Worse casting distance with braided line, too much friction?

[Ryan N]

This is my first time spooling up braid after using mono for so many years, so I'm as ignorant as it gets. I keep reading that braided line is better for casting and line feel, so I was determined to make the switch.

Combo: Abu Garcia Black Max 6.8ft Medium, fast action

My last setup was fluorocarbon (Berkley Vanish) with big game mono as backing, both are 15 lbs test and .38mm.

My new setup is a full reel of J-braid x4 20lbs test .21mm with a 2 foot Vanish leader between a swivel (The swivel does not pass through the guide rods)

 

While the noises the reel makes when casting and retrieving are pretty cool, I can't help but wonder if my rod has too much friction. Especially on the guides. My spool tensioner is almost at side-to-side play, which is what I like to have it at, but my lures don't fall naturally anymore when spool is open.

 

Could it be that my combo isn't designed for braid?

[MN Fisher]

I never go below 30# braid on casting gear - too much dig-in...which might be why you're losing casting distance. Remember that 20# braid is the same diameter as 6# mono - to me, that's too thin for loading on a baitcaster.

[MediumMouthBass]

I spent many years fishing with a Abu Black Max, sadly they got rid of them for the new Max X but whatever.... I actually have 3 or 4 of those reels now because of how much i liked them when i first started bass fishing.

My only experience with them is with 8-10lb Big Game or Suffix mono and Suffix 832 braid either 30-40-50lbs.

 

I dont know much about that braid but typically you dont want to go below 30lb braid for most casting reels, so 20lb seems a bit light for that.

 

I also dont go by side to side play unless im using my SV spool Daiwa reels, you dont have to focus much on the side to side play for those reels just set it to where your lure drops slowly. And for braid turn the brakes down 1 or 2, it does cast easier but still thumb the spool so you dont backlash.

 

You should also do a quick clean and put some oil on the reel since that can attribute to less distance when casting after awhile of using it, last thing i could think of is your rod is either under or over powered for whatever lures you are using, plus being a 6'6" rod a shorter casting distance is very normal, when you step up to the 7'-7'3" rods you can really get those lures out there.

[WRB]

Your problem with the reel is the level wind worm gear is to slow letting the braid dig into small diameter braid.

Suggest you upgrade the reel with a faster worm gear designed for the braid line you are using.

Tom

 

[bulldog1935]

I began fishing braid with 20-lb 832 (0.23 mm), 120 yds stacked on top of 25 yds 20-lb mono backing.  Tie the braid to mono backing using Allbright/Alberto knot to pass the line guide.  

This puppy sails and gives my BFS reels a 1/8-oz run for their money, even though it's in my 1/4+ oz niche.  I did improve my spool bearings with KTF/IXA MBS, the equivalent of Hedgehog Air HD.  

 

 

 

You increased the loaded mass of your spool by filling it completely with fine braid, which stacks very efficiently with almost no air gaps in the spool stack. 

Your loaded spool was lighter before, could start easier, spin faster, and lower spinning mass also needs less brake force - adding up to distance.  

 

And if you didn't fill it all the way, the smaller loaded diameter means the spool has to spin faster to cast the same amount of line - also greatly reduces cast distance.  

 

The Very Thick mono arbor I describe above stacks so inefficiently in the spool bottom, it has a huge air volume, fills the spool more than halfway, and gives me perfect remaining shallow spool depth for my much thinner working braid.  

Selah.  

 

ps - easy to fix, get a 25-yd spool of Maxima Ultragreen 20-lb, (Amazon sells), spool up your braid on a receiver spool, and start over.  Don't use fluoro backing, it's 30% denser (heavier) than mono.  

[Lead Head]

I'm not familiar with that braid but some braids I have used had a slightly tacky coating when new. They performed much better after the coating wore off.

 

Thin braid on a baitcaster can be done, but requires an excessive amount of line management and attention to detail in my opinion (unless you're using bfs equipment designed for it). I would definitely suggest going up in size, especially if this is your first experience with braid. It's not rocket science, but is different. 

 

One more thought, it is likely that you are casting with more line between the tip of your rod and your lure than normal. I say this because you mentioned a swivel and not passing it through your guides. If that is the case, try dumping the swivel and going with a braid to leader knot. Go with around 4ft of leader (just make sure the knot doesn't enter your reel) and cast normally. Now that I think about it, unless you normally cast with 2+ feet of line hanging out the tip of your rod, this is definitely contributing to your problem. That's a lot, especially for a 6'8" rod. If your braid isn't "dug in" on the spool, all that excess line could be contributing to why your lure isn't falling freely when you release the spool as it normally does. 

[Lead Head]

Last thing, you said "full reel of braid". You want at least a little bit of mono tied directly to the spool. Unless the spool has holes and you tied to one of them, braid won't bite well and can slip around the spool. I watched my dad hand-line a 2lb bass because of this.

[BrianMDTX]

I only have braid on my frog rig. All my other baitcasters have straight mono. Two Fuegos, a Tatula, and two Black Max’s. And while the Daiwas are smoother, have click drags and an easier (and better) brake system, I can cast equal baits farther with the Black Max’s than I can with the Daiwas. They are not bad reels IMO.
 

So maybe try 30 lb. braid and see if that helps. And I agree- ditch the swivel and go braid-to-leader. I use a Lefty Kreh knot (also known as a Seguar knot). Easy to tie and strong, yet still not a big knot.  

[new2BC4bass]

11 hours ago, ardeact said:

My spool tensioner is almost at side-to-side play, which is what I like to have it at, but my lures don't fall naturally anymore when spool is open.

Your lure should be dropping like a rock.  Did this start from the time you put the braid on?  Braid needs to be spooled on under tension.  If the lure has very little resistance on retrieve, you will have to occasionally make a retrieve using your fingers to maintain tension to remove loose coils of line on the spool.  The line will dig in if you don't keep the braid snug on the spool.

[Ryan N]

2 hours ago, BrianMDTX said:

I only have braid on my frog rig. All my other baitcasters have straight mono. Two Fuegos, a Tatula, and two Black Max’s. And while the Daiwas are smoother, have click drags and an easier (and better) brake system, I can cast equal baits farther with the Black Max’s than I can with the Daiwas. They are not bad reels IMO.
 

So maybe try 30 lb. braid and see if that helps. And I agree- ditch the swivel and go braid-to-leader. I use a Lefty Kreh knot (also known as a Seguar knot). Easy to tie and strong, yet still not a big knot.  

Not matching diameters was an oversight on my part, I agree with people saying the diameter is just too small and digs into the guides. I hope I'm able to RMA this line spool.

 

I use the swivel because when I run out of flouro leader, I can just tie on a new leader without shortening my main line. I run about 2 feet of leader.

2 hours ago, new2BC4bass said:

Your lure should be dropping like a rock.  Did this start from the time you put the braid on?  Braid needs to be spooled on under tension.  If the lure has very little resistance on retrieve, you will have to occasionally make a retrieve using your fingers to maintain tension to remove loose coils of line on the spool.  The line will dig in if you don't keep the braid snug on the spool.

My lures dropped like a rock when I had mono/flouro, but no longer with braid. Someone here said that it could be the braid coating because after my day of fishing, the lures fall now, granted not as quickly as resin lines (About 2ft/s)

4 hours ago, Lead Head said:

I'm not familiar with that braid but some braids I have used had a slightly tacky coating when new. They performed much better after the coating wore off.

 

Thin braid on a baitcaster can be done, but requires an excessive amount of line management and attention to detail in my opinion (unless you're using bfs equipment designed for it). I would definitely suggest going up in size, especially if this is your first experience with braid. It's not rocket science, but is different. 

 

One more thought, it is likely that you are casting with more line between the tip of your rod and your lure than normal. I say this because you mentioned a swivel and not passing it through your guides. If that is the case, try dumping the swivel and going with a braid to leader knot. Go with around 4ft of leader (just make sure the knot doesn't enter your reel) and cast normally. Now that I think about it, unless you normally cast with 2+ feet of line hanging out the tip of your rod, this is definitely contributing to your problem. That's a lot, especially for a 6'8" rod. If your braid isn't "dug in" on the spool, all that excess line could be contributing to why your lure isn't falling freely when you release the spool as it normally does. 

So when you say "dug in" you mean there are little holes or craters in my spool? I did see that after a days fishing

[bulldog1935]

Yesterday, setting up a new spool brake, I cast 2 g (1/16 oz) to 130' on 6-1/2' rod, braid diameter 0.15 mm.  

Guide dig statement makes no sense, and spool-line-dig w/ 0.21-mm braid is only an issue on a poorly-loaded spool.  

[Ryan N]

1 minute ago, bulldog1935 said:

Yesterday, setting up a new spool brake, I cast 2 g to 130' on 6-1/2' rod, braid diameter 0.15 mm.  

Guide dig statement makes no sense, and spool-line-dig is only an issue on a poorly-loaded spool.  

The spool-line dig is definitely contributing to the issue. I should apply tension to the line if the retrieval has little to no tension, to mitigate this dig. I never had this issue with resin lines so these are some new common issues it seems

[bulldog1935]

If you follow my first post, you will solve this.  

btw I always tie the backing mono and braid together with Allbright knot before I load the reel.  

It's easy to spool 25 yds of mono onto the braid source spool after you tie them together.  

This way, I never lose the tension on the line when I'm filling the reel.  

 

 

Edited May 1, 2024 by bulldog1935
I guess this thing is never on.  

[Lead Head]

By "dug in" I mean the line has pulled down into the spool and is not rolling off freely. As mentioned before, this isn't much of a problem if all the line is tight on the spool.

 

If you notice loops or slack on your spool, strip line and pinch it when reeling in to re-tighten everything. You won't have to do this as often as you get more accustomed to braid.

[Bigbox99]

I've seen fresh 4 carrier braid stick to itself like velcro.  Just fish it, break it in and it will behave itself.

[Fishingmickey]

Try going outside and tying your line off to something solid and walk away. Maybe like at least 50 - 75 yards plus. Heck empty the spool if you can. Then tighten your drag down and reel the line back in "under tension".  Ditch the swivel and get a 1/4 or 3/8 oz worm weight and tie it on the end of your line. Leave about 6"s hanging from the tip. Go give that a try.

FM

[Ryan N]

3 hours ago, Bigbox99 said:

I've seen fresh 4 carrier braid stick to itself like velcro.  Just fish it, break it in and it will behave itself.

This! Off the spool, it's like velcro. It's slowly getting faster, and my casts are getting to be farther to more precise (It also could be I'm adjusting to no line stretch).

I also removed the swivel and put an Alberto knot, not being to change length of cast line is another culprit of bad casts.

The only issue I have with main-to-leader knots is they get snagged on my guides, the last tiny one to be specific. Do I have to cut the tags very short?

[OkobojiEagle]

15 minutes ago, ardeact said:

Do I have to cut the tags very short?

Alberto knot... cut the nylon/fluoro leader tag as short as possible; leave 1/2"+ of PE line tag (it won't bother your cast).

 

oe

[Lead Head]

Is it getting snagged when reeling in, or casting out?

 

If it's only while reeling in that's no big deal if you point the rod tip down at your lure just as the knot reaches you.

 

If it's catching on the way out you need to try a smaller knot. The FG will likely be the best. It's not as hard to tie as it looks when you get familiar with it.

 

[Brian11719]

15 hours ago, BrianMDTX said:

I only have braid on my frog rig. All my other baitcasters have straight mono.

^ same except it's 15-20lb fluoro for me on the last bit with (mostly) all speed spool lfs reels...I don't know that I'd go less than 50lb braid on a casting setup but to each their own...

[Ryan N]

I bought the 20lbs braid because I also wanted to throw light lures like mini variants of lures; mini frogs, spinners and beetle spins. Will I be compromising my cast distance with smaller lures if I go up 30?

[Ryan N]

I'll follow MN Fisher's advice and get 30lbs braid, see if the dig in isn't so bad. 

[MediumMouthBass]

@ardeact 30lb braid (using Power Pro for an example) is equivalent to 8lb mono, the rod and reel casting those lures (not sure if the spinners/beetle spins are the lighter panfish ones or larger bass ones) will have more affect on the distance than the line change.

[Ryan N]

I switched to 30lb and it's definitely better! I also made sure to spool it on extra tight this time around. I was enjoying a full spool until I had the worst backlash of my life; Isn't it funny that every time I want a full spool it ends up backlashing so bad I have to cut it down.

[dodgeguy]

18 minutes ago, ardeact said:

I switched to 30lb and it's definitely better! I also made sure to spool it on extra tight this time around. I was enjoying a full spool until I had the worst backlash of my life; Isn't it funny that every time I want a full spool it ends up backlashing so bad I have to cut it down.

U should almost never have to cut braid out. It's the easiest to remove a backlash from and the line doesn't get damaged.