Lithium Battery Set-up - Need recommendations

[SAL321]

Ok, taking the lithium plunge as I have to replace my lead acid batteries. I have the Lowrance Ghost , 3 graphs , AT and generally don't run live wells and pumps all day. Typical fishing day is 6-8 hours on the weekend. 

 

I'm torn between 2 - 36V-50/60Ah  for the trolling motor or 3- 12V 50Ah ?

 

I will also have the 125+ ah starting battery. I've gone back and forth but would like real world input. If you went one way and could have a do over would ya change anything? 

[gim]

My understanding is that a lithium battery should not be used as a starting battery. Maybe some else can confirm that but from what I’ve read they aren’t designed for it.

[MN Fisher]

3 minutes ago, gimruis said:

My understanding is that a lithium battery should not be used as a starting battery. Maybe some else can confirm that but from what I’ve read they aren’t designed for it.

Some Lithium starting batteries do exist - Dakota has one model that is rated for starting.

 

Thing to check for is if the battery has either a CCA or MCA rating - that'll tell you it's rated for starting as well as deep-cycle use.

[Tennessee Boy]

What size batteries are you replacing and were you happy with their performance?

[HenryPF]

Are you neurotic like me and don't like a possibility of anything ruining your day out?

 

Depending on your trolling motor, a 3 x 50ah setup with a bad battery will not effect your trolling motor, it will compensate and run off of 24.

 

Electronics battery - sure 50ah will work just fine, but do you want to really worry about if you have enough juice at the end of the day cause you didn't want to spend extra $$$ for a bluetooth LiPO that tells you percentages?

 

Worried about being stranded running off your starting battery? $100 jump pack will give you piece of mind.

 

Or you can go crazy like I did and run 3 x 100ah for the trolling, 2 x 100ah for the electronics, 1 x 100ah for the livewell/guages/bilge pump and 1 x group 27agm for the starting battery.

 

My fishing days run anywhere between 5-14 hours on the water per day.

 

For my electronics, I run 2 livescopes and 5 finders all the time - i mirror the livescopes to the dash so the guy in back is not fishing blind either.

 

 

[WRB]

Look at Marine Deep Cycle Lithium Iron Phosphate LiFePo4 batteries. The 3 top rated for bass boats are: Iconic, Dakota and Millertech.

I would contact Iconic customer service and ask them.

Running 3 ea 12V 50 AH is popular when those batteries are on sale. 1 36V 100 AH is also popular but higher cost.

Cranking and battery AGM’s are still popular and 12V 50 AH house battery.

Tom

 

[casts_by_fly]

Three 12v50ah is the same as one 36v 50 ah. So the first option in your trolling motor set above is twice the second. A single 36v 50ah is going to be plenty in a ghost, however you need a charger that can do 36v. If you have the space in the bilge, 3x 12v batteries will make for easier charging. 
 

three graphs plus active target is going to draw about 10 amps.  For an 8 hour day, that’s 80 ah usable, or about 100 ah total capacity for the house battery. 
 

starting battery and bilge/live well can be it’s own battery and a smaller group 24 size lead acid cranking battery. you probably already have this one. 
 

Given the above, I’d just make it easy and get 4 of the same 100 ah 12v batteries if you can. Then they are interchangeable if you have issues and all are the same age/size. It makes charging easy (a two bank and a three bank, though you probably won’t have to charge the starting battery if you are running it at all).  
 

given how much cheap lithiums have come on in recent years, I’d probably pick up a set of the lower priced but highly rated lithiums. There are quite a few in the $250-300 bucket.  For $1k you’ve got your batteries sorted for everything for a long time.

 

[SAL321]

21 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

What size batteries are you replacing and were you happy with their performance?

Just 27 series for the trolling motor. The ghost never seems to run them down regardless of condition. The 31 Series running the electronics. Confident but not entirely trusting it with live well and pumps running. 

 

Expect more out of the starting electronics battery

[Bankc]

Casts by Fly has the right idea.  

As for a starting battery, some LiFePo4 battery manufacturers will publish the max amperage for their battery.  Whether or not a lithium will work for you in this capacity kind of depends on the size of your motor and how many amps it needs.  You'll usually find most 100Ah LiFePo4 batteries with max amp discharges of around 100-200 amps (for short bursts of time), whereas a traditional lead acid starting battery will usually be around 800 amps or more.  But they do make LiFePo4 starting batteries with up around 1000 amps of starting power.  But they're a bit harder to find.  

[Woody B]

On 3/7/2024 at 6:47 PM, SAL321 said:

Just 27 series for the trolling motor

 

Three 12 volt 50 AH's will run the trolling motor longer and faster than 3 lead acid 27's.   

Some outboards don't "support" lithium batteries, including mine but I've been using a 125 ah Ionic for cranking/electronics for over a year.  

 

I can't speak for other brands, but I've been happy with my Ionics.  (two 50's for my 24 volt trolling motor, and 125 cranking)

[Troy85]

On 3/6/2024 at 9:23 PM, casts_by_fly said:

 

given how much cheap lithiums have come on in recent years, I’d probably pick up a set of the lower priced but highly rated lithiums. There are quite a few in the $250-300 bucket.  For $1k you’ve got your batteries sorted for everything for a long time.

 

Is there any real different in the actual product?  Impulse Lithium is charging $830for a 12V-100ah.  I'm looking at this Redodo on Amazon for $250 and a Litime with the same specs for $319, both of which have 4.6 stars. 

[casts_by_fly]

16 minutes ago, Troy85 said:

Is there any real different in the actual product?  Impulse Lithium is charging $830for a 12V-100ah.  I'm looking at this Redodo on Amazon for $250 and a Litime with the same specs for $319, both of which have 4.6 stars. 

 

The best thing you can do it watch some tear down videos for the specific batteries you're interested in.  Some use a BMS, some dont.  I wouldn't have one without.  Some have welded/fused connectors on the cells and some are lightly soldered wire.  Some of the brands have been around a while and still going while some have come and gone.  

 

I bought from Amped 3 years ago when I set my stuff up.  At the time, there was a limited track record for most lithium brands and Amped had a good one.  Also at the time, lithiums were either pretty expensive or super cheap.  I didn't trust super cheap so I went with expensive.  I've not had any problems so I can't complain.  Looking at the costs now, the battery I run (80 AH) is $520 from Amped which is the same price more or less from 3 years ago.  The quality of the cheaper batteries has increased a lot and the average price for lithiums has come down with technology and the market.  

 

TBN did a review of powerqueen batteries 2 weeks ago and rated them highly.  They have a BMS and look to be built well.  And at $239 for 100 AH that's probably where I'd go to buy new.  Even if it lasts half of what my Amped does I can buy a new one after 5 years (when the tech will be better still and prices probably a little lower) and be better off and with more capacity.  I'm also not using it for life support functions.  If something happens when I'm on the water and my trolling motor battery goes kaput, I can hook my fish finder battery up to it and limp home.  Or I can paddle.  I'm not going 10 miles into the ocean where a failure means calling in a mayday.

 

I don't trust Amazon ratings for lots of things so take the 4.6 stars with a grain of salt.  Too easy to 'buy' ratings in various ways.

[Siebert Outdoors]

I'm running close to what you have.  I went with 3 50ah ionics.  If need be i can switch it to 24v and I can use a regular 12v charger.   I also went with a 125ah ionic for all my graphs and accessories.  I do run a lead acid battery for starting because Merc doesnt recommend lithium for my model of 2 stroke.

[Troy85]

@casts_by_fly

Just checked out Power Queen.  Got really good reviews from several different articles.  I may give them a go.  I've wanted to make the switch for a year now, but I just had a hard time paying 900+ dollars for a battery.  Especially since I've never really run into issues with Lead Acid, I've never run out of trolling power during a fishing trip.  The main reason for the switch would be the weight, I can shed about 150lbs switching to Lithium.  I couldn't fully justify it at 900ish a battery, but at 250ish, thats a totally different story.

 

Would you recommend 2 12v or a single 24v?

 

[Bankc]

2 hours ago, Troy85 said:

Is there any real different in the actual product?  Impulse Lithium is charging $830for a 12V-100ah.  I'm looking at this Redodo on Amazon for $250 and a Litime with the same specs for $319, both of which have 4.6 stars. 

The Redodo has a max, short term burst current rating of 300 amps versus the Impulse of 200 amps.  Both have a low temperature cutoff, continuous current of 100 amps, 20 amp recommended charge current (the Impulse is rated at 50 amps max).  So, for the most part they rate pretty similar, outside of the Redodo having a bit higher maximum short term discharge current.  The Redodo also claims to be compatible with up to 16 batteries in a serious/parallel connection at up to 48 volts, while the Impulse just states 4 batteries in either series or parallel.  The Redodo is also listed at 24.85 pounds versus 30 for the Impulse.  Impulse also offers a "platinum series" that has a bluetooth app that can monitor the health of the battery on your phone, which the Redodo does not.  

However, the Impulse has a 10-year, non-prorated warranty and the Redodo just says 5 years.  They don't list if it's prorated or not and it might be more difficult to claim a warranty through given what I'm seeing here.  

 

My guess is the Redodo either has a beefier BMS, or the company is less cautious about the ratings of their BMS.  The Impulse probably has better cells, but they could be the same.  I'm just basing that off price.  You'd have to find a teardown video of each to know for sure.  The Impulse most likely has better customer support and will be more likely to stand behind their product.  Judging from their two websites, I don't get the impression that Redodo has native English speakers working for them.  

[casts_by_fly]

3 hours ago, Troy85 said:

@casts_by_fly

Just checked out Power Queen.  Got really good reviews from several different articles.  I may give them a go.  I've wanted to make the switch for a year now, but I just had a hard time paying 900+ dollars for a battery.  Especially since I've never really run into issues with Lead Acid, I've never run out of trolling power during a fishing trip.  The main reason for the switch would be the weight, I can shed about 150lbs switching to Lithium.  I couldn't fully justify it at 900ish a battery, but at 250ish, thats a totally different story.

 

Would you recommend 2 12v or a single 24v?

 

 

Assuming you can fit them, I'd say two 12's. I say that because if one goes bad or gets damaged you can replace it with one.  Even if you replace both, you still have a 12v battery to use for electronics.  A 24V battery is pretty specific in what you can use it in.  Also makes charging a lot easier.  Two bank 12V and you're good.

[Junger]

My lead acid starting battery just pooped out. I'm going to try out this dual purpose LiFePO4 105AH 800CCA battery from Florida Lithium. The specs look good, they say it complies with Mercury outboards (which is what I have), Group 24, and has bluetooth. My only concern is I have a DualPro Sportsman 4 bank charger that has the lead acid/AGM profile. I've read it may only charge Lithium batteries to 80%, which would be fine for my purposes. But the hatch is accessible where I could charge the battery with a standalone NoCo lithium charger.

 

https://floridalithium.com/products/12v-105ah-dual-purpose-lifep04-battery

[gim]

Just now, Junger said:

My only concern is I have a DualPro Sportsman 4 bank charger that has the lead acid/AGM profile.

 

I've got a Dual Pro charger too and mine specifically states only to be used with lead acid/AGM batteries.  I'd personally go with the Noco charger that's compatible with it, not one that indicates otherwise.

[Tennessee Boy]

The Dual Pro website says the Sportsman Series is compatible with most Lithium batteries.

 

 

[Junger]

I called them with my serial number, mine doesn't have the Li profile and they wouldn't tell me definitely if it would charge a Li battery or not. So basically, I have no idea if the Dual Pro will charge a Li battery partially, fully, or not at all.

 

When my three 100AH AGM's lose capacity, I'll swap them to Li and the onboard charger to a fully Li compatible system. I just need a dual purpose starter right now.

[gim]

6 minutes ago, Tennessee Boy said:

The Dual Pro website says the Sportsman Series is compatible with most Lithium batteries.

 

Slight misunderstanding.  Mine is a Recreation Series and it says right on the actual charger itself what batteries can be used.

[SirWoogie]

On 4/1/2024 at 3:37 PM, Junger said:

My lead acid starting battery just pooped out. I'm going to try out this dual purpose LiFePO4 105AH 800CCA battery from Florida Lithium. The specs look good

 

https://floridalithium.com/products/12v-105ah-dual-purpose-lifep04-battery

Not to bad for the price for an all-purpose. Several other vendors that certify cranking can be much higher (30-50%+ average). It's interesting they are using cylindrical instead of prismatic cells according to their tech sheet. That has advantages and disadvantages. Two main advantages is better voltage regulation particularly when you use in series or parallel configuration, and because there are more cells in a standard battery than prismatic, the loss of a cell is lesser impact than if it was prismatic which is usually 4-6 in a 100Ah 12v battery.

The max current charge seems a bit low considering that they are saying up to 300hp engines which would mean pretty large alternator (100+) but that all depends on how the BMS handles the inrush and you'd need something running WOT for a while to create that condition.

The differentiator then just comes down to warranty, support and longevity of the supplier.

[Junger]

@SirWoogie Yep, the price wasn't awful, considering I didn't have to add a separate starter/house battery for 5 total batteries (3 TM, 1 starter, 1 house). I saved on that, and not having to upgrade from a 4 bank to 5 bank. It was almost a wash, and will pay for itself if it lasts the amount of cycles their claim.

 

FL Lithium guys are really responsive, I've called 4 times to ask questions and they've picked up and chatted with me right away. Their spec sheet says they meet Mercury standards which is what I run. I've only been out twice with it and it started it up fine and I came home with 87% left on it after 6 hours of three Helix 10's running all day. One quirk they helped me figure out was when I initially charged it with a NoCo GenPro10 on Li mode, it would only get to 93% SOC, but they asked me to try on AGM mode and now it'll hit 100% SOC.

 

Here's their warranty info from their site, lifetime but who knows if they'll be around that long. If I get 5 years+ out of it, I'll consider it a win.

 

[quote]Florida Lithium tests and verifies every lithium battery prior to shipping from our DeLand, Florida warehouse. We stand behind the quality and integrity of our batteries, and offer a BEST IN CLASS LIFETIME non-transferable case warranty. In most cases, the cells of a lithium battery are unharmed, but the Battery Management System CAN FAIL. We stand behind our batteries and are proud to offer the only re-furbishing case warranty on the market today. To participate in our warranty program, please complete our warranty registration form.[/quote]