robin]

Still have several in service. Favorite is a calcutta 50xt. It has a drilled/lighter spool than the standard calcutta. Swapped out for Roro bearings and was pleasantly surprised. It will now cast down to 2 oz. with some effort, but 3-5 oz is no problem with 8lb braid. Also have a Millionaire CT with a Roro spool and it can easily handle 2 grams.

[FishTank]

I have started to get hooked on them too. I have 2 Shimano Calcutta 251's, a Calcutta TE 101GT, a  21 Conquest 101, two Conquest BFS's, a Daiwa Millionaire CT and a new Conquest 31.  There is just something fun and comfortable with these reels. Plus, they are built like tanks. They will probably out last me at this point. 

[redmeansdistortion]

16 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

mine are too busy on rods to sit still for a group photo.  

I change mine up frequently.  Some days I want a Millionaire on a glass trout rod, another day I might want a baby Ambassadeur, or maybe even a Calcutta Conquest.  The problem with having so many good rods and reels is choosing which ones you want to take on any given trip.  It's worse than trying to pick something on Netflix.  My destination dictates what rod and reel I will bring along.

[ABU is overpriced]

I love them, but at the same time i feel like none of the ones that are currently sold are good enough. I want something tiny like the Conquest DC 50 and the Cardiff DC. All the current ones are too big. The palming side plate might be small on the new Conquest reels, but the reel as a whole isn't. Looking at that Loongze chinese dc reel, i don't get how is china made a smaller dc reel than japan, and when you look at daiwa offerings, they look like dinosaurs in comparison.

[redmeansdistortion]

2 hours ago, ABU is overpriced said:

I love them, but at the same time i feel like none of the ones that are currently sold are good enough. I want something tiny like the Conquest DC 50 and the Cardiff DC. All the current ones are too big. The palming side plate might be small on the new Conquest reels, but the reel as a whole isn't. Looking at that Loongze chinese dc reel, i don't get how is china made a smaller dc reel than japan, and when you look at daiwa offerings, they look like dinosaurs in comparison.

Keep in mind how reel marketing works; weight (lightness), speed, drag capacity, and bearing count.  The more one has of a combination of two or three, or even all four means it will draw attention because of the "more is better" mentality.  All of that stuff is important, but there is much more that needs to be taken into consideration.  Lighter reels don't make for a balanced combo as good as something with a little more weight to it.  Bearing count is nice, but where they are implemented is what counts.  Some areas are better served by bushings due to durability.  Speed, while nice can come at the expense of torque which can be more important depending on target species.  Then there's drag capacity which is marketed to those who don't understand the purpose of drag in the first place.  People see numbers and think it correlates to quality, durability, and overall performance, but in reality, this isn't usually the case.  The bigger brands earned their reputations.  True quality reels come in all sizes.  I don't own a Loongze, but I know others that do that are happy with them.  One commonality I've read among them, they're still not Daiwa or Shimano and what they offer comes at a similar price point while sacrificing a bit in the quality department.  That said, they could become a contender at some point.  Gotta start out somewhere.

[ABU is overpriced]

On 5/13/2024 at 3:14 PM, redmeansdistortion said:

Keep in mind how reel marketing works; weight (lightness), speed, drag capacity, and bearing count.  The more one has of a combination of two or three, or even all four means it will draw attention because of the "more is better" mentality.  All of that stuff is important, but there is much more that needs to be taken into consideration.  Lighter reels don't make for a balanced combo as good as something with a little more weight to it.  Bearing count is nice, but where they are implemented is what counts.  Some areas are better served by bushings due to durability.  Speed, while nice can come at the expense of torque which can be more important depending on target species.  Then there's drag capacity which is marketed to those who don't understand the purpose of drag in the first place.  People see numbers and think it correlates to quality, durability, and overall performance, but in reality, this isn't usually the case.  The bigger brands earned their reputations.  True quality reels come in all sizes.  I don't own a Loongze, but I know others that do that are happy with them.  One commonality I've read among them, they're still not Daiwa or Shimano and what they offer comes at a similar price point while sacrificing a bit in the quality department.  That said, they could become a contender at some point.  Gotta start out somewhere.

Perfectly aware, and i am not implying anywhere that i am interested in some Chinese brand. What i do want is a Shimano/Daiwa (especially daiwa since they'v been slacking on the round reels department) that is as small as that Chinese dc reel. If a brand with zero manufacturing experience can do it, of course the big two can do it as well. Give it a stock carbon handle with cork knobs like the alphas air stream custom, and i am buying one day one.

[dodgeguy]

I used to like them but they weigh to much since I've hit 65. My newest reels are 4.9 oz and 5 oz except for my 6.7 oz. Bb1

[Robin]

Still love my Calcutta 50 reels, but I have also crossed the 65 mark and my Aldebarans are much more enjoyable to fish for extended periods. I have some of the original Aldebarans, along with the 50s, 30s and BFS versions and they are all phenomenal reels. Paired with a 3 ounce BFS rod, the feeling is hard to describe. The Calcuttas are still in rotation though, for nostalgia purposes, and I suspect I will take them with me to my grave.

[redmeansdistortion]

8 hours ago, ABU is overpriced said:

What i do want is a Shimano/Daiwa (especially daiwa since they'v been slacking on the round reels department) that is as small as that Chinese dc reel. If a brand with zero manufacturing experience can do it, of course the big two can do it as well.

There's a reason Shimano and Daiwa do not make a round reel that light.  First off, they, unlike the  Chinese, have most likely field tested concept and pre-production models like you are talking about.  They have the resources for extensive R&D and probably never brought them to production because of weaknesses in the alloy or design used.  A reputable manufacturer doesn't risk its reputation over such things, they will tend to stick to tried and true designs that evolve over time.  Similarly, Abu once had a 1500C concept model that weighed a whole 5 ounces, they were planning on releasing it in 1980 but because it was not structurally sound like the 1978 model, it never saw production.  Better to err on the side of caution than to potentially sacrifice the brand.

[ABU is overpriced]

3 hours ago, redmeansdistortion said:

There's a reason Shimano and Daiwa do not make a round reel that light.  First off, they, unlike the  Chinese, have most likely field tested concept and pre-production models like you are talking about.  They have the resources for extensive R&D and probably never brought them to production because of weaknesses in the alloy or design used.  A reputable manufacturer doesn't risk its reputation over such things, they will tend to stick to tried and true designs that evolve over time.  Similarly, Abu once had a 1500C concept model that weighed a whole 5 ounces, they were planning on releasing it in 1980 but because it was not structurally sound like the 1978 model, it never saw production.  Better to err on the side of caution than to potentially sacrifice the brand.

Its a bass reel, they don't need to be as large as a conquest either. And the weight doesn't need to be as tiny, but i do want the the size, and unless i hear undeniable proof from daiwa/shimano, i will never believe that they aren't making a smaller version because it might ruin their reputation. Shimano isn't making a smaller one because it'll make their current version completely irrelevant, and what they want is to have the same frame for their standard conquest reels and their bfs one, this way the manufacturing is much less expensive. And when it comes to Daiwa, its even worse. The Millionaire CT and the Ryoga1016 are absolutely massive compared to other round reels. How is it that they have tiny 28mm spools, but no round reels to take advantage of those? Lots of people in Japan prefer round reels for stream fishing, and Daiwa not developing a new tiny frame to use their 28mm spools is a waste. Instead, they made the IMZ, a reel nobody owns nor wants to waste their time recharging the batteries after every day on the water. Their zillion design is great and the new steez frame is amazing, but they're ignoring round reels, and that's not cool.

[redmeansdistortion]

5 hours ago, ABU is overpriced said:

Its a bass reel, they don't need to be as large as a conquest either. And the weight doesn't need to be as tiny, but i do want the the size, and unless i hear undeniable proof from daiwa/shimano, i will never believe that they aren't making a smaller version because it might ruin their reputation. Shimano isn't making a smaller one because it'll make their current version completely irrelevant, and what they want is to have the same frame for their standard conquest reels and their bfs one, this way the manufacturing is much less expensive. And when it comes to Daiwa, its even worse. The Millionaire CT and the Ryoga1016 are absolutely massive compared to other round reels. How is it that they have tiny 28mm spools, but no round reels to take advantage of those? Lots of people in Japan prefer round reels for stream fishing, and Daiwa not developing a new tiny frame to use their 28mm spools is a waste. Instead, they made the IMZ, a reel nobody owns nor wants to waste their time recharging the batteries after every day on the water. Their zillion design is great and the new steez frame is amazing, but they're ignoring round reels, and that's not cool.

The '21 Calcutta Conquest platform is actually quite tiny, the '14 model is a physically larger reel.  Shimano refreshes the Conquest platform once every seven years or so.  Going back to the first Conquest, released in 2001, it has shrunken down over each successive generation.  The Millionaire is a 1998 design that's completely modular which enables Daiwa to outfit it anyway they please with little R&D put forth.  Daiwa never had to make a smaller Millionaire because the platform is so versatile.  With the required spacers, a 28mm spool drops right in.  Additionally, the Millionaire platform is so structurally sound that different alloys have been used for various models to save weight.  Take for instance the Ringa SSS which weighs 6.9 oz and compare it with the SW 103 which is nearly 3 oz more.  A different alloy is used in the SW because it is a saltwater reel.  As far as the Ryoga goes, that too is an older design which was released in 2009.  If it isn't broke, why fix it? 

 

Featherweight reels are cool and all, but there are sacrifices to be made.  Weight isn't the be all end all that you think it is.  It sells reels, that's for sure, but there is much more to the equation.  The big benefit of keeping designs around?  Parts availability.  Many of these Chinese brands are notoriously difficult to get parts for, even current production models.  If I need an Abu, Daiwa, or Shimano part, OEM or third party, I can find it easy and have it to my door.  Those of us that buy these reels don't buy them for the sake of nostalgia, we buy them for the potential.  They are blank slates that can be turned into better machines in the hands of a competent tuner on his bench.  Build quality aside, that's why we gravitate to them.  They are heirloom quality pieces that only get better the more one massages them.  You aren't going to be able to do that with a Chinese reel because they are vague as far as parts compatibility.  You can't swap brake assemblies, gears, worm shafts, spools, or anything else conducive to the end performance of the reel.  You can swap handles and bearings, but what about after that?  Not much out there.  What you get is a reel that marginally performs better than it was out of the box.  You aren't going to be able to build it for specific niches due to limited parts availability.

[Eric 26]

2 hours ago, redmeansdistortion said:

 

 

Featherweight reels are cool and all, but there are sacrifices to be made.  Weight isn't the be all end all that you think it is.  It sells reels, that's for sure, but there is much more to the equation.  The big benefit of keeping designs around?  Parts availability.  Many of these Chinese brands are notoriously difficult to get parts for, even current production models.  If I need an Abu, Daiwa, or Shimano part, OEM or third party, I can find it easy and have it to my door.  Those of us that buy these reels don't buy them for the sake of nostalgia, we buy them for the potential.  They are blank slates that can be turned into better machines in the hands of a competent tuner on his bench.  Build quality aside, that's why we gravitate to them.  They are heirloom quality pieces that only get better the more one massages them.  You aren't going to be able to do that with a Chinese reel because they are vague as far as parts compatibility.  You can't swap brake assemblies, gears, worm shafts, spools, or anything else conducive to the end performance of the reel.  You can swap handles and bearings, but what about after that?  Not much out there.  What you get is a reel that marginally performs better than it was out of the box.  You aren't going to be able to build it for specific niches due to limited parts availability.

Although I don’t own any round reels I couldn’t agree more with the above statement. I also own a few “other manufacturers” reels and as I’ve mentioned in a previous thread I got lucky having a Piscifun reel fixed when I realized it’s the same reel as an Ardent and was able to order a part from them when I found out Piscifun doesn’t offer parts. I also have a Dream Tackle reel that’s a pleasure to use and extremely lightweight but it too has zero parts support as far as I can tell. 

[bulldog1935]

200 g of '23 SLPW Millionaire is 10 g (5 %) more than a '23 Steez A 

Yes, they're aimed at different niches, but the $720 Millionaire sold out in weeks, and most sold in advance, prior to their release.  

Somebody likes them, though a peeing contest wouldn't fit their culture.  

[redmeansdistortion]

1 minute ago, bulldog1935 said:

200 g of '23 SLPW Millionaire is 10 g (5 %) more than a '23 Steez A 

Yes, they're aimed at different niches, but the $720 Millionaire sold out in weeks, and most sold in advance, prior to their release.  

Somebody likes them.  

And now it's difficult finding one for less than $1000 since they are now out of production.