Yamaha unveils first prototype hydrogen outboard

[slonezp]

Pretty cool stuff.

 

https://newatlas.com/marine/yamahas-hydrogen-outboard-boat-prototype/

[Darren.]

Very cool tech, and sweet looks, too.

[MN Fisher]

And like pure battery powered vehicles - generating the electricity needed to split water molecules to get the hydrogen to power this thing will put more pollution in the air than just running a high-efficiency gas engine.

 

These new non-emission technologies would be great - if we could just get the no-nukes crowd to back off so we can build more nuke-plants....THEN we'd have the non-pollution generation power to make it worth-while.

[slonezp]

15 minutes ago, MN Fisher said:

And like pure battery powered vehicles - generating the electricity needed to split water molecules to get the hydrogen to power this thing will put more pollution in the air than just running a high-efficiency gas engine.

 

These new non-emission technologies would be great - if we could just get the no-nukes crowd to back off so we can build more nuke-plants....THEN we'd have the non-pollution generation power to make it worth-while.

You thinking putting a nuclear reactor in the hull of a 20' bass boat?

[TnRiver46]

Where’s the hydrogen pump located at the gas station? 

[A-Jay]

 

 

Oh the humanity.

A-Jay

[slonezp]

2 hours ago, MN Fisher said:

And like pure battery powered vehicles - generating the electricity needed to split water molecules to get the hydrogen to power this thing will put more pollution in the air than just running a high-efficiency gas engine.

 

These new non-emission technologies would be great - if we could just get the no-nukes crowd to back off so we can build more nuke-plants....THEN we'd have the non-pollution generation power to make it worth-while.

 

1 hour ago, TnRiver46 said:

Where’s the hydrogen pump located at the gas station? 

Global warming aside.

Advancements in mechanical technology are what I'm suggesting here. This innovation could eventually lead to a hydrogen generator (which already exists) to be compact and low cost to be installed in a boat. The boat could create fuel on demand.

46 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

 

 

Oh the humanity.

A-Jay

A "Hold my beer" moment

[MN Fisher]

5 minutes ago, slonezp said:

This innovation could eventually lead to a hydrogen generator (which already exists) to be compact and low cost to be installed in a boat. The boat could create fuel on demand.

What powers the generator?

(TANSTAAFL)

[cyclops2]

Excellent post Super User.   👍

[slonezp]

9 minutes ago, MN Fisher said:

What powers the generator?

(TANSTAAFL)

Not sure what that is. 

12vdc? Maybe a single cylinder gas engine? If 5 gal of gas can create hydrogen power, for a V8 motor, at a fraction of the amount it would cost to create gasoline power. And, I'm just speculating.

 

An educated estimate on boat MPG, is 2-4MPG. What if you could raise it to 20MPG using a hydrogen generator?

[MN Fisher]

5 minutes ago, slonezp said:

Not sure what that is. 

There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch - ergo, 2nd Law of Thermodynamics rears it's ugly head, and you're not going to get more out of a system than you put in...less in fact. Inefficiencies in generating the hydrogen, then burning it as fuel means you'll end up with a net negative result over just burning the gas as fuel.

[TnRiver46]

I always thought a motor that ran on urine would be great, I never run out 

 

if someone gets rich off this idea, they owe me 2 beers 

[slonezp]

17 minutes ago, MN Fisher said:

There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch - ergo, 2nd Law of Thermodynamics rears it's ugly head, and you're not going to get more out of a system than you put in...less in fact. Inefficiencies in generating the hydrogen, then burning it as fuel means you'll end up with a net negative result over just burning the gas as fuel.

We're talking about 2 systems working in synch. While I have zero experience in the fossil fuel and hydrogen industries, I have experience in refrigeration. Cascade refrigeration uses one refrigeration circuit to make a second refrigeration circuit operate in a way it couldn't have, were it not for the first circuit. 

My thoughts are What about an on demand hydrogen generator?  What if one could build a hydrogen generator, that works on FF? For *** and giggles. A hydrogen powered outboard with a fuel supply only limited by the on demand generator? Most average sized pleasure and fishing boats, with outboards, get 2-4MPG at cruising speed. Let's say you have a 25' center console fishing boat with a 100gal fuel tank. You currently get 300 miles on a full tank of good ol' gasoline. What if you can get 400 or 500 or 600 miles or more from the same 100 gallons of FF if you were using hydrogen?

12 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

I always thought a motor that ran on urine would be great, I never run out 

 

if someone gets rich off this idea, they owe me 2 beers 

Radiators work on urine not motors

A redneck version

 

[TnRiver46]

Not yet anyway…..

[Susky River Rat]

I think all this just comes down to we are moving where most of the environmental impact happens. The end result sure sounds great on paper but, the way to get there might not be any better. We are always going to be doing something to hurt the environment period. Right now all the care is zero emissions. Doesn’t matter what we ruin or how dangerous some of it is to get to that point.

[slonezp]

3 hours ago, Susky River Rat said:

I think all this just comes down to we are moving where most of the environmental impact happens. The end result sure sounds great on paper but, the way to get there might not be any better. We are always going to be doing something to hurt the environment period. Right now all the care is zero emissions. Doesn’t matter what we ruin or how dangerous some of it is to get to that point.

Man is a parasite, the earth is our host, and fossil fuels will always be at the forefront of everything in our lives, no matter how badly certain individuals want to squash that. 

[gim]

Being that it’s brand new technology, it’s obviously in pretty raw form. I could see it developing into something more plausible though.

 

I personally think the ultimate energy source is saltwater. There is an almost endless supply of it on earth. Capturing the power of saltwater for energy seems like a pipe dream right now but you never know.

[islandbass]

19 hours ago, slonezp said:

You thinking putting a nuclear reactor in the hull of a 20' bass boat?

Didn’t that work in back to the future,😂?

 

This is engineering beyond me but if there were some way able to get the hydrogen from the water instead of storing it in tanks, that would be amazing. 

[MN Fisher]

28 minutes ago, islandbass said:

This is engineering beyond me but if there were some way able to get the hydrogen from the water instead of storing it in tanks, that would be amazing. 

That's how hydrogen is produced now. Make a volume of water slightly acidic, run a current through it, and it splits the molecule into hydrogen and oxygen - collect the hydrogen and voila.

 

Getting on the water would need some type of generator to produce the electricity.

 

But you have to compress it - the 2024 Toyota Mirai is a hydrogen powered car that holds 5kg in it's tanks giving it a 400 mile range. Uncompressed, that 5kg would take up 212 cubic feet of space...so they compress it so it'll fit in the car

https://www.toyota.com/mirai/

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/06/13/fill-hydrogen-car-home-bond-villain/

[islandbass]

@MN Fisher: Thanks for the response information. 👍😎

[Functional]

back in the early part of my career I had to research and install a hydrogen generator in one of our power plants. There is a hydrogen blanket around certain parts in a power generation turbine and its near impossible to get a 100% seal so instead of having as a maintenance item we installed a hydrogen generator that trickled hydrogen back into the system.

 

Anyway....on the plant tour of the hydrogen facility there were a lot of promising things but it does take quite a bit of power consumption (at the time). However, if I remember correctly they were able to pull moisture from the air to transfer into hydrogen but it was a SLOW refuel process meant for secluded/remoter self serve refile stations. 

 

That was probably 10-12 years ago so I'm sure tech has advanced. I'm not sure its quite there for sole fuel source but if they did a hybrid like the natural gas / fossil fuel trucks that are "common" now it would go a long way to increasing mileage for the engines. 

 

All that said, I agree that we are just replacing one environmental impact for another. Similar to back in the day when we had paper grocery bags and everyone cried save the trees and we got plastic bags. Now everyone is screaming save the oceans and land fills and we have re-useable and paper back.

 

From the classes and experience I've had in the power industry the lease impactful in my opinion is Hydro. You get some impact from fish but that is mostly manageable. Wind, solar, Nuke (although I love nuke) all have some fairly nasty biproducts. IF we could find a good use for spent nuke fuel cells that would be the ticket.

[Gera]

On 2/17/2024 at 4:32 PM, MN Fisher said:

And like pure battery powered vehicles - generating the electricity needed to split water molecules to get the hydrogen to power this thing will put more pollution in the air than just running a high-efficiency gas engine.

 

These new non-emission technologies would be great - if we could just get the no-nukes crowd to back off so we can build more nuke-plants....THEN we'd have the non-pollution generation power to make it worth-while.

I'm sorry but you may be confusing the technology, Hydrogen engines only produce water as a residue, they are zero-emissions.

 

The biggest downside of these cleaner technologies is were to refuel and since there is no demand, its expensive to operate. But their use will greatly benefit the places were you live and fish. 

[MN Fisher]

23 minutes ago, Gera said:

I'm sorry but you may be confusing the technology, Hydrogen engines only produce water as a residue, they are zero-emissions.

I know burning hydrogen produces water - I'm talking about getting the hydrogen split from oxygen in the first place so that you can burn it...pre-fueling production, not post fueling usage. Just like generating electricity for the battery vehicles, producing the hydrogen for use in these motors is where the pollution happens.

 

Until we have mass energy production that's clean (nuke, wind, solar, etc), these 'feel good' technologies aren't going to help the pollution problem overall - just make the consumer feel like they're making a difference cause they're not directly contributing to the pollution problem...but they fail to realize that indirectly, they are still.

[slowworm]

6 hours ago, MN Fisher said:

Until we have mass energy production that's clean (nuke, wind, solar, etc), these 'feel good' technologies aren't going to help the pollution problem overall - just make the consumer feel like they're making a difference cause they're not directly contributing to the pollution problem...but they fail to realize that indirectly, they are still.

 

Entropy is a harsh mistress. AKA The 2nd law of thermodynamics is a *****.

 

 

 

[MN Fisher]

9 minutes ago, slowworm said:

Entropy is a harsh mistress. AKA The 2nd law of thermodynamics is a *****.

Ya - I mentioned the 2nd Law earlier in the thread