Will we see tourneys where FFS isn't allowed?

[BigAngus752]

19 hours ago, Team9nine said:

but live bait is

This is the best point so far in this thread.  This is a no-brainer.  So, if this is the threshold, what "advantage" meets this?  Definitely not FFS.  Not even close. 

 

 

[Koz]

FFS is not going away - there's too much sponsor money involved. That being said, a state DNR may decide to ban it and that could change where pro tournaments are held.

 

The scary part is that the technology is only going to get better. I can imagine a time when the unit  has AI capabilities and will scan a fish, create a 3D model, and a little box will pop up telling you the size and species.

 

What would be interesting is if any of the elite series tournaments banned FFS on the last day of the tournament.

[KP Duty]

8 minutes ago, Koz said:

FFS is not going away - there's too much sponsor money involved. That being said, a state DNR may decide to ban it and that could change where pro tournaments are held.

 

The scary part is that the technology is only going to get better. I can imagine a time when the unit  has AI capabilities and will scan a fish, create a 3D model, and a little box will pop up telling you the size and species.

 

What would be interesting is if any of the elite series tournaments banned FFS on the last day of the tournament.

Technology will indeed get better.  How long until your sonar unit defines fish species and length?

[Koz]

3 minutes ago, KP Duty said:

Technology will indeed get better.  How long until your sonar unit defines fish species and length?

My guess is that inside 12 -18 months we'll see that happen. AI is going to be the driver for this.

[33oldtimer]

Only State agencies will put a stop to it. It would be nice if tournaments would limit FFS to practice only. Once State agencies get involved it will likely involve heavy-handed regulations.

[Team9nine]

25 minutes ago, Koz said:

The scary part is that the technology is only going to get better. I can imagine a time when the unit  has AI capabilities and will scan a fish, create a 3D model, and a little box will pop up telling you the size and species.

 

11 minutes ago, Koz said:

My guess is that inside 12 -18 months we'll see that happen. AI is going to be the driver for this.

My guess is that given the push to installing 4-6 FFS transducers on a boat, coupled with AI and the ability to network all the units, the AI will be able to monitor all screens/transducers in virtual “real time,” and immediately notify the user on the main bow unit screen which transducer identified a fish (likely a bass based on return characteristics), which direction and distance, etc. If also programmed with the company’s TM, a push of a button will automatically let the TM reposition the bow to face the identified return on the main screen to be fished for. I also imagine the programming could allow for minimum length/wt chosen by the angler, whereby at the start of the day, all ‘keeper’ sized bass get identified and responded to, but as an anglers catch increases, they could simply input a minimum return strength whereby, say, only fish over 4 lbs generates the notification.

[A-Jay]

56 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

 

My guess is that given the push to installing 4-6 FFS transducers on a boat, coupled with AI and the ability to network all the units, the AI will be able to monitor all screens/transducers in virtual “real time,” and immediately notify the user on the main bow unit screen which transducer identified a fish (likely a bass based on return characteristics), which direction and distance, etc. If also programmed with the company’s TM, a push of a button will automatically let the TM reposition the bow to face the identified return on the main screen to be fished for. I also imagine the programming could allow for minimum length/wt chosen by the angler, whereby at the start of the day, all ‘keeper’ sized bass get identified and responded to, but as an anglers catch increases, they could simply input a minimum return strength whereby, say, only fish over 4 lbs generates the notification.

Isn't that something.

How about using the AI and the trolling motor

to "Lock On" to a particular 'Big' fish and follow it all over the lake.  

Oh this might turn into quite the spectacle. 

I can't wait !

A-Jay

 

 

[PourMyOwn]

44 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

Isn't that something.

How about using the AI and the trolling motor

to "Lock On" to a particular 'Big' fish and follow it all over the lake.  

Oh this might turn into quite the spectacle. 

I can't wait !

A-Jay

 

 

I'd love if it ended up being a 6 pound drum. 

[rangerjockey]

Hopefully,,it will die a quick death but I doubt it. Honestly I don't think there all that much money coming from Garmin or Lowrance ect. I'm sure like the boat manufacturers there is incentive money paid out. But that doesn't need to include FFS.

BASS ,MLF etc. needs to grow a pair before it's too late.

 

 

[Skunkmaster-k]

I’d watch tournaments without Fartward Facing Sonars. Beano could be a sponsor. 

[gim]

Don't think that state agencies will just flat out ban it in recreational fishing.  There are too many people that have thousands of dollars invested into it already and enforcing a full ban seems completely unrealistic.  What I could see happening is bag limits continued to be lowered to the point where some bodies of water just become catch and release.  I could also see them requiring a "live sonar" certification on your angling license for a fee.

 

Tournaments are a completely different discussion item.

 

I'm not for a full ban in recreational or tournament fishing, but it seems like some kind of limitation should be in place.  There's a reasonable chance it'll be on my boat someday too.  I could go buy it and have it professionally installed in a week if I wanted to.

[Logan S]

This thing is not as polarized and so many make it out to be.  Tons of anglers that want to see some type of regulation on FFS actually have FFS themselves (like me and most of the guys I fish with).... So a significant percentage of the anglers that would otherwise fish such a trail probably have FFS on their boats.  It's too much of a hassle to remove the FFS transducers for some tournaments and put it back on for others....So they just won't participate.  Tournament trails won't survive without participation.  

 

I've never seen a tournament trail with some type of restriction in place like this survive.  Previously, this type of thing used to be done with length/HP limits...Trails would pop up or split off from others for 150HP and under boats for example.  They don't last long and if they split off from an existing trail they often drag the original trail down with it.  As big as we think bass fishing is, tournament bass fishing really isn't all that big....If you split the angler base, you probably won't survive long.  

 

Ideally there would be some type of universally agreed on rule in place around this stuff, similar to how 250HP seems to be generally agreed upon max HP across most tours.  That way anglers could set their boats up and fish multiple trails without worrying about different rulings.  

[gim]

6 minutes ago, Logan S said:

It's too much of a hassle to remove the FFS transducers for some tournaments and put it back on for others....So they just won't participate.  Tournament trails won't survive without participation.  

 

I've never seen a tournament trail with some type of restriction in place like this survive. 

 

I assume you're specifically referring to bass fishing.  The PMTT (Professional Muskie Tournament Trail) which is the highest level of muskie competition fishing in the country banned it.  They allow it to be used in pre-fishing but during tournament days the transducers must be removed.  They can still use the graphs.  I don't know how many anglers actually use it pre-fishing but remove them prior to the tournament day(s).  I'm sure some go through that hassle because they want to and feel it helps.

 

When they instilled this ban, there was rumor that they would lose participants.  Bear in mind that this muskie tour isn't nearly as big or elaborate as any pro bass (or even walleye tour).  Sponsors don't pump in thousands of dollars to individual anglers.  In fact, many don't even have sponsors.

 

They not only still have as many participants, they've gained some since the ban started.  Its as popular as its ever been to my knowledge.

[Logan S]

3 minutes ago, gimruis said:

Don't think that state agencies will just flat out ban it in recreational fishing.  There are too many people that have thousands of dollars invested into it already and enforcing a full ban seems completely unrealistic.  What I could see happening is bag limits continued to be lowered to the point where some bodies of water just become catch and release.  I could also see them requiring a "live sonar" certification on your angling license for a fee.

 

Tournaments are a completely different discussion item.

 

I'm not for a full ban in recreational or tournament fishing, but it seems like some kind of limitation should be in place.  There's a reasonable chance it'll be on my boat someday too...

I doubt there will be actual regulation on sonar equipment from DNR's.... However....

 

Most states require tournament organizations to get some type of permit, even for small club events.  We have to do this in MD for our 20ish boat tournaments.  MD DNR also places several stipulations on the tournament permit related to fish care that we have to comply with.  This method allows them to enforce these things on a large percentage of anglers without actually making a law or regulation about it.  Given my experience with MD DNR, it will not surprise me if they eventually put a no-FFS clause into tournament permits, which will be a giant cluster-F.  

[gim]

2 minutes ago, Logan S said:

We have to do this in MD for our 20ish boat tournaments.

That sounds right here too for a tournament permit.  It might be 25, not 20.  I'm not sure but there is a thresh hold.  Under that amount, no permit required.

[Logan S]

19 minutes ago, gimruis said:

I assume you're specifically referring to bass fishing.  The PMTT (Professional Muskie Tournament Trail) which is the highest level of muskie competition fishing in the country banned it. 

Yes, obviously bass tournament.  I heard about the musky thing...No offense to their trail/anglers, but any BFL or similar local tournament trail is probably bigger than the musky thing and there are literally hundreds of them across the country.  It's also not apples to apples, it'd be like trying to apply the same rules to deer hunting as you do to duck hunting.  

[Choporoz]

On 3/23/2024 at 1:40 PM, Team9nine said:

Now Spotlock…that should be banned 😉 along with traffic cones.

No!!!!  Not the cones!! 

You forgot about the essence of the game; it's all about the cones 

[Koz]

9 hours ago, gimruis said:

Bear in mind that this muskie tour isn't nearly as big or elaborate as any pro bass (or even walleye tour).  Sponsors don't pump in thousands of dollars to individual anglers.  In fact, many don't even have sponsors.

 

 

And there you have it.

 

How many FFS units are being sold each month because someone at home watching the event on TV sees Joe Pro Elite Angler catching fish with FFS?

 

That was rhetorical.

 

It's a lot of money. If MLF or BASS threatens to ban FFS the lobbyists from Lowrance, Garmin, and Humminbird will be all over them. These companies pour a lot of money into tournament fishing because they reap the benefits in sales. Threaten that and they will most likely pit one tour against the other and the loser will be out a lot of money, especially in prize purses. 

[gim]

3 minutes ago, Koz said:

If MLF or BASS threatens to ban FFS the lobbyists from Lowrance, Garmin, and Humminbird will be all over them.

No one here has ever stated there should be a full ban, me included.  I only relayed what another pro tour did.  And honestly I think it was more of a knee jerk reaction because one specific team mounted 8 units on their rig during an event.

 

Limitations.  Not a full ban.  We're not going to Mars here, we don't need 14 screens like they have on the space shuttle.

[Tennessee Boy]

Let’s take a look at the Elite Schedule 

 

April  11 - Lowrance Elite at the Harris Chain

May 9 - Minn Kota Elite at Lake Murray

August 15 - Humminbird Elite at St Lawrence River

 

Yeah I don’t think they will be banning anything.

 

[NoFroFishing]

Would be nice. I want to see the pros be pros and use the skills they have learned throughout the years. Show us what truly separates you from the regular joe. I get that FFS takes time to learn but it just doesn't feel the same. 

 

All major sports have more restrictions as you get better and get into the pro leagues. NBA three point line and shot clock, MLB wooden bats, NASCAR engine restrictions, NFL has completely different rules in some aspects, etc etc. I dont get why professional bass fishing is doing the opposite. Other than the pay in of course. 

[KP Duty]

Was on facebook this a.m., and there was an add for the 'Big Bass Bash' on lake of the Ozarks.  $100k for big bass.  One of the very first comments was 'Is FFS allowed?'.  'Yes' was the reply, folliwed by a guy saying he wished they had T's where FFS isn't allowed.  If you aren't an FFS wizard, you are donating your money if you fish this big bass tourney.  

[padon]

On 3/23/2024 at 9:20 AM, Captain Phil said:

Would it make a difference to the average weekend Joe angler?  It's doubtful. 

 

Just now, padon said:

 

thats one of the reasons i havent gotten it. im not sure i have the number of hours  to dedicate to learning it to make it largley benneificial to me.