Lake Fork

[Pat Brown]

I think that if MLF changed their format and banned livescope and future electronics they would have a competitive product and their brand would be markedly different from BASS and it would create some interesting competition and some valid outlets for people with issues. But I don't think that MLF is intelligent or going to do that lol

[Tennessee Boy]

The fan base is split.  Some people think they should allow FFS and some think it should be banned.  I expect that the number that think it should be banned will diminish as they get used to it and understand how it affects fishing.  If I was BASS I would make sure that next year’s schedule is built to minimize its usefulness to give people time to calm down.

[Logan S]

FFS makes bass fishing easier.  That's fine, all of the technology we use does too...From 2D to SI/DI to GPS to spotlock and poles...Etc.  FFS showing a live view of fish at great distances and depths is something that many think going over the top.  

 

I think the comparison to sight fishing is funny - Because the biggest argument to that was so many people would say it's 'not sporting'...Since you can see the fish and pick on it enough to get it to bite.  I don't see the FFS techniques that much differently - Except for the fact that FFS isn't limited by a short seasonal window, eyesight-distances, shallow water, and water clarity.  There are even limits in place around sight fishing - Like you can't use ladders to gain a height advantage - And no one really questions that?  I don't understand the smugness of people who are seemingly OK with all of the other limitations like these, but then look down their nose on anyone who asks, "Hey, maybe this FFS stuff is getting to be a little too much?" I think I know the answer deep down, but will hold off on saying it .  

 

From my perspective, there's got to be some limitation put in place soon - Whether it's limiting transducers, screens, or something else.  It's literally the only thing in tournament bass fishing without a limitation.  

 

I am very much in favor of sight fishing and I have FFS on my boat - Anti flame disclaimers  

[JediAmoeba]

13 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

I guess the young kids are just supposed to let the old people win……….

 

 

g man has livescope and has for years , he’s invested. He got a century belt at lake fork last time they were there, think it was 2021. 
 

old guys have never dominated tournaments, live sonar is a convenient excuse

 

i knew Tyler Williams was good but didn’t know he was that good. Congrats to McKinney, he put in the work all offseason while the old guard was busy hunting and complaining 

If livescope wasn't in the event, I believe, 9 out of the 10 top wouldn't be there. Ben Milliken would still be, because he is the most well rounded angler out of the bunch.

[gim]

2 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

Some people think they should allow FFS and some think it should be band.

 

Who thinks it should be banned?  Is there a contingent of fans or anglers here that I'm not aware of?

 

No one here has called for a complete ban.  Literally no one.  There are a number of us here that think there needs to be limitations, however.  That's been well communicated.

[JediAmoeba]

13 hours ago, king fisher said:

  It is called a professional elite series.  To me that means the best anglers, competing with the best equipment in order to win and make the most money in pay outs, and sponsorships.  By limiting the electronic equipment, they would be also limiting sponsorship dollars from the electronic companies.  This sport is not big enough for tournament organizations to turn their backs on major sponsors.  Like it or not the electronic companies want to use the professional circuit to help sell their products to the average angler and for good or bad, that is not going to change.  Loosing sponsorships from one company making the A rig was not going to be a big financial hit.  Also the A Rig had potential of becoming so popular, that other lures would not be used, actually hurting sponsorship dollars in the long run.  Now that the A Rig has been out for awhile the fears, that it would be the only bass lure used has been shown to have simply been paranoia.  Electronics have far more economic impact, and will only become more popular. I hear it all the time, It's all about the money.  Yes it is all about the money, that is why it is called professional bass fishing.  I am a recreational angler and can choose when, where, and what I want to fish with.  If I was being payed, I would have to use my sponsors equipment, fish where the tournaments are being held, and keep up on the latest technology in order to compete.

       I may not agree with how they fish, and the equipment they use, but I also want to see the very best, with the very best equipment, competing at the highest level.  That is what I believed happened at Lake Fork.

So, the PGA should allow any golf ball and all equipment regardless of its ability? Racecar sanctioning bodies shouldn't restrict the cars? Give Mcguire and Bonds back all their accomplishments? Reinstate Lance Armstrong? Should MLB allow metal bats? Allow PED's in all sports because we want to see the best? 

 

There have to be some restrictions - the sport already does it by not allowing certain hulls, your motor has to be so big but not too big. Your rod can't be over 10 feet. You can't use A-Rigs. You can't use live bait. You can only use so many hooks. You can't troll. They already do it. 

 

I don't know where I stand but we are not showcasing something that anyone can learn. A young kid going out and fishing from a john boat without electronics isn't even in the same realm as these guys as far as learning how to compete in fishing. You give a kid a basketball or soccer ball, they have all the tools they need to learn and compete in the sport should it be their desire. 

[TnRiver46]

17 minutes ago, JediAmoeba said:

If livescope wasn't in the event, I believe, 9 out of the 10 top wouldn't be there. Ben Milliken would still be, because he is the most well rounded angler out of the bunch.

I don’t believe that whatsoever , the young guns can catch them no matter what you give them. The old guys have FFs too. 

[Tennessee Boy]

2 hours ago, gimruis said:

 

Who thinks it should be banned?  Is there a contingent of fans or anglers here that I'm not aware of?

 

No one here has called for a complete ban.  Literally no one.  There are a number of us here that think there needs to be limitations, however.  That's been well communicated.

Sorry,  I should have clarified that I meant banned from tournaments.

[JediAmoeba]

8 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

I don’t believe that whatsoever , the young guns can catch them no matter what you give them. The old guys have FFs too. 

The young guys have had it the whole time. They aren't conditioned into a pattern and history at these lakes. All the bug names in the last 20 years are POWER fishermen. They make more casts per hour than these young kids make in a tournament. That's always been their way, present your lure to as many fish as possible to get the most bites. FFS has drastically changed that on these Fisheries and the old dogs are having a hard time adjusting. They have the tools but can't stick to it because of their history. KVD saw what was coming and rightfully bowed out.

 

I saw more backlashes this week than I have ever seen - and you are telling me these young guys can hang power fishing? I don't think so. 

 

To be fair, I don't think it should go away either. But restrictions of some sort should be put in place IMO. This is an outdoor sport full of mystery - technology shouldn't be the all deciding factor.

[Susky River Rat]

The old guys seem very stuck about wanting to fish their way.  Which I get but it’s hurting them. They have FFS but, don’t like it. Their bread and butter was this or that. Point blank if you aren’t scopin all day every day you won’t be in the top ten. Till/if there is a change that’s how it will be. 

[Tennessee Boy]

2 hours ago, JediAmoeba said:

There have to be some restrictions - the sport already does it by not allowing certain hulls, your motor has to be so big but not too big. Your rod can't be over 10 feet. You can't use A-Rigs. You can't use live bait. You can only use so many hooks. You can't troll. They already do it. 

I agree there should be restrictions and there are also laws that they must follow.  Determining what the restrictions should be is the hard part.  Banning the Alabama was a knee jerk reaction IMO.  I agree that live bait should not be allowed.  Trolling is a difficult call.  Now that they don’t have co anglers I would say it should be allowed.  If literally every angler started  trolling in every tournament then I would say ban it again.  
 

Every new technology that comes along requires that you learn new skills and it makes some old skills obsolete.  FFS requires many new skills and makes very few old skills obsolete.  People that don’t have it don’t understand that.  A simplified description of its impact is it allows you to replaces random cast with precision cast.  It replaces luck with skill.  That’s an improvement in my opinion.  I understand not everyone will agree.

[TnRiver46]

Old pros have never dominated fishing tournaments. Other than Jon cox everyone has had the tech for the same amount of time 

[gim]

26 minutes ago, Tennessee Boy said:

Sorry,  I should have clarified that I meant it band from tournaments.

No one is saying it should be completely banned in tournaments either.  Just limitations.

 

I don't think its going to be banned or even limited for recreational fishing.  They'll just lower bag limits instead, which MN has already done here on panfish.

 

Using the alabama rig and trolling is a poor example for comparison because there's 50 states, many with different laws regarding the use them.  One state might allow 8 lines and another might allow 1.  There's no different set of laws for live sonar that I'm aware of from state to state.

[ak6388]

All this talk of young guys just scope, they wouldn’t be there without it etc etc. Yet nobody has even mentioned McKinney snapping a pole pulling a fish out of a dock and boat flipping him on camera. 
 

Yes the game has changed, but to say they’re there just because of scoping is disrespectful. I’m sure there are some that have made it farther because of it, but you don’t just wander your way onto the elite series. All the older guys on live, at weigh in, on social media being crusty and complaining about getting their ass kicked is not a great look. They've had the technology for at least 5-6 years and didn’t utilize it, that’s not the other anglers fault. 

[TnRiver46]

1 minute ago, ak6388 said:

All this talk of young guys just scope, they wouldn’t be there without it etc etc. Yet nobody has even mentioned McKinney snapping a pole pulling a fish out of a dock and boat flipping him on camera. 
 

 

^there is stuff like that every single tournament that all the blaukat disciples conveniently forget about 

[hokiehunter373]

20 hours ago, gimruis said:

Easier said than done. The mind loses its ability to take on complex learning as you age. My old man can’t even operate a smart phone at his age.

 

The old saying goes, “you can’t teach an old dog new tricks” does have some truth to it.

Sure, but they could still try.  Some of them refuse to.  If you're just fishing for fun, I get that, and don't blame ya.  They're fishing for money and victory so it's just stupidity IMO

[gim]

2 minutes ago, hokiehunter373 said:

Sure, but they could still try.  Some of them refuse to.

I agree, if they aren't even trying, that's their own fault.  No excuse for being stubborn.

 

I'll venture to say that some of them have tried, and they are failing because they can't keep up with technology.  Brains get old too, not just bodies.

 

Maybe its time to start a senior BASS tour lol.  Just like the senior PGA.

[king fisher]

4 minutes ago, JediAmoeba said:

So, the PGA should allow any golf ball and all equipment regardless of its ability? Racecar sanctioning bodies shouldn't restrict the cars? Give Mcguire and Bonds back all their accomplishments? Reinstate Lance Armstrong? Should MLB allow metal bats? Allow PED's in all sports because we want to see the best? 

 

There have to be some restrictions - the sport already does it by not allowing certain hulls, your motor has to be so big but not too big. Your rod can't be over 10 feet. You can't use A-Rigs. You can't use live bait. You can only use so many hooks. You can't troll. They already do it. 

 

I don't know where I stand but we are not showcasing something that anyone can learn. A young kid going out and fishing from a john boat without electronics isn't even in the same realm as these guys as far as learning how to compete in fishing. You give a kid a basketball or soccer ball, they have all the tools they need to learn and compete in the sport should it be their desire. 

     You have valid points, and I agree, there are already many limitations in the sport, and for that matter all sports.  The problem I think BASS would have by limiting new electronic  technology is sponsorship dollars.  Professional bass fishing is not a big enough sport to offset huge sponsorship losses by making it up in viewership revenues, that may not even go up if the technology is banned.

     Banning ladders was not going to make a big difference in sponsorship dollars, same with trolling, live bait, or multiple lure baits.  Banning live bait makes competitors have to showcase many different lures, instead of only hooks and sinkers.  Banning trolling would have zero effect in sponsorship dollars, with the exception of maybe loosing out on potential downrigger advertisers.  I don't think Home Depot pulled any sponsorships, when they banned ladders either.

      Electronics is another animal.  These companies have invested millions in developing incredible technology.  While professional bass fishing is not a large sport, recreational angling is one of the largest activities in the US.  The problem is in order to sell very expensive electronics to the average angler, it will take a high degree of marketing through the professional level.  I just don't see BASS having the ability to turn their back on the kind of money that they will benefit in, by keeping the electronic companies happy.

       This would change if BASS membership, significantly goes down, viewership crashes, or worst case scenario, fish populations go down, and state game departments start regulating the electronics allowed.  If this were to happen, then obviously the balance sheet would swing the other way, and BASS would be forced to make changes in the rules.

       The way it is right now, the sponsors are all in, the anglers are having an incredible year, new young competitors are instilling new life in to the sport, and the playing field has remained even.  All of the old timers have the opportunity and the sponsors available to outfit their boats with the very best electronics.  It may take them more time to learn how to become effective with them, than it does younger anglers, but they will learn.  I know if I had enough money to purchase FFS I would probably pull all of my hair out trying to learn how to use it, but I am positive, I eventually would become proficient with the technology and I graduated from a flip phone to a smartphone only a few months ago.  I'm sure any feelings of guilt over it not being fair to the fish, would go away quickly when I reached down to land my new PB I just saw eat my lure on a screen.

      As far as the new young anglers not having less basic fishing skills, that theory is simply not true.  I watched a few of them skip casts under docks and into thick cover far better than I will ever be able to cast.  Are there other pros that are better at fishing the shoreline than they are?  I'm sure there are, but they are a long way away from not having basic bass fishing skills.

      Personally I don't care what they use, because I am not the person competing, and I haven't witnessed any decline in fish populations from the use of the new technology in tournaments.  I believe the only people that should have influence in the matter, are the tournament organizations, and the competitors themselves.  As a fan, I will continue to enjoy the competition, regardless of the rules, as long as they are enforced fairly.  As a recreational angler, I only hope that someday I can buy a FFS unit, for under $100, if not I will continue to work as hard as I can to catch bass with the equipment I have and can afford.

[JediAmoeba]

If BASS wants to start I think the answer is at the High School, College levels and moving up. High Schoolers should only have access to a depth finder. At that level your parents or captain shouldn't be your advantage. College and qualifiers - maybe limit it to 1 at the console, 1 at the bow.

 

15 minutes ago, king fisher said:

     You have valid points, and I agree, there are already many limitations in the sport, and for that matter all sports.  The problem I think BASS would have by limiting new electronic  technology is sponsorship dollars.  Professional bass fishing is not a big enough sport to offset huge sponsorship losses by making it up in viewership revenues, that may not even go up if the technology is banned.

     Banning ladders was not going to make a big difference in sponsorship dollars, same with trolling, live bait, or multiple lure baits.  Banning live bait makes competitors have to showcase many different lures, instead of only hooks and sinkers.  Banning trolling would have zero effect in sponsorship dollars, with the exception of maybe loosing out on potential downrigger advertisers.  I don't think Home Depot pulled any sponsorships, when they banned ladders either.

      Electronics is another animal.  These companies have invested millions in developing incredible technology.  While professional bass fishing is not a large sport, recreational angling is one of the largest activities in the US.  The problem is in order to sell very expensive electronics to the average angler, it will take a high degree of marketing through the professional level.  I just don't see BASS having the ability to turn their back on the kind of money that they will benefit in, by keeping the electronic companies happy.

       This would change if BASS membership, significantly goes down, viewership crashes, or worst case scenario, fish populations go down, and state game departments start regulating the electronics allowed.  If this were to happen, then obviously the balance sheet would swing the other way, and BASS would be forced to make changes in the rules.

       The way it is right now, the sponsors are all in, the anglers are having an incredible year, new young competitors are instilling new life in to the sport, and the playing field has remained even.  All of the old timers have the opportunity and the sponsors available to outfit their boats with the very best electronics.  It may take them more time to learn how to become effective with them, than it does younger anglers, but they will learn.  I know if I had enough money to purchase FFS I would probably pull all of my hair out trying to learn how to use it, but I am positive, I eventually would become proficient with the technology and I graduated from a flip phone to a smartphone only a few months ago.  I'm sure any feelings of guilt over it not being fair to the fish, would go away quickly when I reached down to land my new PB I just saw eat my lure on a screen.

      As far as the new young anglers not having less basic fishing skills, that theory is simply not true.  I watched a few of them skip casts under docks and into thick cover far better than I will ever be able to cast.  Are there other pros that are better at fishing the shoreline than they are?  I'm sure there are, but they are a long way away from not having basic bass fishing skills.

      Personally I don't care what they use, because I am not the person competing, and I haven't witnessed any decline in fish populations from the use of the new technology in tournaments.  I believe the only people that should have influence in the matter, are the tournament organizations, and the competitors themselves.  As a fan, I will continue to enjoy the competition, regardless of the rules, as long as they are enforced fairly.  As a recreational angler, I only hope that someday I can buy a FFS unit, for under $100, if not I will continue to work as hard as I can to catch bass with the equipment I have and can afford.

We already see it at the club level - we had a guy win our club in his 2nd year ever of fishing just by utilizing FFS. Since then everyone has it and if you don't, you're gonna lose. In the last 2 years just about every single club tournament has been dominated by FFS. 

 

Makes fishing as a co a PITA.

[Susky River Rat]

Those pros are using FFS to skip docks. Why wouldn’t you? 

[TnRiver46]

Trey McKinney won lots of championships pre FFS, he’s been dominant since like 7th grade. He would probably lap the field in a cane pole cricket tournament. Limit whatever you want he will still beat you and there will be some new excuse. Whoever wins fishing tourney has always been accused of cheating since the very first tournament,  now it’s a new scapegoat of the electronics and youth. 
 

Jordan Lee won a bassmaster classic at a young age without an outboard engine , could it be that some people are just good at catching bass ?? Kvd won a lot of tourneys as a youngster 

[Susky River Rat]

I could personally careless who wins. I am not taking away anything from any pro angler.  It’s like using a drone to find deer you just have to get close enough to shoot it. You see the fish you see how I acts you just have to get it to bite. Which I am not saying is easy. It does take the intuition out of it as many have said.  

[casts_by_fly]

55 minutes ago, gimruis said:

Maybe its time to start a senior BASS tour lol.  Just like the senior PGA.

 

I think that's called the opens now...

[Catt]

29 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

Trey McKinney won lots of championships pre FFS, he’s been dominant since like 7th grade.

 

Exactly 💯 

 

What's being forgotten about these youngsters is us old timers here & on other social media, along with all the Pros...WE TAUGHT EM!

[Team9nine]

This response from Rick Pierce of Bass Cat Boats has been shared elsewhere. I’ve seen him post similar previously:

 

Changes will be coming in 2025 for those Tour pros. The level of change is not yet fully known, though Bassmaster did indicate to the Elite anglers at Toledo that it was eminent. They will be addressing crappie brakes, units, heights, transducers and more in the coming season. They also gave firm guidelines on use of Crappie Brakes in 2024. The genie is out of the bottle, though they will be stuffing some aspects in a new coffin.

BCB