Hank Parker's Controversial Take on FFF!!

[osummerer23]

38 minutes ago, slowworm said:

And yet Ben Millikan finished 50th....

 

 

Ok... and? Somebody has to come in last place?

 

[slowworm]

6 minutes ago, osummerer23 said:

Ok... and? Somebody has to come in last place?

 

He's been the poster child for FFS.  So FFS is not a magic bullet.

[Fishingmickey]

7 minutes ago, osummerer23 said:

Ok... and? Somebody has to come in last place?

 

I think that point that Slowworm's comment is making is the fact that Ben Millikan is an FFS expert and he didn't do well at all and there is a lot more to it then pitching a jig head minnow on their nose.

FM

[slowworm]

40 minutes ago, Motoboss said:

I feel the whole conversation for me is cost. It’s expensive. Younger folks can’t afford it, or their families, or their school or their club. Does that make them less of an angler even  with tangible targeting skill? I don’t believe so. But it does put them at a disadvantage to lesser skilled anglers whom know how to use FFS and can afford it.

I think it’s leading to, like many other sports, those with “means” will excel and those with less financial opportunity will,,,,,,work at the marina. Has nothing to do with ability. It’s become an honest cheat.

Younger folks can't afford a 21ft glitter boat with a 250hp motor for $80K either.  Or a 70k truck to pull it with.  I'm middle aged with a good job and I can't afford these things either. Not with a family and all that goes with that.  And yet, at the elite levels you need a 21ft boat with a 250hp motor.

 

Garmin Livescope is $1200 or so.  Add a 9" SV UHD on sale for $700 and you get FFS for less than 2 grand.  I just spent more than that for a Garmin Force.  For a 5-year-old Tracker 175 with a 60 HP pulled by a 20-year-old truck.  I do not for a moment buy the cost argument.  FFS is cheap compared to the trucks and boats.  And screens were multiplying with 12" and 16" units before FFS.

 

There are many arguments for/against FFS, but cost is not one of them.

[Motoboss]

Maybe not in your world

[you]

As someone who doesn't fish professionally, I've no opinion on it's use in the big leagues. A few folks have already noted a salient truth: the pros' job is to advertise.

 

The point about accessibility in high school leagues (or, say, opens) resonates with me, though. If FFS is beneficial enough that it stratifies the field between users and non-users, that's an issue that will ultimately dampen interest and participation in the sport. Not great.

 

In lakes around here, I've noticed quite a few more boats spending their time offshore. It takes pressure off the bank where I usually patrol, not only for the fish, but the added experience of seeing more birds, otters, turtles, flowers, trees, etc. More power to the offshore folks if they are catching 'em, but I go fishing to get away from screens.

 

Regardless of what happens with electronics in competitions, I would love to see the conversation shift to conservation. Do we need to revise bag limits in response to more effective harvest by folks with FFS? Are other factors like pollution or invasive species having more of an impact? Protecting the sport means protecting the ecosystems where it's played.

[Texas Flood]

[slowworm]

3 minutes ago, you said:

Regardless of what happens with electronics in competitions, I would love to see the conversation shift to conservation. Do we need to revise bag limits in response to more effective harvest by folks with FFS? Are other factors like pollution or invasive species having more of an impact? Protecting the sport means protecting the ecosystems where it's played.

This is really the heart of the matter.  So far, the studies that have been done on bass fishing indicate no changes necessary.  But, we need longer term studies on more lakes across the country. And pollution and habitat change need to be factored in.

 

You can argue fair chase and FFS as much as you like, and it's a valid debate.  But so far, no study has indicated any adverse impact to a Bass fishery from its use.  If there is one, please link it.  Without hard data, everything else is just an anecdote.

 

 

[Woody B]

These videos and thread amaze me.   A quick internet search shows that Hank last won the Classic in 1989.   Just more attention seeking behavior from a has been.  (there I said it)

 

Let's go back to cane poles and jon boats.  This other stuff is too expensive.   

 

[Team9nine]

It’s a boy doll, so…

 

[PhishLI]

On 3/25/2024 at 8:16 PM, Motoboss said:

My Nephew is a Pro fisherman and multiline bass boat dealer. He has a $100,000 custom Phoenix boat with $40,000 worth of electronics on it

 

On 3/25/2024 at 8:16 PM, Motoboss said:

Didn't make the cut in a tournament in Florida this past weekend. Before you say he’s a bad fisherman, he IS a sponsored Professional and has been for near twenty years. He can flatout fish!

You can see this happen in most tournaments. Someone who seems unbeatable one week misses the cut or finishes quite low the next time out. Nothing happens if the fish you found in practice are gone or have been stung multiple times, or if you can't get on your spots because locals or other pros got there first.

56 minutes ago, Woody B said:

A quick internet search shows that Hank last won the Classic in 1989.   Just more attention seeking behavior from a has been.  (there I said it)

He retired at the top of his game for greener pastures. Not quite a has been.

[king fisher]

1 hour ago, Woody B said:

Just more attention seeking behavior from a has been. 

Is it possible you can make your argument for or against FFS without attacking someone personally.  Maybe like saying Hank Parker has been out of the game for awhile, and I feel his opinion may be out dated.  This would have made your point without insulting anyone.  I am getting older, and don't mind someone telling me they feel my opinion is outdated, but I would take offense to being called a has been.  There appears to be a trend in our society for people to personally insult, or give a derogatory nick name to any one they don't agree with.  I don't know when this trend started, but I do wish it would stop.  

[A-Jay]

14 minutes ago, king fisher said:

Is it possible you can make your argument for or against FFS without attacking someone personally.  Maybe like saying Hank Parker has been out of the game for awhile, and I feel his opinion may be out dated.  This would have made your point without insulting anyone.  I am getting older, and don't mind someone telling me they feel my opinion is outdated, but I would take offense to being called a has been.  There appears to be a trend in our society for people to personally insult, or give a derogatory nick name to any one they don't agree with.  I don't know when this trend started, but I do wish it would stop.  

Take a hike you has been wild bush plane pilot, multi species fishing guide, ocean navigator, Sport fishing freak of nature ! 

A-Jay

[Tennessee Boy]

I’ll throw another log on this fire.  
 

This is one of the best discussions on the topic that I’ve seen by some more current anglers.

 

[Born 2 fish]

Here you go this is 5 years old where was the uproar then ? There wasn’t one because the household named  bass ( pro’s ) weren’t getting beat by some new kid.
 

 

[Woody B]

1 hour ago, Born 2 fish said:

Here you go this is 5 years old where was the uproar then ? There wasn’t one because the household named  bass ( pro’s ) weren’t getting beat by some new kid.

 

The funny thing about this whole thing is for as long as there has been organized sports household names have been getting beat by new kids.  It's a natural progression.  Richard Petty got older, there was Earnhardt.  Earnhardt got older, here comes Gordon.  Every so often it happens in every sport.  New kid Brady was Bledsoe's backup.   

[osummerer23]

4 hours ago, Fishingmickey said:

I think that point that Slowworm's comment is making is the fact that Ben Millikan is an FFS expert and he didn't do well at all and there is a lot more to it then pitching a jig head minnow on their nose.

FM

Of course there is more to it, everyone who fishes understands that. Seeing them is not catching them. Finding them is the skill that is being muted.  

 

Early season, cold water 48*, bright sunny day. I would guess fish are holding tight to exposed timber. I would cover it first with a spinner bait or square bill, then slower with a jerkbait, then run a jig or t rig along the bottom. Maybe catch nothing, maybe catch some and find a pattern. 

 

Now with FFS, trolling motor on 100, blast through the timber scanning. Maybe don't see fish and move on. Maybe spot a fish plop a ball head jig on its nose. 

 

The pro's are telling you they need it to compete... They are literally telling you it's a crutch now.

 

In the classic, day 3, Lee Livesay was paralleling a wind blown bluff wall with a crank. Hite and Zona, 'the kind of place you expect to catch one'. Cherry, dock fishing pockets with a chatter bait. People who fished with intuition from things they learned from time on the water. Experience based on water temp, color, wind, etc... Lee could just have easily idled by scanning and then moved on. But his skill and experience say this is a high value target.

 

The FFS guys aren't doing that, they are trolling motor on 100 looking for blobs on a screen.

 

FFS is like knowing where the next pitch will be placed in baseball. All you have to do is guess the speed. Or in bass fishing, guess the right bait/presentation. 

[Tennessee Boy]

@osummerer23 you are spot on.   I remember well the day I realized I could use my fish finder to scan for fish instead of using my intuition.   It was 1995.   There have been pros spending their entire practice time graphing without making a cast for at least 15 years.    You can look for them with technology but you still have to use your intuition to know where to look.  
 

What the old guys are saying is that FFS is showing them that the intuition they learned from decades of fishing is mostly wrong.

[Susky River Rat]

3 hours ago, Born 2 fish said:

Here you go this is 5 years old where was the uproar then ? There wasn’t one because the household named  bass ( pro’s ) weren’t getting beat by some new kid.
 

 

This is the exact reason I quit musky fishing. The areas are to small and I don’t stand a chance without using it.  I watched a guy take a near impossible lake around here and bag 2 and 3 a day using FFS. 

[BucksBasser]

5 hours ago, slowworm said:

This is really the heart of the matter.  So far, the studies that have been done on bass fishing indicate no changes necessary.  But, we need longer term studies on more lakes across the country. And pollution and habitat change need to be factored in.

 

You can argue fair chase and FFS as much as you like, and it's a valid debate.  But so far, no study has indicated any adverse impact to a Bass fishery from its use.  If there is one, please link it.  Without hard data, everything else is just an anecdote.

 

 

As far as PA goes, I'm confident the PAFBC biologists are already factoring that in as they continually monitor lakes around the state.  For over 25 years I've called a couple times a year to ask about various lakes I am planning trips to that year.  They always seem to have a handle on things.  Most times confirming what I've already researched about a lake but sometimes mentioning issues and suggestions on nearby lakes where I might have better success.  I've also had contacts with other biologists while working trout stream improvements with TU.  This gives me confidence in these professionals guidance to the state fisheries commission.

22 minutes ago, Susky River Rat said:

This is the exact reason I quit musky fishing. The areas are to small and I don’t stand a chance without using it.  I watched a guy take a near impossible lake around here and bag 2 and 3 a day using FFS. 

In PA?  Were they released?

 

[TnRiver46]

6 hours ago, you said:

 the conversation shift to conservation. 

That made my eyes go crossed. lil bit 

[Susky River Rat]

@BucksBasser yes

[CaughtMeABiggun]

We need to be really honest about something. FFS is not a learning tool. Learning tools are something that you use to improve a skillset while not being a skillset. I don't see anyone that has FFS saying “Well I’ve learned how to be a better fisherman… Don’t need the FFS anymore… “ It’s laughable.. 

[Susky River Rat]

@CaughtMeABiggun they are learning fish aren’t where we always thought they were or react how we think they did. They also know they can’t catch those fish without it. You are spot on. It’s not teaching you how to fish. It’s just letting you cast to them and see them in real-time. 
 

 

[Tennessee Boy]

20 hours ago, CaughtMeABiggun said:

We need to be really honest about something. FFS is not a learning tool. Learning tools are something that you use to improve a skillset while not being a skillset. I don't see anyone that has FFS saying “Well I’ve learned how to be a better fisherman… Don’t need the FFS anymore… “ It’s laughable.. 

A learning tool is a tool that helps you learn something.  One of the most common ways we learn is through observation.   Microscopes,  telescopes,  regular sonar,  underwater cameras,  and FFS are all examples of tools that help you learn by observation.  One of the things FFS has opened my eyes to is how bait fish move throughout the day and during different seasons.  The learning possibilities are endless when you can see how fish move.  You don’t even have to be an angler to learn from it.   @Catt posted a video a while back showing how Texas Wildlife officials were using it to study bass behavior.