Fishing Kayak question

[10,000 lakes Bassin]

I know this topic has probably been discussed hundreds of times, but I think I’m going to bring it up once more. I’m looking for a new fishing kayak. Im not a very big guy, but I need something that is very stable so I can to lots of my fishing while standing up. I know that the hobie pro angler 14, and the titan 12 are top picks for this purpose, but I’m wondering if there’s anything under $2k that would also work well, or if my money would be better spent on one of the ones I mentioned, a few years down the road. 

[Choporoz]

Not too hard to find sale on Native Slayer Slayer Propel 10 on sale for 2k.  Very stable.

[casts_by_fly]

paddle, peddle, or motorized?

 

The Old Town sportsman series are incredibly stable boats.  I have the autopilot myself but the hull is the same for the PDL and paddle.  I stand to fish 100% of the time more or less.  You won't get an autopilot for $2k but you should be able to find a used PDL for that.

[10,000 lakes Bassin]

I think I would want a trolling motor. I’ve never used a pedal kayak though.

[Bluebasser86]

You could easily get an Oldtown 120 Sportsman without the peddles and add a motor for under 2k. I have the peddle version, it's a very stable boat.

[Bankc]

Adding a trolling motor to a kayak isn't too hard.  It's certainly in the DIY realm, and many of us have done it.  But it will be a bit of work and might cost you more than you'd think going into it.  There are lots of hidden costs you don't often consider when first pricing it out.  But the plus side to doing it that way is you can buy the kayak now, and then start fishing right away.  And then in a few months or years, you can add the motor later, spreading out the costs.  The experience will also tell you a bit about what you want out of the motor, such as control vs. speed.  

 

Also, stability in a kayak comes with some tradeoffs.  The more stable a kayak is, the slow it will be through the water, generally speaking.  And kayaks typically aren't stabile like a boat.  In other words, you typically have to force them over into their secondary stability point, which almost feels like it's on edge, and keep it there to keep it stable.  And that's a bit awkward at first, trying to almost tip it over to keep it from tipping over, but you get used to it.  And no matter how stable the kayak is, it's still a small platform, so your own stability will mater.  If you lean over too much, it's hard to take a step to regain your stability sometimes.  All things you get used to in time.  I'm only pointing this out in case you test out a kayak and get scared about how unstable it feels the first time you try to stand up in one.  They feel a lot worse at first.  But once you get the balance and muscle memory down, they're not too bad.  

 

But if maximum stability is your desire, then you'll want a big kayak (especially wide, but also long), which also means a heavy kayak.  And then transportation becomes something to think about.  Which might add to the costs.  

So what I'm saying is, there are lots of great kayaks out there on the market right now.  If you can find a place that does demos, try some out to get a feel for what you like and don't like.  For $2k, you're going to have to make some compromises, so figure out where you're willing to compromise.  But also, for $2k, you should be able to get a kayak that you're really happy with.  It might not be perfect or ideal, but it can still be great.

[MediumMouthBass]

I have 3 kayaks,

My first was a Crescent Lite Tackle (1st gen), it had everything i needed and was only $1,100.

Well after my 2nd or 3rd fishing trip i realized it didnt actually have what i needed, i didnt have places to put my bags of soft plastics, or 3700 tackle trays. And i didnt have any places to comfortably or securely store the rods.

Reason im saying this is because even though i thought it would be good enough for me it wasnt, make sure you are 100% sure whatever you buy fits you and your gear but also has room for you to add more if ever needed. I kept it tho because its extremely fast and use it for exercise.

 

2 or 3 months later i saw the Crescent Shoalie SF (specialized fishing) at the time it was their only kayak meant for fishing, i did tons of research, went to look at it and bought it.

Now this kayak had everything i needed, for real this time. Its on the slightly shorter side of a full size kayak (11'10"). And doesnt feel like im picking up/carrying a boat like my Old Town Sportsman 120 but well get to that one later on.

I have a Yak Attack black pack but for this kayak i dont need to bring it, just the kayak itself can hold 6 rods under the seat, it has grooves for the rods to slide onto (under the seat and up on the front tank well) plus 2 rods facing the rear direction on their "rod holsters". Fits around 10-30 bags of soft plastics on the right side of the seat and around 4 3700 trays plus 2-3 smaller trays on the left side of the seat/under it. If i did have the Yak Attack black pack in the rear tank well these numbers would be 2x. Its a fast yet very maneuverable, stable too. Its a river kayak built by/for Drew Gregory (a river bass fisherman). Everything thats on the kayak was extremely well thought out and had a reason for being there. Paid $1600 and it has mounts on both sides that can either be cup holders or mounts for an Anchor Wizzard. The rear is designed and has mounts ready to be drilled to put a motor on it

 

Months after that a local DSG had a Old Town Sportsman 120 on display that was very beat up on the bottom, was listed for $1300 but the manager was more than happy offering it to us for $600 after asking about the scratches. Now this things stable!!!!

But it also feels like im fishing in a boat, the speed and maneuverability are 65% the Shoalie but

if theres high wind or bad waves then this things staying put. Its a boat that thinks its a kayak and its amazing.

But not very "bring everything you have with you" friendly. What i mean is theres not alot of space for rods, or tackle. Atleast not for me. This kayaks going to have the Yak Attack black pack put in it. Plus you can really feel the weight difference when trying to load this one in the truck....

 

I like all 3 kayaks but each has a different purpose, do you want speed and maneuverability with stability? Or would you rather be a little bit slower but have one of the most stable kayaks made?

 

Do you fish very minimalistic? Or take tons of gear with you.

[casts_by_fly]

2 hours ago, August said:

I think I would want a trolling motor. I’ve never used a pedal kayak though.

 

2 hours ago, Bluebasser86 said:

You could easily get an Oldtown 120 Sportsman without the peddles and add a motor for under 2k. I have the peddle version, it's a very stable boat.

 

This is the way then.  A PDL version is going to push up onto your budget so no cash left for a motor.  A paddle version should be well under budget and give some options on motors.  You might even be able to get to an XI3 bow mount which is a pretty sweet deal for a kayak.

[10,000 lakes Bassin]

How stable is the old town sportsman 120? I need I kayak where I can do like 90% of my fishing when standing up because I do a lot of sight fishing and pitching. 

[JayMac89]

I bought a old town sportsman pdl 106 recently. I love it. I'm a small guy. 5'8 160lbs. I stand all day in that thing. Super stable. No issues at all there and it's the 106. Bigger would be even more stable obviously. I find the 106 more than stable enough and the reduced size makes storage and transportation easier

 

Also i get the whole appeal to the motor. And iv never used one. But having a pedal drive has some pretty great benefits I'm finding. Can go super stealth. Auto stop. Jogging in place. Throwing that thing in reverse while fighting a fish. Just somthing to think about. Paddles are a pain. But pedals are great. Granted, I'm in shape and very active. But iv hadn't gotten even remotely tired or strained pedaling that kayak. I don't find the motor worth the extra money. Again, never used a motor kayak. Just basing that opinion on how effortless a pedal version is. 

 

I got mine brand new for 2600 i belive. More than your 2k but not by much. And used im sure you could get closer to your 2k budget. I was looking into the native slayer before deciding on the old town, pretty sure it was cheaper too.

[Bluebasser86]

@August I stand and fish in mine very easily. I'm 6' and about 210 and carry more gear than I need but it handles it fine. I fish in a lot of very strong winds with big waves and it's not an issue as long as I'm not trying to cut across the waves.

[FishTax]

I have old town 106 and it's very stable, but I second everything @Bankcsaid so be sure to read his reply if you haven't yet

 

I always say I don't think I could flip mine if I tried, but I could easily fall out of it. 

[10,000 lakes Bassin]

I kind of want a kayak to be like a mini bass boat, so I think I value stability over speed. That’s  why I was picturing a trolling motor but I’m open to trying pedal drive. Are you able to stand while trolling with a trolling motor? Like I said I’ve only fished out of sit in kayaks before. 

[Bankc]

2 hours ago, August said:

I kind of want a kayak to be like a mini bass boat, so I think I value stability over speed. That’s  why I was picturing a trolling motor but I’m open to trying pedal drive. Are you able to stand while trolling with a trolling motor? Like I said I’ve only fished out of sit in kayaks before. 

Probably not with your budget.  At least not easily.  To be able to fish while standing while using the trolling motor, you almost need a motor capable of running a pre-programmed path (or spot lock, if that's what you want).  Some have remote controls, but it's hard to operate one with your hands while fishing.  Others have foot controls, but with the limited space on the deck of a kayak, and the need to keep your balance, they're pretty difficult to use.  

 

Now I will do this from time to time in mine.  I just have a regular trolling motor on the stern.  But it's one of those, point it in a direction, stand, fish, and about the time I retrieve the lure, I have to make corrections.  So it's a lot of work.  Especially if you hook a fish.  So I'll be constantly bending over to adjust my foot pedals or speed controller.  Though, I must say that it's also always really windy here.  So that ups the level of difficulty significantly.  Other people in other parts of the world might find this a bit easier.  

 

It sounds to me like you'd be better off with a small jon boat and building a fishing deck onto that.  It would probably be beyond your budget, but if you find a good deal on a used one, it might not be too terribly beyond your budget.  Especially if you're willing to do a lot of the work yourself.  

[casts_by_fly]

5 hours ago, August said:

I kind of want a kayak to be like a mini bass boat, so I think I value stability over speed. That’s  why I was picturing a trolling motor but I’m open to trying pedal drive. Are you able to stand while trolling with a trolling motor? Like I said I’ve only fished out of sit in kayaks before. 

 

yes, but what you're describing is going to be up over your budget.  The OT 120 paddle with an XI3 on the front is as close as you're going to get.

 

I'm in the autopilot and its pretty rigged out.  Its what you're talking about WRT a mini bassboat (with considerations).  I don't have a great picture to show, but this is the back half of my boat and the latest electronics.  Similar to a bassboat- spotlock trolling motor, horizontal rods on the deck, stand to fish, super stable (for a kayak, and even for a skinny jon boat).  I fish while standing basically 100% of the time and I'm even happy to motor across a short bay at full speed for a minute or so.  That said, the bare boat MSRP is $4400 now I think.  Then add battery, electronics, and any rigging niceties.

 

A quick search around me shows a sportsman 120 paddle for $1200 including a garmin striker.  An XI3 kayak runs $850 or so.  That's right up on your budget without including a battery or any rigging required.  I think you'll be around $2500 fully rigged for that setup.  But, you'll have a spotlock trolling motor and a stable kayak.

 

 

 

[10,000 lakes Bassin]

3 hours ago, casts_by_fly said:

 

yes, but what you're describing is going to be up over your budget.  The OT 120 paddle with an XI3 on the front is as close as you're going to get.

 

I'm in the autopilot and its pretty rigged out.  Its what you're talking about WRT a mini bassboat (with considerations).  I don't have a great picture to show, but this is the back half of my boat and the latest electronics.  Similar to a bassboat- spotlock trolling motor, horizontal rods on the deck, stand to fish, super stable (for a kayak, and even for a skinny jon boat).  I fish while standing basically 100% of the time and I'm even happy to motor across a short bay at full speed for a minute or so.  That said, the bare boat MSRP is $4400 now I think.  Then add battery, electronics, and any rigging niceties.

 

A quick search around me shows a sportsman 120 paddle for $1200 including a garmin striker.  An XI3 kayak runs $850 or so.  That's right up on your budget without including a battery or any rigging required.  I think you'll be around $2500 fully rigged for that setup.  But, you'll have a spotlock trolling motor and a stable kayak.

 

 

 

Thanks, I appreciate the help 

[JayMac89]

Not to hijack or anything. But i was always kind of curious about this, and it may help August out.

 

But how do these trolling motors on kayaks work? Logistically i mean. I know there's different options. But iv seen ones with a little controller, almost like a key fob. Point being you'd still need your hands to control... which takes them off a fishing pole. But alot of people seem to enjoy these TM powered kayaks. So i feel like i must be wrong. Just curious

[MN Fisher]

1 hour ago, JayMac89 said:

Point being you'd still need your hands to control.

Proper pairing of a TM and Sonar - and the Sonar controls the TM. You can have programs to follow a specific contour maintaining a set depth, set up a route and it'll follow that, tap a Waypoint and the TM will automatically take you there.

[gim]

39 minutes ago, MN Fisher said:

Proper pairing of a TM and Sonar - and the Sonar controls the TM. You can have programs to follow a specific contour maintaining a set depth, set up a route and it'll follow that, tap a Waypoint and the TM will automatically take you there.

I don't think he meant that.  I think he's getting at how you can control it without a foot pedal or pressing spot lock with your foot.  Which obviously, you cannot.  Using sonar paired with the TM would still require you to press buttons or touch the sonar screen, which makes one hand useless for using the rod and reel.

[MN Fisher]

13 minutes ago, gimruis said:

Using sonar paired with the TM would still require you to press buttons or touch the sonar screen, which makes one hand useless for using the rod and reel.

Big difference between momentarily now and then (TM/Sonar) and having to work the controller continuously (no E-mating)

[JayMac89]

Yeah i was just curious. I love my pedal drive. The biggest benefit for me and the way i fish is having hands free. 

 

I'll usually travel the bank, making casts. If I'm coming up on a good looking laydown I'll slow down, stop, swing back around if need be, yada yada yada. Then I'll stand and fish if I'm really picking a spot apart. My point is though i have a hand on a rod at all times outside of the split second it takes to make a slight steering adjustment. Other than that everything's done with feet/pedals. The TM powered yaks don't seem to suit that style of fishing. But again, lots of guys like them so maybe I'm missing somthing

[Choporoz]

@JayMac89, same here.  I'd like a TM for long transits, but I would find a way to keep my pedals

[Fishingmickey]

August, You might look into the NuCanoe Ultimate.  It is a very stable and modifiable (add motor or pedal drive) kayak.  MSRP is or was 1,799 new.  With the 360 swivel seat you can mount a transom mounted trolling motor on the back without all of the complications of adding steering or additional mounts.

 

23 minutes ago, Choporoz said:

@JayMac89, same here.  I'd like a TM for long transits, but I would find a way to keep my pedals

That's how I use my PA14 with the Torqueedo on the back.  Motor for travel and pedal when fishing.

 

FM

[casts_by_fly]

18 hours ago, JayMac89 said:

Not to hijack or anything. But i was always kind of curious about this, and it may help August out.

 

But how do these trolling motors on kayaks work? Logistically i mean. I know there's different options. But iv seen ones with a little controller, almost like a key fob. Point being you'd still need your hands to control... which takes them off a fishing pole. But alot of people seem to enjoy these TM powered kayaks. So i feel like i must be wrong. Just curious

 

You've got 3 basic variants for trolling motors on a kayak.  1- inbuilt, 2- bowmount, 3- stern mount.

 

For #3, you're only using it to get place to place so think of it more like an outboard.

 

For #2, you're more or less talking about an XI3 on the bow.  You can also use a terrova or ulterra but its harder, heavier, and more expensive.  The XI3 comes with the smaller key fob remote.  You can add the wireless foot pedal if you want, but most don't.

 

For #1 you're basically talking about the autopilot (which is what I have).  I think there are 1 or 2 new kayaks out that have a built in TM option, but very few out in the wild yet.  For the AP, it's a minn kota powerdrive head unit and lower on a custom mount/shaft setup.  It comes with the larger ipilot remote which is hand sized and has all of the controls that an ipilot terrova would have (the remotes are interchangable).  There is a microremote available separate for $100 which is key fob sized and has basic functionality.

 

16 hours ago, MN Fisher said:

Proper pairing of a TM and Sonar - and the Sonar controls the TM. You can have programs to follow a specific contour maintaining a set depth, set up a route and it'll follow that, tap a Waypoint and the TM will automatically take you there.

 

The XI3 will pair with lowrance systems and do what you suggest for a kayak.  If you mount an equivalent minn kota to the front of a kayak you can also get Humminbird integration like you describe.  The autopilot doesn't have that functionality.  Also, most kayak bass guys aren't using that functionality.

 

2 hours ago, JayMac89 said:

Yeah i was just curious. I love my pedal drive. The biggest benefit for me and the way i fish is having hands free. 

 

I'll usually travel the bank, making casts. If I'm coming up on a good looking laydown I'll slow down, stop, swing back around if need be, yada yada yada. Then I'll stand and fish if I'm really picking a spot apart. My point is though i have a hand on a rod at all times outside of the split second it takes to make a slight steering adjustment. Other than that everything's done with feet/pedals. The TM powered yaks don't seem to suit that style of fishing. But again, lots of guys like them so maybe I'm missing somthing

 

What you're describing is how I fish.  I tend to go down the bank with moving lures until I find something I want to slow down and fish.  I stand to fish all the time.  With the autopilot, I can control the remote with a single hand (my cranking hand) with the rod in the other hand.  If you're moving steady or if there is wind, the autopilot has heading and cruise control which I think are the most useful functions on the motor.  Set the direction and speed and the motor holds it.  I can set it down to 0.1 mph and it will kick the motor on and off to accomodate it.  Normally something 0.3-0.5mph is a good speed for longer casts and semi picking apart cover.  If I really want to move down the bank with a buzzbait or if it's isolated cover then I might go as fast as 1-1.5 mph.  A light tap on the direction will keep you moving the same distance from shore.  If you want to stop and pick apart a blowdown or dock, hit the spotlock button and you're there.  I'll come from the downwind side and lock a full cast length back from it and start working there.  Then after working that bit, use the jog function to move in 5' increments in any direction around it.  The motor holds you on that GPS point.  When I hook a fish the first think I do is spotlock so I don't get pulled to the cover.

 

Also, on calm days I often don't even have the motor running as I go down the bank.  A spinnerbait or chatterbait has enough resistance to keep the boat moving down the bank slowly.  Vary the angle of the rod and you can basically pull yourself down the bank.

[JayMac89]

Very interesting. Thanks for the info. 

 

My pedal drive is new, so I'm not looking to get into a TM anytime soon. But knew it was a possible option down the line. You guys answered alot of those questions. Sounds like these TMs have far more functionality then i originally thought.  So thank you, and sorry for the hijack.