Hank Parker's Controversial Take on FFF!!

[Motoboss]

Watching the Bassmaster’s  today I was thoroughly disappointed by the side by side split screen showing Justin Hamner’s FFS screen while he was watching it. It’s a blob of squiggles pulsing in color that means zero to me, but he understands it. But why would I watch a guy watch tv while watching his tv on a split screen showing him watching tv. If it’s allowed, then fine but don’t expect folks to tune in to see this boring trype.

It suked……never did see him catch a fish under a dock but saw a lot of glowing tv color.

[Glenn]

2 hours ago, Team9nine said:

Three and a half minutes...

I don't think he should've used any of it. Not going to change my mind on that, so we can agree to disagree and leave it at that.

[TnRiver46]

11 hours ago, Motoboss said:

Watching the Bassmaster’s  today I was thoroughly disappointed by the side by side split screen showing Justin Hammer’s FFS screen while he was watching it. It’s a blob of squiggles pulsing in color that means zero to me, but he understands it. But why would I watch a guy watch tv while watching his tv on a split screen showing him watching tv. If it’s allowed, then fine but don’t expect folks to tune in to see this boring trype.

It suked……never did see him catch a fish under a dock but saw a lot of glowing tv color.

There were tons of dock catches, from hamner and several others 

[Logan S]

I think he's right.  Honestly/Personally, I don't think it should be allowed at all.  Realistically, I think it probably should be allowed but with some restrictions in place on both the FFS setup specifically and the total electronics package on tournament boats.  There's so many other limitations already in place that no one bats an eye at, it would be strange if FFS wasn't limited.  

 

There's a bunch of reasons behind my stance, based on my own experience with FFS on my boat.  But if I had to pick a one-sentence answer...It waters down the bass fishing experience too much.

[Bird]

We're already superior to the animals and the fishes......a little more ain't gonna hurt nothing.

Nah I really do understand both sides, who is really right ?

[Choporoz]

23 minutes ago, Logan S said:

it waters down the bass fishing experience too much...

I like this take.  I get that it is extraordinarily subjective, but I agree.  It goes hand in hand with Randy's comments about wanting to be surprised when a fish bites.

 

   I think it is easy to imagine not so distant future technology that will allow 4K real-time video camera on every fish within 100 yards...or remote controlled lure that sends back video that you can drive to any fish you choose....Most everyone will have a point at which they say 'OK, that's far enough'... Somehow the community will need to agree on that tipping point... or oerhaps more likely, the various tournament owners and DNR's will help drive towards limitations 

[king fisher]

11 hours ago, Glenn said:

I don't think he should've used any of it. Not going to change my mind on that, so we can agree to disagree and leave it at that.

You copied and posted it, is there a difference?

[Texas Flood]

23 hours ago, king fisher said:

  Time will tell, lets give it some time

You must be new around here.

[Skunkmaster-k]

Conspiracy. 

[WRB]

It’s been about 4 years since I posted my 1st experience fishing with a boat that had FFS-Live Scope stating it is a game changer and every tournament angler must have this to be competitive.

Time has proven my point. 
You can’t put the cat back in the bag FFS-Live Scope will only improve. Is it good or bad for tournament bass fishing is a mute point as the majority of bass anglers with bass boats already have this technology.

Ban FFS-Live Scope is like banning trolling, it only affects the pro anglers fishing tournament the weekend anglers are already catching bass with it and they put far more pressure on bass populations then the pro’s do!

Tom

[BucksBasser]

On 3/23/2024 at 9:26 PM, Darren. said:

I agree with Hank. I'm all for technology, but FFS does not

feel to me like it belongs in the tournaments. Hank's take

and comparison to MLB and golf with the added rubber

compounds changing the balls is spot on. The past two

weekend Bassmaster tourneys have felt...odd to me.

The big bag hauls in the first day are extraordinary.

Multiple 8 pounders on Lake Fork? It's unnatural, I tell ya!

😁 The whole watching the FFS sonar while the dude 

plays FFS video game and BANG, there's the bite! It just

feels like a cheat code.

How does that jive with ML juicing the ball up to increase HR production in recent years?

Or golf allowing improved club head groves and large drivers back in the 90's?

[Motoboss]

My Nephew is a Pro fisherman and multiline bass boat dealer. He has a $100,000 custom Phoenix boat with $40,000 worth of electronics on it (to Hank Parker’s point).  Huge big screens, dual FFS, DI/SI, auto GPS waypoint plotting and every type of fish finding equipment you can get for both he and his co angler.

 

Didn't make the cut in a tournament in Florida this past weekend. Before you say he’s a bad fisherman, he IS a sponsored Professional and has been for near twenty years. He can flatout fish!

His Wife made the point that maybe he should go back to spending a little more time on FISHING and not watching expensive tv’s 😃

Skill counts

I agree

[Glenn]

9 hours ago, king fisher said:

You copied and posted it, is there a difference?

I linked to it.  He gets the views and impressions generated from my post.

 

Randy took it all for himself.

[slowworm]

6 minutes ago, Motoboss said:

My Nephew is a Pro fisherman and multiline bass boat dealer. He has a $100,000 custom Phoenix boat with $40,000 worth of electronics on it (to Hank Parker’s point).  Huge big screens, dual FFS, DI/SI, auto GPS waypoint plotting and every type of fish finding equipment you can get for both he and his co angler.

 

Didn't make the cut in a tournament in Florida this past weekend. Before you say he’s a bad fisherman, he IS a sponsored Professional and has been for near twenty years. He can flatout fish!

His Wife made the point that maybe he should go back to spending a little more time on FISHING and not watching expensive tv’s 😃

Skill counts

I agree

The golf analogy has been raised a few times in this thread.  One solution might be akin to the golf handicap.  Each inch of screen diagonal is so many points.  Each transducer is so many points.  Spotlock, sidescan etc. is so many points each.

 

You can spend those points how you like, but there are never enough points to have everything.   So, you may be able to have FFS and spot lock on the boat, but only one 9" screen on the console and one 12" screen on the bow.  

 

Or maybe forgo a GPS enabled trolling motor and get 2 bigger screens on the bow.

 

This is kind of like video games where, as you level up you get to choose where you spend your points, but it's never enough to get everything.

 

This way nothing gets banned and everything becomes compromised best suited to how you fish.

[king fisher]

10 minutes ago, Glenn said:

I linked to it.  He gets the views and impressions generated from my post.

 

Randy took it all for himself.

That makes sense, thanks.

[greentrout]

On 3/24/2024 at 10:29 AM, king fisher said:

The one thing I am certain of is the young anglers on the tour are highly skilled and deserve to be where they are.  I also am certain that the older pros are not to old to learn the required skills to stay on top.  Most have only installed the new units in the past year.  A year from now they will be up to speed and competing at the top level again.

 

I have never bought in to the idea the veterans can't adapt and learn the electronics. Great point.

 

Good Fishing 

[BucksBasser]

On 3/24/2024 at 6:23 AM, Susky River Rat said:

There is probably 12 different threads on here that all turned into a FFS battle going pages and pages. Now the principal wants to have a discussion and everyone is quiet. 
 

I also would like to add I think FFS is neat from what people have learned about fish and either proved or disproved theories for decades.  I still do not think it had a place in professional/ competitive  fishing of any sort. Personally I would not like it used recreationally with but, I think that would be even harder. If laws  rules and regulations didn’t work to some extent we wouldn’t have a modern civilization. 

All sonar technologies are going to increase in resolution to where you can see the fish in full detail.  Where do you draw a line?  Assuming you do.  Do you ban all sonar?  The technology will outpace any regulations that are put against it.  

 

As of now statistical studies do not show any negative impact to fish populations for recreational fishing.  If it does in the future state fishery agencies can simply adjust seasonal and catch limits to address.  IMHO environmental and other impacts have much more impact on fisheries than sonar.

 

[Susky River Rat]

@BucksBasser 2d sonar is not going to get that good to see something that small through the water column. I highly doubt that anyway.  That also becomes a safety factor. You need to know what’s below you. Don’t go scorched earth and make a crazy hyperbole.

 

Up until this point we have not other than flashers been able to see a fish in real time. This is letting us fish for them in real time bother them go through our boxes till it eats. You are literally pin pointing fish to cast at.  I do not feel that is sporting or has integrity. Spot lock keeps on a spot. Side scan helps you find structure. 2D and down view let you see what’s there. None of that lets you snipe individual fish. I’m not debating whether it will kill off the fish. I am not saying there is not skill behind it.
 

It’s literally going against what most of us got into fishing for. You feel a tug had no clue it was going to happen and you have fun reeling it in because it was unknown. Everyone wants to take the easier way out instead of embracing the chase. Everyone wants instant gratification because that’s what society has bred us into. Pros are telling you they don’t want to fish this way but, they have to.

 

I am not some old grumpy guy who hates technology or can’t afford it. I’m 33. I could very well go out today and drop 30k cash to set my boat up like the pros. I choose not to. 

[Tennessee Boy]

3 hours ago, Susky River Rat said:

It’s literally going against what most of us got into fishing for. You feel a tug had no clue it was going to happen and you have fun reeling it in because it was unknown.

Please don’t speak for “most of us”.   My first experience’s fishing for bass was in the 1970s wading crystal clear creeks where I often pinpointed a fish’s position and then cast to them.  
 

Everyone get’s to decide what they enjoy about the sport and why they do it.  Everyone can fish the way they want as long as it’s legal.

 

3 hours ago, Susky River Rat said:

Pros are telling you they don’t want to fish this way but, they have to.

Some are and some are not.  I don’t think Justin Hamner is complaining about having to use Livescope in the Classic and neither is Milliken even though he finished in 50th place.

[BucksBasser]

On 3/24/2024 at 9:56 PM, Motoboss said:

Watching the Bassmaster’s  today I was thoroughly disappointed by the side by side split screen showing Justin Hamner’s FFS screen while he was watching it. It’s a blob of squiggles pulsing in color that means zero to me, but he understands it. But why would I watch a guy watch tv while watching his tv on a split screen showing him watching tv. If it’s allowed, then fine but don’t expect folks to tune in to see this boring trype.

It suked……never did see him catch a fish under a dock but saw a lot of glowing tv color.

Interestingly I tuned in on Saturday.  Largely because I'm anxious to get out but my boat is in winter storage until next week.

 

I hadn't watched a live tournament in years.  It used to be boring to me.  Largely because of poor camera work and video production.  What I saw Saturday was much more entertaining than in the past.  I watched for a few hours.

It's possible that my cabin fever up here in the NE with all the rain recently was a factor.

[osummerer23]

The big thing davey and zona keep talking about is how great 'rookie' anglers are. 'It used to be prime tourney fishing in their mid 30's'. Then they toted, high school and collegiate BASS prowess. Trying not to talk about the white elephant and state FFS dramatically reduced the skill gap.

 

FFS just leveled the playing field. No need to travel for 10 years learning the in's and out's of highland vs lowland, vs north or south. Just spend 4 16hour days in practice locating fish with ffs and then plop a ball head jig on their nose.

[slowworm]

32 minutes ago, osummerer23 said:

The big thing davey and zona keep talking about is how great 'rookie' anglers are. 'It used to be prime tourney fishing in their mid 30's'. Then they toted, high school and collegiate BASS prowess. Trying not to talk about the white elephant and state FFS dramatically reduced the skill gap.

 

FFS just leveled the playing field. No need to travel for 10 years learning the in's and out's of highland vs lowland, vs north or south. Just spend 4 16hour days in practice locating fish with ffs and then plop a ball head jig on their nose.

And yet Ben Millikan finished 50th....

 

 

[Motoboss]

I feel the whole conversation for me is cost. It’s expensive. Younger folks can’t afford it, or their families, or their school or their club. Does that make them less of an angler even  with tangible targeting skill? I don’t believe so. But it does put them at a disadvantage to lesser skilled anglers whom know how to use FFS and can afford it.

I think it’s leading to, like many other sports, those with “means” will excel and those with less financial opportunity will,,,,,,work at the marina. Has nothing to do with ability. It’s become an honest cheat.

[Born 2 fish]

So watching someone who’s dropshoting watching 2d is ok but watching someone who’s scoping isn’t? Mega 360 is ok? Side image is ok but livescope isn’t ? Watching someone fish on tv is boring no matter how they are fishing. If we were still watching a half hour edited bass master tv show showing all the highlights the complaints would be less then watching 4 hours of live coverage. This technology  has been out for years but now it’s a issue because most of the older elites didn’t adapt to it. I seen Chris Lanes video yesterday saying he just wants to fish how he likes to fish doesn’t everyone. Maybe some pros aren’t as versatile as everyone thinks and it’s definitely showing as more anglers cry about getting beat by not being able to flip bushes in every tournament. 
 

As far as it’s to expensive that’s a bunch of B.S you can get a 7 or 9” screen and a transducer for the same price as one big SI unit you don’t have to have a 22” NBT screen ans 6 transducers. If you can afford a bass boat or any other nice fishing boat you can afford to buy livescope that’s a fact. 
 

I’ve been bass fishing for 40 years  and this year I will have FFS on my boat it’s just another tool to me. 

[Tennessee Boy]

Trey McKinney is at the top of the BassMaster AOY race ahead of all the old long time favorites and he’s only 19 years.   He makes use of Livescope and credits it for his victory at Lake Fork.   It’s easy to give LiveScope all the credit.

 

Let’s look at the other evidence of McKinney’s success.   In 2018 he made history by winning the Junior Bassmaster Championship and the FLW Junior World Championship at age 13.  He won his first boat at age 16 and has won 3 in total.    This was before LiveScope.   Kids are getting heavy exposure to tournament fishing at a young age.   They are using FFS to learn how fish actually behave and they do not have to unlearn all the bad information we all learn before FFS.  It’s a new world and it belongs to young guns like McKinney.   Don’t disrespect them.   Many of these guys are proven hammers.