Why do treble hook weights change the actions of jerkbaits?

[scmlfty]

This is my first post but I have been using this forum a lot since I started fishing last fall.

 

Recently I bought some jerkbaits around 110mm size (Megabass, Evergreen, Duo, Nishine, Daiwa etc).

 

All most all of them floats when I tested them in my bathtub with tap water, and 5 of the vision 110 floats the fastest,

the tap water is about 40-45 degree.

 

If I want to make them suspend, for example, vision 110, I have to use thicker wire hook or upsize it to #5 hook.

 

A lot of claims that thicker wire hook will affect the action, I watched a youtube video about this, and it claims

 

2X owner or Mustad hooks affects the action without any measurements about how the action is affected and how much it is affected,

 

I know bass fishing industry has a lot of snake oils that if you know basic high school or college physics 101 you can easily tell ( No offense to anyone ).

 

I just want to see if anyone have a solid proof that if I use a thick wire (thicker means 2X here or regular wire) of the same size hook or thicker wire of the 1 size bigger hook, the jerkbaits' actions can be affected, measurably or can obviously seen with by eyes.

 

 

 

Another interesting thing is that Nishine 115 comes with a weight (or sinker), if you add the weight,  the jerkbait slow sinks and if you cut it  a little bit based on your water temperature, it suspends and if you remove it, it 100% floats. Doesn't the weight affect the action, and if it does, why Nishine makes a product like this and why Nishine jerkbaits is extremely popular in JDM bass fishing?

[Columbia Craw]

The buoyancy trait of the bait is established by the manufacturer based on the material, cavity size, internal weights, o-rings and hooks.  You can alter the buoyancy, rate of rise or sink and pitch by changing those external components. The action change should be minuscule unless the component change is radical.  I personally try to keep my jerkbaits as close to factory as possible by matching components weight.

[Scott F]

I use Lucky Craft and Rapala X-Rap jerkbaits and have never had one that floated or sank right out of the box. I’ve had to replace hooks that broke from bending them while removing them from a fish. If the replacement hook was bigger than the factory hooks, the bait would sink instead of suspend but other than that, I never saw or noticed the baits action being altered. 

[scmlfty]

5 minutes ago, Columbia Craw said:

The action change should be minuscule unless the component change is radical.

I completely agree with you, almost all of my 6-7' deep jerkbaits float out of the factory,  and this is tested in a very cold 40-45 degree water, if fishing them in the summer when the water temperature goes above 65, they would float even faster, and those are all good JDM brands. If I want to make them suspend, I have to use a heavier hook.

 

Another point is, if suspension for a relatively long time is really that necessary. I think slow floating or slow sinking would be fine, a relatively stable suspension is only needed in cold water that you want to let it suspend there for a couple of seconds. For fishing in the early spring here, I only stop for 1 or 2 seconds before jerking, and slow suspending or slow sinking will not make any differences with such short stop.

5 minutes ago, Scott F said:

I use Lucky Craft and Rapala X-Rap jerkbaits and have never had one that floated or sank right out of the box. I’ve had to replace hooks that broke from bending them while removing them from a fish. If the replacement hook was bigger than the factory hooks, the bait would sink instead of suspend but other than that, I never saw or noticed the baits action being altered. 

What test condition was it? I mean the water temperature?

[Scott F]

28 minutes ago, scmlfty said:

Another point is, if suspension for a relatively long time is really that necessary. I think slow floating or slow sinking would be fine, a relatively stable suspension is only needed in cold water that you want to let it suspend there for a couple of seconds. For fishing in the early spring here, I only stop for 1 or 2 seconds before jerking, and slow suspending or slow sinking will not make any differences with such short stop.

What test condition was it? I mean the water temperature?

I generally do best and use jerkbaits mostly in water temps from the low 50’s to mid 60’s. In the colder range is when I find very long pauses to work. Pauses that can go over 30 seconds. I found that out when I cast out, cranked down, jerked the bait, then got distracted for a minute or so. When I reeled up, I had a fish, tried a long pause on the next cast and got another one. Anytime I’m not getting hits on my normal jerk-short pause, I start increasing the length of pause time. Doesn’t work all the time, but it’s part of my arsenal. 

[softwateronly]

16 hours ago, scmlfty said:

 

I just want to see if anyone have a solid proof that if I use a thick wire (thicker means 2X here or regular wire) of the same size hook or thicker wire of the 1 size bigger hook, the jerkbaits' actions can be affected, measurably or can obviously seen with by eyes.

 

 

 

Another interesting thing is that Nishine 115 comes with a weight (or sinker), if you add the weight,  the jerkbait slow sinks and if you cut it  a little bit based on your water temperature, it suspends and if you remove it, it 100% floats. Doesn't the weight affect the action, and if it does, why Nishine makes a product like this and why Nishine jerkbaits is extremely popular in JDM bass fishing?

 

I'm a big fan of Nishine jerks and love the customization of the float/sink with the outer weights.  I own a couple 3 packs and use those weights on other jerkbaits because it seems smart and simple to me.  Changing one weight or partial weight on the water is just more efficient than swapping hooks before fishing for me.  With vision 110 jr +1, I've had best luck with attaching a #6 power swivel to the front hook.  It just happened to be with me last fall and is giving me that super slow sink in mid 40ish degree water.  It's slightly visible in this last pic.  

 

scott 

 

 

 

   

[scmlfty]

On 3/31/2024 at 6:41 AM, softwateronly said:

 

I'm a big fan of Nishine jerks and love the customization of the float/sink with the outer weights.  I own a couple 3 packs and use those weights on other jerkbaits because it seems smart and simple to me.  Changing one weight or partial weight on the water is just more efficient than swapping hooks before fishing for me.  With vision 110 jr +1, I've had best luck with attaching a #6 power swivel to the front hook.  It just happened to be with me last fall and is giving me that super slow sink in mid 40ish degree water.  It's slightly visible in this last pic.  

 

scott 

 

 

 

   

Nice fish! I only used my Nishine 115 gunmetal twice last week (bought it two weeks ago), and it destroyed the snake river brown trout in west Wyoming, I got 10 trout within 2 hours, all big ones.

 

Using a swivel as a weight is an excellent idea, I might try that too. I have been using the lead tape to make Jerkabaits suspend, but I am more and more confident that as long as the jerkbaits don't sink or float too fast, it should be fine, maybe just adding a tiny swivel is a less messy method to adjust the falling/floating rates.

[softwateronly]

@scmlfty Thanks dude.  I lost my MD gunmetal to a pike last fall, down to SD and MD in hologram smelt.  The MD's are the deepest diving jerks I've ever tried.  With a slow sink and slow cadence, I can drag up weeds in 16-17'.  Sometimes I'll throw 2 weights on the SD, then the rips come up in the water column in a bit.  Seems to trigger on certain days.  Good luck!

 

scott

[WRB]

You all got the cold cs warm water flotation backwards; colder water has higher density the warmer water. The floats easier in cold 40-45 degree water the 55-60 degree.

Some Owner treble hooks use Zo wire that is lighter weight. 
I would suggest start with 1 size larger front treble hook and split ring as balance is more important then floatation or suspending.

A.Jay has lots of jerk bait tuning hours, listen to him.

Tom

[GreenPig]

I don't change hook size or thickness and use Hairwire lead and adjust as needed. With the amount of weight I usually add,  I haven't noticed a difference in action. 

[MickD]

"Why do treble hook weights change the actions of jerkbaits?"  Why would changing the weight of the hooks NOT change the action ?

[scmlfty]

16 hours ago, WRB said:

You all got the cold cs warm water flotation backwards; colder water has higher density the warmer water. The floats easier in cold 40-45 degree water the 55-60 degree.

Some Owner treble hooks use Zo wire that is lighter weight. 
I would suggest start with 1 size larger front treble hook and split ring as balance is more important then floatation or suspending.

A.Jay has lots of jerk bait tuning hours, listen to him.

Tom

I really like some of your posts ( I have read/learned a lot for the past few months).

However, your statement is incorrect for this matter.

This is quite a tricky thing to think about, and initially I was thinking about the same way.

You have to consider the relative density, i.e. the lure also expands or contracts at different temperature, the reality is, in almost all situations, the lure's density changes faster than the water, so in colder water, the lure is relatively denser than the warmer water. 

I have done the tests myself, and I have talked about this issue with one of my friends and he's been bass fishing for 19 years. We both and PHD degrees in engineering. Please forgive my grammars, English is not my first language.

I also found Megabass did the tests themselves long time ago and made a post in another forum