Rod power and action 102

[snowplow]

Ok guys l understand what power and action are and how they relate. I'm hoping you can help me understand a little deeper. I don't know if any of you can relate, but sometimes you can feel a difference but not tell exactly what's going on. That's what I'm hoping to clear up. 

 

For reference with same length:

 

Med-Light power / Fast tip

Med power / Fast tip

Med-Hvy power / Mod Fast tip

Heavy power / Moderate tip

 

I have compared like this though not all at the same time, and it was hard to tell what was going on. 

 

For instance, a MH/MF feels pretty similar to a H/Mod. In this comparison which would have the softer tip? Obviously the heavy would have the most backbone once you got there but how about in the middle? 

 

Do you guys see what lm trying to say?

 

How does the power curves change? 

 

Feel free to read my mind..... 😂

 

 

[Columbia Craw]

Unfortunately there is no true standard in the rod building industry.  Each manufacturer will assign a power and action rating to their specifications but that can even change from series to series within a manufacturer.  There is however a concept that you can try to apply.

 

Power expresses the amount of force it takes to cause the rod to flex.  The taper, material, tube diameter and tube wall thickness all vary to determine how much force or stress it requires to get the blank to bend or flex.
 

Action  is the term used to describe the flex arc and the point or location on the blank where is locks up or ceases to flex.  The “faster” the action the sooner it reaches the location on the blank that the blank will no longer flex. It can also refer to the rate of speed the blank reacts to the stress that flexes the blank.

 

The two characteristics, power and action work with each other to obtain that blanks flex characteristics.  What you seem to experience are similarities in rods because the impact of action on power or power on action establish a similar flex characteristic.  So it’s very possible a m/h moderate can have a similar flex characteristic as a medium fast rating.

When someone says they prefer the actions of a specific brand or series, I would say they may be referring to the flex characteristics.  When you find that balance in a rod model that feels right for you, you figured out the puzzle.

[GRiver]

Is there a set standards or guide lines, for the ratings? 
The same brand, same exact rating and they can be different if bought a few years apart. 

[MickD]

Columbia Craw has it right.  I'll add a few more ideas that might help. CCS is an objective rod/blank rating system that is easy to set up so that both power and action can be measured.  https://common-cents.info/

 

Additionally, one can easily with an Android device measure the natural frequency of the blank/rod.  The higher the number the faster the recovery from deflection, and the crisper/cleaner the rod will feel.  Higher mod rod/blanks usually but not always (depends on the design details) have higher natural frequencies.  I can send a .pdf file that tells how to do it for those interested. 

 

Even within a manufacturer's line of product the objective numbers may not correlate to the subjective descriptions.  For example, a medium power rod sold as a drop shot rod will often have much less power than one sold as a jigging rod.  CCS is the best measure.  Some blank makers publish CCS numbers, but it is not common.  There is a good data base on line for blanks.  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r3zv1ygtuUjPBa-c5LT9RTYeDR_pnCDIkVIdDv0YoeQ/edit#gid=1592691333  An enterprising man named Kevin Fiant has compiled it from data from manufacturers and builders.  Thank you again, Kevin.

 

We hear a lot about how important action is in "keeping fish pinned," but one should consider that the longer the rod  the less important action is to this consideration.  A 7 1/2 foot extra fast action is a lot like a 6 1/2 foot moderate/fast action on a 1 foot butt extension.  

 

Finally, for the same power, the faster the action, the softer the tip (softer = lower stiffness) . 

 

The confusion in evaluating feel between the combinations the OP'er mentions is due to the fact that the subjective descriptions vary all over the place and cannot be trusted to be even close to consistent.  Two "mod fast" rods may be quite different in action; two medium power rods may be quite different in power.  The only way to compare apples to apples is to objectively measure the rods for CCS numbers.  Then add TNF (True Natural Frequency) for an added objective measure of performance. 

[casts_by_fly]

Columbia craw and mick hit all of the information. 
 

The best way to think about it practically is that for a given power the action largely is where the rod bends when you’re casting and working a lure. The power of a rod comes into play when you’re fighting a fish. 
 

let’s just use a 7’, medium heavy and fast action (both per common cents measurements) as the example. The fast action means when you’re casting a lure within the rated/measured range, the tip will bend roughly in the top 25-30% of the rod. That’s pretty tippy. There isn’t really any power associated with that part of the rod and that much of the rod will basically straighten out when you fight a fish.  How big of a fish determines how far it will bend down into the power of the bottom half of the rod. 
 

As you point out, upping the power and slowing the action will change how it feels. On casting, it will feel like more of the rod is bending because it is. Again, keeping within the lure rating for the rod (which will probably be a little higher given the power change) a true moderate action is going to bend down to the 30-40% mark.  When fighting a fish, it’s also going to bend down further faster but have more power overall.  
 

going the other direction, an extra fast on a medium is going to have a very light and quick tip.  Casting it you’re barely going to bend to that 25% mark if you even get there. With very light loads (aka smaller fish) it is going to bend down into the rod because there isn’t a lot of power up the rod to support it. 
 

the hard parts of all of this is that there is no industry standard that the manufacturers actually use. Some rate a little lighter and some a little heavier. Some are slower and and some are faster. Using lure rating is usually pretty good to get you in the ballpark. Comparing against something you know is another good idea. Forget about line rating, it’s pretty meaningless. For me, I’ve settled into falcon rods and I know how they rate them. I know that they have two different levels of ‘heavy’ and what power that corresponds to. I know their actions pretty well now and could pick out rods based on the spec.  Some guys here can do that for loomis or st croix. Find what you like and the adapt from there. 

 

[Zcoker]

I think the biggest thing to take from all of this is that rod manufactures ALL have different ways that they rate their rods. So buyer beware, espeically if ordering them online. A rod that has an extra heavy rating, for example, could in fact be quite soft, more like a medium action rod here in the US. A lot of the Japanese manufactures like Shimano rate their rods with wording like "regular action" or "versatile power" whereas in the US we have medium, medium heavy, fast, extra fast, and so forth. Both can be lightyears apart. Best way is to handle the rod in person to get a decent idea on what you are getting into or how a particular rod might perform. But the true test, or course, is out on the water. A rod's rating that seems right in the store may fall flat on its face when trying to hook a nice fish, when working your favorite lures, or when casting all day. 

[Columbia Craw]

So we come to this Snowplow,  Bass Resource has the largest membership for a site dedicated to bass fishing by far.  With it comes a membership that will gladly share their experience with rods.  If you want to get some input, ask.  The information shared here is really good.