Has the 21 Zillion made the Metanium & Aldebaran kinda irrelevant?

[ABU is overpriced]

Before the Zillion came out, the metanium was far more suggested in the higher-mid to high end baitcasters, and Aldebaran was always the jerkbait reel. Ever since 2021, all i ever hear is Zillion this and that, and its as if the two shimano reels were almost deleted from everyone's conversation. I don't know if its the $210 price from Japan for the Zillion, its gear set that doesn't go buzzy within a season, or just the whole package, but i have certainly noticed over the last couple of years that when a Shimano reel is suggested, its always the low end (SLX/Curado) or the conquest, since its arguably the best round reel on the market.

[Bigbox99]

28 minutes ago, ABU is overpriced said:

Before the Zillion came out, the metanium was far more suggested in the higher-mid to high end baitcasters, and Aldebaran was always the jerkbait reel. Ever since 2021, all i ever hear is Zillion this and that, and its as if the two shimano reels were almost deleted from everyone's conversation. I don't know if its the $210 price from Japan for the Zillion, its gear set that doesn't go buzzy within a season, or just the whole package, but i have certainly noticed over the last couple of years that when a Shimano reel is suggested, its always the low end (SLX/Curado) or the conquest, since its arguably the best round reel on the market.

It's the 19 Zillion if you go by JDM release year and those that prefer the SVS centrifugal brake of Shimanos over Daiwa's Magforce Z and SV Boost will always prefer the Met.  I see what you mean about the masses maybe prefering or switching to the Zillion for the braking profile with SV Boost.  I like the ability to run 12# Sniper on it throwing jerkbaits early seaon then switching to skipping weightless plastics under docks so I wouldn't even consider a non Daiwa but that's my preference.  I don't know about the Aldebaran.  As an outsider to the alde that reel has always been a finesse reel to me with the whole jerkbait rod pairing being a Tactical Bassin promotion in recent years.  Maybe it was a really well kept secret but I have only heard of this pairing from them and Matt specifically so I wrote it off as a Shimano affiliate promoting a Shimano product.  

[MickD]

What would make a reel specifically a "jerkbait" reel?  thx

[ABU is overpriced]

16 minutes ago, MickD said:

What would make a reel specifically a "jerkbait" reel?  thx

Low profile and as light as possible to balance out on a non tip heavy rod. Of course this fits the bill for many other reels, but when it comes to the higher end reels, this is the reel that i kept hearing the most before 2021.

[softwateronly]

2 hours ago, ABU is overpriced said:

Low profile and as light as possible to balance out on a non tip heavy rod. Of course this fits the bill for many other reels, but when it comes to the higher end reels, this is the reel that i kept hearing the most before 2021.

 

I think I like the alphas 800s more than the met and the zillion.  I'm a weirdo though, I only own shimano and daiwa and don't have a strong preference for either yet I don't even want to try a different brand.  So there's that.  

 

Here's my jerkbait combos, all braid to leader;

 

MC Day 6'92M/F alphas 800s

Expride 6'10M/MF zillion

Poison Adrena 6'11M+/F metanium

 

Every reel you listed can do the job, pick the most comfortable/affordable.

 

scott

[A-Jay]

3 hours ago, MickD said:

What would make a reel specifically a "jerkbait" reel?  thx

When you throw it over the side - it suspends perfect level.

A-Jay

[TNBankFishing]

4 hours ago, ABU is overpriced said:

Before the Zillion came out, the metanium was far more suggested in the higher-mid to high end baitcasters, and Aldebaran was always the jerkbait reel. Ever since 2021, all i ever hear is Zillion this and that, and its as if the two shimano reels were almost deleted from everyone's conversation. I don't know if its the $210 price from Japan for the Zillion, its gear set that doesn't go buzzy within a season, or just the whole package, but i have certainly noticed over the last couple of years that when a Shimano reel is suggested, its always the low end (SLX/Curado) or the conquest, since its arguably the best round reel on the market.

I love my Alde on my St Croix 7’ medium or my xbites before I sold it. 

[casts_by_fly]

I have the zillion, met, bantam, and chronarch (and a bunch of abus). They are equally good reels in quality.  The preference between braking systems and shape might drive you to one or the other. At the same price point there isn’t much to choose between. BUT as you say, for $200 you can get a zillion right now. Last I checked a met or bantam was $260 jdm if you can find one. And at usdm prices it’s a no brained to get a jdm zillion.  You can practically get 2 jdm zillions for the price of a bantam and the aldebaran is even more expensive. 

 

[Columbia Craw]

[GetFishorDieTryin]

I don't get the hate TB gets.  Whether you admit it or not those guys are about it.  They've been at a long time and it's not as easy as it looks, especially the underwater videos. 

I don't think they purposely push any 1 brand, they just like high quality gear and Id be a hypocrite to call them out for it.  It just kind of so happens Shimano just doesn't miss very often.  The last video I saw he was talking top end spinning outfits for strolling and it was an even mix of Daiwa and Shimano reels.  My only hangup with TB is that they've burned some of my favorite baits and gear, making them really hard to get. 

Personally, I love the met.  If I could only use 1 reel for all my rods it would be a Met.  Not taking anything away from zillion, as it's a home run.  The feel, size and shape of a met just puts it over the edge, for me.

 

[FishTank]

I don't look at either one of these reels cancelling each other out. They are each their own thing. The Zillion is a do all workhorse and Aldebaran is more of a finesse reel but not quite BFS.  I do believe the Aldebaran is due for a revamp though.  

 

Also, to me, the new Metanium 100 gives the Zillion a run for its money. It took some of my favorite reels and mashed them together. It has the feel like the old Core 100 and the Bantam put together, plus the insides of the Antares 70A. Even though it looks like an Aldebaran, it seems like a different reel. I might be over thinking it but it's definitely fun to fish and it casts a mile (maybe further than any reel I have used). 

 

[PBBrandon]

I’ve fished Bantams and Chronarchs, never a Met. But Zillions, and Alphas for finesse stuff, haven’t given me a reason to try a Met. I own 2 Zillions and 3 Alphas reels, not one of them has given me a single issue. They are just perfection, and for the price it’s a no brainer.

 

Still want to try a Met eventually though

[bulldog1935]

My freshwater tackle choices might as well be from another planet.  

I don't get all the backlash priority on BR - to me, backlash is something you search for its onset when you're setting up brakes.  But even if the reel has no brakes and requires 100% thumb, no problem, I can cast it and fish it.  

I also don't get the dozen different reels with a dozen different brake systems.  If you have something that works, stick with it, learn how it works, and how to tune it for whatever you want to do with it.  OK, all my 34-mm Daiwas are in salt.  Three Zillion and a Steez.  I have never seen a more reliable or versatile reel - they all swap spools and can be set up to fish 2g  or 2 oz.  

 

I've said this before, when Daiwa's patents expire, every reel made will use this brake system.  Shimano's current variable mag, SVS, doesn't have an accidental name - it's simply that they can claim Daiwa's brake system was their idea when they begin to copy it.  

     

[newapti5]

I am a Daiwa fanboy but I also love Metanium and Bantam. If you look closely to the schematics of '20 Metanium, '18 Bantam, '22 Bantam, and '17 Chronarch MGL, you will see they all use the SAME gearset, except for '22 Bantam the pinion gear is a bit different due to the Infinity Drive design. They're all interchangeable, yet the feels are different. It tells me how much the frame material and tolerance matter, also the Infinity Drive on '22 Bantam has nothing to do with its gearset.

[iabass8]

Kastking quality exceeds all manufacturers post 2020 and it’s not close

[newapti5]

6 minutes ago, iabass8 said:

Kastking quality exceeds all manufacturers post 2020 and it’s not close

 

That is a daring statement, but I am interested in their iReel one DC reel. 

[ABU is overpriced]

1 hour ago, bulldog1935 said:

My freshwater tackle choices might as well be from another planet.  

I don't get all the backlash priority on BR - to me, backlash is something you search for its onset when you're setting up brakes.  But even if the reel has no brakes and requires 100% thumb, no problem, I can cast it and fish it.  

I also don't get the dozen different reels with a dozen different brake systems.  If you have something that works, stick with it, learn how it works, and how to tune it for whatever you want to do with it.  OK, all my 34-mm Daiwas are in salt.  Three Zillion and a Steez.  I have never seen a more reliable or versatile reel - they all swap spools and can be set up to fish 2g  or 2 oz.  

 

I've said this before, when Daiwa's patents expire, every reel made will use this brake system.  Shimano's current variable mag, SVS, doesn't have an accidental name - it's simply that they can claim Daiwa's brake system was their idea when they begin to copy it.  

 

 

Do we actually know when their patent expires?

[Columbia Craw]

53 minutes ago, iabass8 said:

Kastking quality exceeds all manufacturers post 2020 and it’s not close

 

[bulldog1935]

MagForce/Z/SV will become as ubiquitous as Marhoff's LW and Douglas' pinion-lift-freespool (Abu resurfaced in 1954 along w/ their centrifugal).  Daiwa's brake design is too brilliantly simple and brilliantly effective to not become universal.  Patent rights last 18 years from date awarded.  

 

If Lew had patented his ubiquitous LW/spool separation, Shimano wouldn't have made a baitcaster with their name on it before 1993.  Instead, he hired Shimano to build his reels and steal his design.  

 

Something else you can take to the bank.  No reel design that uses a computer chip will ever become more than a novelty.  

[rangerjockey]

50 years of fishing stickbaits and I never knew there was a reel that would help you catch more fish on that bait...

5 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

MagForce/Z/SV will become as ubiquitous as Marhoff's LW and Douglas' pinion-lift-freespool (Abu resurfaced in 1954 along w/ their centrifugal).  Daiwa's brake design is too simple and effective to not become universal.  Patent rights last 18 years from date awarded.  

 

If Lew had patented his ubiquitous LW/spool separation, Shimano wouldn't have made a baitcaster with their name on it before 1993.  Instead, he hired Shimano to build his reels and steal his design.  

Didn't Ryobi also make reels for Lew Childre ?  How long was it after his death was it before Shimano started selling reels based on that design ?

[bulldog1935]

Shimano copied Lew's design in 1975, after 2 years of building Lew's design for Lew.  Took Lew a few more years to set up with Ryobi and start up BB-1N production.  

I'm not answering any more dumb questions on this thread.  

[rangerjockey]

10 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

Shimano copied Lew's design in 1975, after 2 years of building Lew's design for Lew.  Took Lew a few more years to set up with Ryobi and start up BB-1N production.  

I'm not answering any more dumb questions on this thread.  

You talking to me ? If so ,FO

[Bandersnatch]

10 hours ago, FishTank said:

I don't look at either one of these reels cancelling each other out. They are each their own thing. The Zillion is a do all workhorse and Aldebaran is more of a finesse reel but not quite BFS.  I do believe the Aldebaran is due for a revamp though.  

 

Also, to me, the new Metanium 100 gives the Zillion a run for its money. It took some of my favorite reels and mashed them together. It has the feel like the old Core 100 and the Bantam put together, plus the insides of the Antares 70A. Even though it looks like an Aldebaran, it seems like a different reel. I might be over thinking it but it's definitely fun to fish and it casts a mile (maybe further than any reel I have used). 

 

If the metanium 100 is the same frame as all the other recent gen Mets with a different spool I don’t see how it has a feel to the old core 100 that’s any different than the feel of the rest of the Mets including the 150. Am I missing something? 

[FishTank]

3 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

If the metanium 100 is the same frame as all the other recent gen Mets with a different spool I don’t see how it has a feel to the old core 100 that’s any different than the feel of the rest of the Mets including the 150. Am I missing something? 

That's a fair question.  One that I asked myself before buying it. I thought all they did was put in a different spool and rolled with it. 

 

So I was going to get another 2020 Metanium but wanted a deeper spool so the 100 became the obvious choice, plus Digitaka was out of the 20 Left Hand HG model at that time. I was wanting to use it as a dedicated Jackhammer and spinnerbait reel to cover a lot of water.

 

As far as a comparison, the frame feels different, more solid like the Bantam.  The spool cast effortlessly,  like the old Core and it has that special connection,  at least for me, like the Core did. The retrieve is super smooth like the Anteras and it casts a mile, maybe longer than any reel I have tried.  I can almost empty a spool of 14lb FC with a 3/8oz Jackhammer and a Zako trailer. 

 

When you compare it to the 2020 Metanium,  it fishes differently which is something you have to experience for yourself. The 100 does handle lighter baits better than the 2020, which is puzzling, and it has brass gears. Like I said before,  Shimano could have changed the frame design slightly, called it something else and probably sold more.

 

In any case,  both are great. My 2020 Metanium has taken a beating and still feels amazing.  I'm hoping the new 100 can hold up to the same abuse.

 

 

[Bandersnatch]

But they have to be the same frame, right?