Bass Hunting

[Tennessee Boy]

31 minutes ago, gimruis said:

Mounting 8 graphs and 3 ducers worth $80 grand is excessive.

I agree.  I said in another thread that reasonable limits would be good for the sport.  I think 8 graphs is over the top even though I don’t think it gives a significant advantage over someone that has 4.  

[Susky River Rat]

47 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

Live bait fishing was going to kill all our Muskie on melton hill in 2008

Melton hill is stocked? Musky have very poor reproduction rates and just as bad survival rates the first year. So if they did not stock there wouldn’t be a fishable population there.

 

I would also assume that if man cannot ruin a population of fish by angling that other species of fish shouldn’t either? Blue cats, flat heads, snake heads, etc. 

[gim]

13 minutes ago, Tennessee Boy said:

I agree.  I said in another thread that reasonable limits would be good for the sport.  I think 8 graphs is over the top even though I don’t think it gives a significant advantage over someone that has 4.  

My apologies, I missed that.  Thank you for clarifying your stance.

[TnRiver46]

1 hour ago, Susky River Rat said:

Melton hill is stocked? Musky have very poor reproduction rates and just as bad survival rates the first year. So if they did not stock there wouldn’t be a fishable population there.

 

I would also assume that if man cannot ruin a population of fish by angling that other species of fish shouldn’t either? Blue cats, flat heads, snake heads, etc. 

it was a reintroduction , they weren’t there at all (zero) until maybe 2000-2003 somewhere. It has been quite successful and they even somehow spilled over into watts bar. Watts bar also has some of the native strain that come in from the Emory River but there’s a whole bunch of them right below melton hill dam (that people catch with live skipjack on double hook rigs )

 

melton hill Muskie are completely artificial as it is a tiny lake trapped between two massive lakes separated by big tall concrete dams.
 

There is occasionally a native Muskie caught on Norris (upstream) that comes from the clinch river but it’s rare. Muskie are quite common in melton hill so either the small fish or eggs have spilled over during floods and established a population directly below the dam. This doesn’t really happen directly below norris dam as it rarely spills over the top and it’s 200 feet tall, and they are extremely rare in Norris lake to begin with 

 

in summary they would be in all the water here if they didn’t make dams. They never left the freestone streams, there is even a Cumberland strain subspecies 

[Zcoker]

On 3/5/2024 at 8:51 PM, king fisher said:

    I don't care if they keep it or ban it in tournaments, because I don't fish tournaments.  I don't care if they keep or ban it for recreational anglers in the US because I bass fish in Mexico.  I just want one week fishing on my local big bass lake, using FFS with someone who knows how to use it. If only to see what the lake is truly capable of.  This lake has produced most of my trophy bass.  90% of those bass were caught offshore in 30-40 foot water suspended  in trees. I have been successful blind casting to these suspended bass.  I am sure with just one day of casting to specific targets , I would break my PB more than once.  After that, I could spend my days preaching to others about the virtues of Zen fishing, with only my senses, and instincts to guide me, but I dream of having a few days fishing the dark side of the force.  If I never get my chance to fish my lake with FFS, and some one else eventually does, I will consider every bass they catch, caught by un sportsman like means, and in my mind they will forever be thought of as a cheater.  If I get my chance and catch a new PB utilizing FFS, there will only be lots of pictures of DD bass and big smiles.  For those that would call me a hypocrite, please don't ask me my thoughts on fluorocarbon fishing line. 

 

Also, if anyone with a boat, and FFS. wants to learn the location of my remote, underfished trophy bass lake, come pick me up in PV, I will take you to the lake, let you make the first cast at every new target, and provide lunch for as many days as you want to fish. 

 

Good points, because if folks actually got to use the things, then they might have a very different opinion of them when they catch their DD bass on one. Most go over the top with these back to nature blanket statements, technology this, technology that, but technology is what we all hold in our hands daily when we are out fishing for bass, the rods, the reels, the baits, the watercraft...heck, the actual automobile that got us to our fishing spots! FFS is here and it's here to stay. No tears. Maybe it's an era and will poof away in the world of tournament fishing, maybe so. Only time will tell on that one. In the meantime, it's all cheers for all these young bucks winning these high dollar tournaments. These units have cemented themselves in our sport and will get better and better with detail and precision like no other....yes indeed, we got a new set of eyes in town! 

[12poundbass]

22 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

Crappiescope is what they originally called it and I know you have it 😂

Proctologist around the world made them change the name because they already had it.

[TnRiver46]

[txchaser]

On 3/5/2024 at 9:21 AM, Nitro 882 said:

"I would never have considered fishing in those areas in a hundred years".

This is the coolest part of livescope, learning all this new stuff about bass. In Milliken's bass university seminar he showed a video of fish coming off the bottom in 20ft of water, with 2ft of vis, when his jerkbait landed on the surface. 

 

The least cool part of it is seeing a monster that absolutely refuses to do anything but follow your bait. Well, that's the second least cool. The real one is repeating that all day long. You can see them. You know they are bass. They just aren't in the mood. It's maddening. You're doing "everything right" and they are interested, but there's one little change that you haven't figured out yet. I promise you it's way worse when you can see the fish fiddling with your bait but not eating. Even worse when they come out of a pile or off a tree like they are about to wreck it, and just turn away at the end. 

 

Just IMO, FFS will have a bigger impact on tourneys and guides than anything else. It's not easy to learn how to use it, how to recognize what's happening, how to follow, etc etc. How many anglers do you know with great non-ffs electronics that have never really learned to read the map or use the sidescan? FFS has you trying to notice the return strength and tail separation to see what the dang thing is. It's a really useful tool, but it's a pretty high skill bar to get a massive advantage out of it. As I mentioned elsewhere, perspective mode is a different deal though. I think it's going to be the killer, because it's more like 360 but with live view on fish, and works in shallow water.

 

Catch and immediate release would have more positive impact on tournaments that any other change we could advocate for. Catching these FFS fish isn't wrecking the ecosystem, but putting a big fish in a livewell, dragging the boat 50 miles to stage, etc can't be helping them one bit. Same thing for the spawn - while bed fishing isn't really my thing, catching one and putting her right back is pretty likely low impact. But pulling her off and dropping her five miles away may well end that spawn opportunity for the year. Maybe the male defends the bed enough, maybe not. 

 

Eh, sorry for the wall of text. 

 

 

[PhishLI]

28 minutes ago, txchaser said:

As I mentioned elsewhere, perspective mode is a different deal though. I think it's going to be the killer, because it's more like 360 but with live view on fish, and works in shallow water.

Watching Scott Martin's screen at the Okee Open was something to see. Wow.

29 minutes ago, txchaser said:

Catch and immediate release would have more positive impact on tournaments that any other change we could advocate for.

The rule at the Fork Elite would be just the just-right compromise, especially if the TWP model was followed by all of the state's agencies.

[TnRiver46]

Don’t look now, John cox in second place at lake amistead with 27 lbs and no live sonar 

[Swamp Girl]

1 hour ago, PhishLI said:

Watching Scott Martin's screen at the Okee Open was something to see. Wow.

The rule at the Fork Elite would be just the just-right compromise, especially if the TWP model was followed by all of the state's agencies.

 

I had to Google Fork Elite to know its rules. Catch, weigh, and immediate release would sure protect the big bass genes. 

[TnRiver46]

They still brought in some bass over 24” to weigh in but not a whole bunch. When I was camping at lake for 18 yrs ago a guy told me he was snagging slot fish off beds and eating them. 

[TnRiver46]

15 hours ago, Susky River Rat said:

Melton hill is stocked? Musky have very poor reproduction rates and just as bad survival rates the first year. So if they did not stock there wouldn’t be a fishable population there.

 

I would also assume that if man cannot ruin a population of fish by angling that other species of fish shouldn’t either? Blue cats, flat heads, snake heads, etc. 

Asian carp “ruined” this lake. That was so 2 yrs ago 

[Pat Brown]

I think it was @TnRiver46 who said something like 'no one sells more FFS units than RB' and that's pretty much the long and short of it.

 

He actually seems cool to me and I enjoy watching his old tournaments when he was adapting to new technology and still in the game mentally but you can tell he has a hard time having a sense of humor about his views.  He also has built a brand that pays his bills on a hyper critical and negative persona.  Sort of sad.  I feel bad for the guy.

 

I hope he can maybe focus on educating young anglers on ways they can help make our fisheries better instead of just bad mouthing trendy stuff.  It's not a good look.  I have learned a lot of cool stuff over the years from him and I think he just needs to be a little more humble and maybe step down off the soap box but I can understand that maybe that won't make his sponsors happy and that's an awful spot to be in.

 

I would like to see more research and more limitations in tournaments mainly to make it a level playing field and more sport like and less free for all.

 

On individual fisheries, let them sort it out over time.  Nothing happens overnight and hasty bans are historically dumb.

[TnRiver46]

@Pat Brown, ole RB is sitting in 21st place in that tourney I posted the pic from on KY lake right  now with 16.5 lbs. 

 

Also excellent point on the hasty bans, Kentucky lake is a good case study. They placed some sort of live bait restriction there (you can still fish with but can’t move it I believe) because they said juvenile  Asian carp look too much like threadfin shad. Fast forward a few years and there have been 0 (zero) juvenile Asian carp in Ky lake whatsoever. Maybe a good preemptive measure but also good example they don’t really know what’s going on. They made a rule for something that doesn’t exist based on political pressure, money, and worry 

[Woody B]

I haven't watched a single Randy B video of hardly any videos from anyone else.   It's my belief that most or maybe even all of it is attention seeking behavior.   The more views one gets the more money they make.  (That is how it works isn't it?)    To me it's like professional wrestling.  The quite reserved person who's a good wrestler isn't going to get anywhere.   

 

If Randy (or anyone else) makes a really good video named .........How to catch post frontal Bass (or something useful like that) even if it's full of really good information it will only get a few views.  He makes on ranting about technology that 1/2 the people hate and 1/2 the people love it's going to get a BUNCH of views.   

 

 

[DaubsNU1]

4 minutes ago, Woody B said:

I haven't watched a single Randy B video of hardly any videos from anyone else. It's my belief that most or maybe even all of it is attention seeking behavior. The more views one gets the more money they make.  (That is how it works isn't it?) To me it's like professional wrestling. The quite reserved person who's a good wrestler isn't going to get anywhere.   

 

I like Randy's videos that show techniques and places to fish. Interesting stuff. 

 

And YES, it is attention seeking behavior...because more views = more $$. And I am 100% sure that all those bass fishing videos out there are sharing just enough information to keep you coming back for more...more views = more $$. 

 

If I ever "discovered" a great new bait / technique / method / location...I have two options:

 

#1: find a way to monetize(!)

#2: keep my mouth shut, and keep catching fish (cause if I do #1 and the word gets out...fish will get wise)

 

[Catt]

24 minutes ago, Woody B said:

It's my belief that most or maybe even all of it is attention seeking behavior. 

 

I watch a video where Chris Zaldain interviewed Randy. He admitted the majority of his videos were click bait. I don't remember the number but it was insane the number of videos he does monthly on social media.

[gim]

10 hours ago, txchaser said:

Catch and immediate release would have more positive impact on tournaments that any other change we could advocate for. Catching these FFS fish isn't wrecking the ecosystem, but putting a big fish in a livewell, dragging the boat 50 miles to stage, etc can't be helping them one bit. Same thing for the spawn - while bed fishing isn't really my thing, catching one and putting her right back is pretty likely low impact. But pulling her off and dropping her five miles away may well end that spawn opportunity for the year. Maybe the male defends the bed enough, maybe not. 

I am in agreement with this and many tournament formats have gone to this exclusively.  Not just in the bass realm either.  Walleye, crappie, and muskie tournaments have been catch and immediate release format for years.  I generally don't mind having a live weigh in at certain times of the year when the water is cooler and the fish aren't spawning.  Mortality is probably low to none in those cases.  But in the heat of summer when the water is bath tub warm or in the spring when fish are on beds, the damage is obvious.  All for the ego glorification of holding up a bass on stage.

 

The walleye circuit my parents fish in used to be live weigh in.  The pandemic changed that.  They didn't want people gathering at a central location in close proximity, so they switched to CPR (catch, photo, release).  It was so popular they just continued to do it.

 

[N Florida Mike]

Just to admit how little I know about ffs, I just found out about it in the last month. I watched a guy on  a video catching lots of fish, big ones too, while using ffs. And it was at one of my favorite lakes. He caught more fish there in one day than Ive caught there in years. At first I was excited, but then  it faded. To me , it takes a lot of the challenge out of fishing.

Whats kind of funny is the friend I fish with just got his first depth finder in his life last year. We always did pretty good without it. We haven’t really figured out how to use it to our advantage yet, and now this…

We’re planning a trip in 2 weeks and I promise we will be discussing ffs !!🤣

[Swamp Girl]

2 hours ago, Woody B said:

He makes on ranting about technology that 1/2 the people hate and 1/2 the people love it's going to get a BUNCH of views. 

 

Woody, Randy made a video acknowledging exactly ^this^ and it frustrates him, creating clickbait/controversial content instead of fun-with-fishing content. 

[TnRiver46]

Golly day he did it again. Ky lake doing alright 

[king fisher]

I have said this before, and will say it again.  I completely think RB is wrong about FFS.  I think he is has no logical argument, and is just being  stubborn on the subject.  

 

However I do enjoy many of his videos, and respect his opinion.  I have never heard him give anyone a nick name, call them an idiot, comment on any ones appearance, demeanor or intelligence all of which have been hurled his way.   During a podcast, he wished Ben M. well in his future as a professional fisherman, and complemented him on his skills as and angler.  Ben didn't even have the curtesy to say thankyou or wish him well.

 

He is passionate about his beliefs, and will not change, no matter what the data has to say.  He is making the argument into a religion rather than a science, and I do not agree with that, but like I said before, he does not take his beliefs in to the realm of personnel attacks and I think that is admirable.  I have heard people comment about his appearance, his teeth, his intelligence, his ability as an angler, and his personality in general.  All of which have nothing to do with the electronics argument.

 

I disagree with him, but wish him well, admire him for sticking to his guns, without insulting the people that disagree with him.

 

This controversy over electronics is not going to go away, and some civility by all sides will be required on order to make sound decisions.

 

In the end I feel there is going to be restrictions made by State Fish and Game agencies, and it is not going to be because of professional bass fishing.  Other species are far more vulnerable to the new technology than bass are, and unfortunately bass fishing will become a victim of departments trying to make laws to protect other species.    Lake trout and Musky are two species that may be the cause of restrictions in northern waters, and crappie may be the poster child in the south.

 

I will have to wait for the price to drop significantly, before I buy FFS, but if it does I will be all in. 

[gim]

1 hour ago, king fisher said:

Lake trout and Musky are two species that may be the cause of restrictions in northern waters, and crappie may be the poster child in the south.

 

Honestly I've never really heard of people using live sonar to specifically target lake trout.  They very well could be, but I haven't seen or heard of it.  The people I know who target lake trout in Lake Superior troll for them with down riggers.

 

You may have a point on muskies, but they are not targeted for harvest.  So technology being used there isn't going to be restricted.

 

Crappies are the ones being harvested here, mostly through the ice.  Stricter regulations have already gone through 2 years ago - bag limits were dropped on almost 100 lakes.  There will be more coming too.  Maybe the one saving grace is that ice conditions seems to gradually get worse and ice fishing season seems to be getting shorter; this year it was maybe a month long compared to the usual 4 or more.

 

I don't believe that limiting equipment or technology is the route of resource agencies here.  They'll just respond by lowering bag limits, which they've already done.

 

Tournaments are a completely different topic.

[king fisher]

1 minute ago, gimruis said:

Honestly I've never really heard of people using live sonar to specifically target lake trout.

I watched some recent videos on lake trout fishing, both on open water and through the ice.  FFS is making catching giant lake trout look easy.  Instead of trolling they are locating the fish and jigging for them.  The catches are amazing.  As more anglers catch on, it will have to be addressed in the future.  Trout and salmon are far less structure and cover oriented.  The advancements in electronics will be far more helpful for locating and catching these fish, than for bass.  These species are also not in every pond, river, creek, and lake like bass are, making it easier to do damage to the population.  They would probably be able to manage the fisheries with bag limits, and other traditional means, but public pressure, may persuade departments go down the path of limiting electronics as an easy public friendly fix.