Daiwa is slacking in the round reels department

[ABU is overpriced]

Anyone else feels like daiwa is getting run over by Shimano and their Conquest line when it comes to round reels? They used to have a bunch of awesome Millionaires like the Ringa SSS, Ringa HLC, I'ze Light, the silver Ryoga1016 and many more, but now there's just nothing worth talking about. I don't know if the 2018 Ryoga is still in production, but that thing didn't hit the way the original Ryoga and the Pluton did. Same with the Millionaire CT, it just wasn't it. Have they abandoned bass round reels?

[rangerjockey]

2 hours ago, ABU is overpriced said:

Anyone else feels like daiwa is getting run over by Shimano and their Conquest line when it comes to round reels? They used to have a bunch of awesome Millionaires like the Ringa SSS, Ringa HLC, I'ze Light, the silver Ryoga1016 and many more, but now there's just nothing worth talking about. I don't know if the 2018 Ryoga is still in production, but that thing didn't hit the way the original Ryoga and the Pluton did. Same with the Millionaire CT, it just wasn't it. Have they abandoned bass round reels?

There probably a small percentage of enthusiast's that still have a interest in them . For me they are deader than Abe Lincoln and I grew up fishing them. 

 

[redmeansdistortion]

The Millionaire is a highly versatile platform and has been in production since 1998 in the CV-Z which every Millionaire since is based on.  It's a no frills design but can be tailored to whatever niche one chooses since it works with spools from 28mm to 34mm and gear ratios from 5.8:1 to 7.2:1.  It shares many components with the '03-'19 Alphas/Pixy platform and some parts are a direct swap.  While it isn't particularly exciting, that may have to do with the minimal marketing and hype put into it versus models like the Steez and Zillion.  5 years ago, hardly anybody knew the CT SV existed unless they looked at Daiwa Japan's website and saw it in the product line.  The platform in general is a blank slate to make what you want.  Here are a couple of mine.

 

Millionaire Ringa SSS set up for BFS.  

 

Millionaire SW 103 set up for my Detroit River finesse niche.  This one uses the spool from a Silver Wolf plus a few other goodies.

 

Do I feel Daiwa is lacking in round reels?  Absolutely, same thing with Abu.  The commonality between both brands of round reels is that they are blank slates.  If they don't make what you are looking for, you can always build your own.  Round reels aren't very popular outside of the enthusiast level, the average Joe wants low profile reels so that's where companies spend more on R&D and marketing.

[ABU is overpriced]

4 hours ago, rangerjockey said:

There probably a small percentage of enthusiast's that still have a interest in them . For me they are deader than Abe Lincoln and I grew up fishing them. 

 

If that's the case, then how is the Conquest still this popular? And you can very easily tell that it is a very popular platform from simply seeing how many of them are being sold on the used market. What people want is for a round reel to have a comfy "palmability", and Daiwa is simply not on the level of Shimano when it comes to comfort on their round reels.

[casts_by_fly]

Very few people want a round reel. I know I certainly don't.  They don't fit my hand well and I don't like the look of them.  I have a couple downstairs and have no intention to use them.  In that case, why would a mannufacturer put any R&D money or marketing support behind it?  Its not worth their time and probably not on their long term strategy.

[redmeansdistortion]

25 minutes ago, ABU is overpriced said:

If that's the case, then how is the Conquest still this popular? And you can very easily tell that it is a very popular platform from simply seeing how many of them are being sold on the used market. What people want is for a round reel to have a comfy "palmability", and Daiwa is simply not on the level of Shimano when it comes to comfort on their round reels.

If you turn back the clock to when the Millionaire CV-Z was released, it palmed comparably well to the then new Calcutta Conquest.  As I stated above, the Millionaire has gone through very few design changes, mostly relegated to spool, handle, gearing , and color.  Since release, the Calcutta Conquest is now on it's 3rd or 4th generation with very little carrying over from previous models.  Over that time Shimano has turned the Calcutta Conquest from a standard round reel to a compact round reel with an offset gearbox that feels more like a low profile than a round reel.  

[rangerjockey]

42 minutes ago, ABU is overpriced said:

If that's the case, then how is the Conquest still this popular? And you can very easily tell that it is a very popular platform from simply seeing how many of them are being sold on the used market. What people want is for a round reel to have a comfy "palmability", and Daiwa is simply not on the level of Shimano when it comes to comfort on their round reels.

I wouldn't judge popularity by how many show up on the used market. If anything it shows that they aren't sticking with the original owners. Sounds like you assume you know the market for round reels.

If you like them more power to you.

[Bigbox99]

I don't like gold round reels so its Ryoga for me if I want a round reel.  The spool swapping options are also nice.  It may be worse but it's more reel than I need. 

[redmeansdistortion]

3 minutes ago, rangerjockey said:

I wouldn't judge popularity by how many show up on the used market. If anything it shows that they aren't sticking with the original owners. Sounds like you assume you know the market for round reels.

If you like them more power to you.

Honestly, it's like this for any popular reel model.  There are far more Zillions, TD-Zs, and Steezs for sale on the used market than there are Millionaires.  Use any one of those in a search query on Yahoo Auctions and you'll get hundreds, if not over 1000 hits.  As far as the Millionaire is concerned, the 100 size is the most sought after while the 200 and 300 sizes tend to be more numerous and demand less money on the used market.  New old stock Millionaire 103 variants often have asking prices in the $300 to $400 range, while more special models like the I'ze Light, Ringa SSS, and M-Ito are regularly over the $500 mark with some approaching the $700 range.

[MediumMouthBass]

Round reels seem to only be purchased these days for either catfish/carp/big swimbait use or for nostalgia. I bought a very old Abu round reel for the 2nd reason and a new 5500 for the 1st.

 

They arent the most comfortable, very bulky and dont cast as far as most of my other reels and seem to be far behind in their designs, but have great quality, are simple to work on, and last decades, if i wanted to spend some money on them theres a huge amount of custom work and parts i could replace on them to make them great, but why?

 

I can get a great reel from any of the top brands from $100-200. I can get a Zillion rn for over $200 or buy a 150-300 reel and put another 200-300 in parts on it.

 

You can spend countless tens of thousands of dollars to get a Toyota Corolla to be able to race, but you couldve spent that same money or less on a Mustang or Camaro at the start, and no matter what upgrades you do, its still just a Corolla. I get that some people really like these type of reels and like to customize them, and thats cool. They make some really great reels with them but thats not for everyone.

 

I know some person will respond with that i am the devil and im against round reels but no, i like them and have a few.

But the reason i said most of that is because Daiwa is in the business of making money, Abu and Shimano have had the parts, manufacturing process, etc....For decades now.

And for Daiwa to start making new ones thats alot of money needed to start up again, and pair that with how much money they make with the Tatula and Zillion line of reels they probably realize not many people are spending tons of money on round reels and then customizing them. Like i said its great and really cool that people do it, its not every single person. Money is a companies biggest motivator, and for every 1 round reel sold they probably just sold 30 Tatulas.

 

[bulldog1935]

SLPW '23 Millionare Air Stream Custom sold out in presale at $720 MSRP.  

The few that people are willing to part with, they're re-selling for over $1000.  

Daiwa is crushed by your editorial.  

 

Other round reels are bench-made today, and will always be worth their original purchase price or more in resale. (out of the box, these cast toe-to-toe with any LP reel)

While you can't say the same about new Ambassadeur production, there are still limited bench editions that will retain their value, and it's pretty remarkable both how long- and strong-lived, as well as how strong in the market old Ambassadeur remains.  

Cal at TackleTour published a new Conquest MD review today - I suspect that has something to do with this thread OP.  

[redmeansdistortion]

1 hour ago, MediumMouthBass said:

Round reels seem to only be purchased these days for either catfish/carp/big swimbait use or for nostalgia. I bought a very old Abu round reel for the 2nd reason and a new 5500 for the 1st.

 

They arent the most comfortable, very bulky and dont cast as far as most of my other reels and seem to be far behind in their designs, but have great quality, are simple to work on, and last decades, if i wanted to spend some money on them theres a huge amount of custom work and parts i could replace on them to make them great, but why?

 

I can get a great reel from any of the top brands from $100-200. I can get a Zillion rn for over $200 or buy a 150-300 reel and put another 200-300 in parts on it.

 

You can spend countless tens of thousands of dollars to get a Toyota Corolla to be able to race, but you couldve spent that same money or less on a Mustang or Camaro at the start, and no matter what upgrades you do, its still just a Corolla. I get that some people really like these type of reels and like to customize them, and thats cool. They make some really great reels with them but thats not for everyone.

 

I know some person will respond with that i am the devil and im against round reels but no, i like them and have a few.

But the reason i said most of that is because Daiwa is in the business of making money, Abu and Shimano have had the parts, manufacturing process, etc....For decades now.

And for Daiwa to start making new ones thats alot of money needed to start up again, and pair that with how much money they make with the Tatula and Zillion line of reels they probably realize not many people are spending tons of money on round reels and then customizing them. Like i said its great and really cool that people do it, its not every single person. Money is a companies biggest motivator, and for every 1 round reel sold they probably just sold 30 Tatulas.

 

Round reels are often used to show the manufacturing prowess of a brand.  Abu had the Morrum, Daiwa the Millionaire and Ryoga, and Shimano the Calcutta Conquest.  For all intents and purposes, they are statement pieces and their MSRPs reflect that.  Back when the exchange rate was less favorable to the US dollar, those reels commanded $500+ when buying from Japan and many never made it to the States as retail models.  Low profile reels have dominated the market here for a few decades, while in Japan round reels are much more highly regarded.  On that note, Daiwa and Shimano both sell more down-market products such as the Tatula and Curado because the bar for entry is far lower.  Not everybody splurges and spends big money on a reel.  Many people won't or can't spend on anything but budget offerings.

 

In the case of the Millionaire, it's a blank slate as I said above.  Daiwa engineered a versatile reel that they can configure any which way they choose due the the cross compatibility with other more modern offerings.  The R&D has been completed for over two decades; it's just a matter of implementing parts from another model to get something "new".  That said, we may never see a redesigned Millionaire because 1) it would compete directly with the Ryoga, and 2) it would require extensive engineering in the gearbox to accommodate faster gears without sacrificing durability.

 

As far as palming, the Millionaire CV-Z platform is comfortable and unobtrusive, it doesn't palm like a reel with a higher foot like an Abu Ambassadeur or Penn Levelmatic.  While it doesn't palm like a modern Calcutta Conquest, it's still quite excellent and palms comparably well with the first generation Conquest which was noted for its palming ability.  

[ABU is overpriced]

2 hours ago, rangerjockey said:

I wouldn't judge popularity by how many show up on the used market. If anything it shows that they aren't sticking with the original owners. Sounds like you assume you know the market for round reels.

If you like them more power to you.

I don't agree with this at all. Loads of people bought the TDZ, OG Steez, Metanium2013, Met MGL, 2015 Met DC, and when the newer model comes out, people get rid of their previous version, that's why there's so many on the used market, and it has nothing to do with these quality reels not sticking with their original owners. Since the conquest has had a lot of different varients, its perfectly normal for folks to sell theirs to buy a new one that Shimano tries their hardest to assure you that its superior to a conquest that was released just 2 years ago.

[Bigbox99]

For me it's the Lin 10 Black Jungle with a Gomexus handle.

[rangerjockey]

1 hour ago, ABU is overpriced said:

I don't agree with this at all. Loads of people bought the TDZ, OG Steez, Metanium2013, Met MGL, 2015 Met DC, and when the newer model comes out, people get rid of their previous version, that's why there's so many on the used market, and it has nothing to do with these quality reels not sticking with their original owners. Since the conquest has had a lot of different varients, its perfectly normal for folks to sell theirs to buy a new one that Shimano tries their hardest to assure you that its superior to a conquest that was released just 2 years ago.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion as to what's perfectly normal. As I said, fish whatever you like. Me personally, I wouldn't use one on my plug knocker anymore and I'm far from a stranger to round reels.

But I'm not that guy who obsess over reels. I'm much more concerned about where I will find 'em tomorrow after this rain

 

[ABU is overpriced]

2 hours ago, Bigbox99 said:

For me it's the Lin 10 Black Jungle with a Gomexus handle.

That palming side plate can't be comfy to fish all day, can it?

[Bigbox99]

1 minute ago, ABU is overpriced said:

That palming side plate can't be comfy to fish all day, can it?

Doesn't bother me any.  I fish with 3 fingers in front of the trigger with my thumb on top of the frame.  Lefties with 2 fingers in front of the trigger palming the back of the reel might not like it.  

[GetFishorDieTryin]

The round reel market is in great shape, the options are just limited for FW, but in all honesty FW round reels have a limited customer base in comparison to low pros.  The introduction of slow pitch jigging rods made the technique extremely popular, even for land based anglers.  When you pair up a decent with slow pitch rod with a BV 300 its a game changer, because they're a blast to fish.

 

[KP Duty]

I'm sure Daiwa will introduce a new ryoga with hyperdrive gears.  However, round reels aren't for me.