Geary feeling in Metanium MGL B but only when spool is in

[Larry Lunker]

I bought a used 2020 Metanium MGL B 151XG a few weeks ago and it had a somewhat geary feeling to it when reeling it without line.  I broke it all down, cleaned out the gunk, put new grease on gears and other moving parts, oiled the bearings, and put it all back together but it still has the geary feeling.  When I remove the spool, however, the feeling/humming sound isn't there.  So it must have something to do with the spool shaft or some component of spool.  Any ideas as to what the problem could be?  Could this be a bearing issue?

[Larry Lunker]

Bearing on spool shaft facing the handle does look a little dingy and so does the bearing under the pinion gear.  I have 91% isopropyl alcohol - is that good to use to soak the bearings?  Would be grateful for any flushing tips/instructions as I've never flushed bearings before.

[JediAmoeba]

Check that the spool shaft isn't bent. I have seen this be a problem. It could also be the bearings are not seated correctly that support the spool shaft or the spacers that are on the end of the spool shaft are not in place. 

 

I would look at those first 

[Larry Lunker]

Thanks, JediAmoeba - spool shaft looks as straight as can be and the black rubber o-rings seems to be in their designed spots.  Are the o-rings the spacers that you're referring to?

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Alcohol isn’t the most effective solvent for bearings. Acetone is effective and safe. Naphtha works well but precautions should be taken regarding contact and fumes. Deep cleaning of all bearings followed by spin testing is your next move. Don’t ignore the AR clutch. The root cause may or may not be directly related to the spool. Inserting the spool puts a level of load on bearings and gears. 

[Bigbox99]

Common issue on these is the pinion support bearings.  

[Larry Lunker]

UPDATE: I just broke the reel down again and removed the handle-side spool bearing's cover on both sides and soaked it in alcohol for about 40 mins. Ended up getting it very clean (wasn't all that dirty after all), but it didn't spin too impressively with a spin test after letting it dry for a bit.  I did the same for the bearing supporting the pinion and the bearing found just under the spool tension knob.  Those two bearings however seemed to be completely sealed however, meaning no retainers/covers to pop out to expose the ball bearings.  Is that accurate or is my eyesight going?  Regardless, I also soaked those two in 91% alcohol, as-is, for 30 mins or so.  Put everything back together, popped in the spool and I'm still getting that geary feeling...  Due to the spin test being underwhelming on all of bearings, particularly the one on spool shaft, is next step just replacing the bearing(s)?  All or just the spool bearing?  Any recommendations on replacement bearings for the Metanium MGL B (151 XG)?

[T2DM]

Brand new reels need a "break in" period. I would've just use it as is and see how it fish. Never open a Shimano reel under warranty, send it in within the warranty period if something is wrong.

 

[Larry Lunker]

Just now, T2DM said:

Brand new reels need a "break in" period. I would've just use it as is and see how it fish. Never open a Shimano reel under warranty, send it in within the warranty period if something is wrong.

 

Appreciate the input although I kicked off this thread by stating I bought it used sight-unseen, in "excellent condition" per the vendor.  Saved nearly $200 but kind of kicking myself now.  But if a $50 bearing replacement kit solves it I still win

[dodgeguy]

2 hours ago, Larry Lunker said:

Appreciate the input although I kicked off this thread by stating I bought it used sight-unseen, in "excellent condition" per the vendor.  Saved nearly $200 but kind of kicking myself now.  But if a $50 bearing replacement kit solves it I still win

And your labor is worth nothing ?

[iabass8]

Putting spool into reel puts a load on the gears and bearings. Being a metanium, I would guess it’s gears or the lower pinion bearing. I wouldn’t bother flushing and attempting to clean frame bearings. Just replace them with a quality SS. Both Spool bearings though need to be flushed(correctly) and oiled with a small single drop of oil. Stock shimano bearings spin forever cleaned and dry. 

[Larry Lunker]

55 minutes ago, dodgeguy said:

And your labor is worth nothing ?

Always willing to put in a little work to save myself some money! I sort of find cleaning reels to be fun... cathartic to an extent.  

[newapti5]

3 hours ago, Larry Lunker said:

Appreciate the input although I kicked off this thread by stating I bought it used sight-unseen, in "excellent condition" per the vendor.  Saved nearly $200 but kind of kicking myself now.  But if a $50 bearing replacement kit solves it I still win

 

I would say it's around $20 to change ALL the bearings inside, except the AR bearing.  If you have a budget of $50, you could change the bearings AND the gears. The gear set from Shimano official site or Plat is about $35 TYD.

[Larry Lunker]

17 minutes ago, newapti5 said:

 

I would say it's around $20 to change ALL the bearings inside, except the AR bearing.  If you have a budget of $50, you could change the bearings AND the gears. The gear set from Shimano official site or Plat is about $35 TYD.

thanks man, having a hell of a time trying to find the proper replacements for the bearings.  Could you drop me a link to particular set that would gel with the 151 XG model?  I'm also checking out the Plat site but can't tell if the gears are brass or not.  Definitely want brass

[T2DM]

5 hours ago, Larry Lunker said:

Appreciate the input although I kicked off this thread by stating I bought it used sight-unseen, in "excellent condition" per the vendor.  Saved nearly $200 but kind of kicking myself now.  But if a $50 bearing replacement kit solves it I still win

My apologies, I completely missed that it was a used reel. My experience with Shimano reels 2 out of 10 are they get "Raspy" after few times of using them specially when water get in those X-ship bearings then gets smooth after a while after a few drops of Bantam oil. Then the first thing that would give is the X-ship bearing (BNT3927), there is another one with the same part number for the handle shaft (located above the AR clutch bearing), typically I would just swap those two bearings when I hear the "Geary" noise with good result. If not, then I typically just replace the two (BNT3927 and one (BNT4194) just to be sure and instantly the "Geary" noise just disappears.

 

I don't own any XG but I've heard that they're typically "GEARY" than HG and 6.x gear ratio.

 

 

[T2DM]

2 hours ago, Larry Lunker said:

thanks man, having a hell of a time trying to find the proper replacements for the bearings.  Could you drop me a link to particular set that would gel with the 151 XG model?  I'm also checking out the Plat site but can't tell if the gears are brass or not.  Definitely want brass

If you decided to order the bearings directly from Shimano then here are the part numbers:

 

10EX8 – Shimano US Fish Shop
$4.33 x2 (BNT3927) spool side X-ship bearing x1.
                                handle shaft bearing x1. 

 

105BP – Shimano US Fish Shop
$4.33 x1 (BNT4194) handle side X-ship bearing.

 

10S37 – Shimano US Fish Shop
$7.14 x1 (BNT5806) palm side spool bearing.

 

1005D – Shimano US Fish Shop
$6.19 x1 (BNT5804) handle side pool bearing.

 

I think the only Metanium that has the aluminum gears are the Shallow Edition and the new Metanium DC. (plus, the older ones).

 

[MidwestBassAttack]

Had this happen to me on a Curado K years back. Broke it down, cleaned, relubed, reassembled three times over and was stumped. Then I took a close look at the spool itself and notice a small dent in the side of the spool rim. New spool, problem solved!

[PhishLI]

4 hours ago, iabass8 said:

I would guess it’s gears or the lower pinion bearing.

X2^^

13 hours ago, Larry Lunker said:

oiled the bearings

The pinion bearing needs grease.  Use a magnifying glass or a loupe and you'll find a circlip holding down the shields. Pull one and you can clean then grease the bearing if it isn't shot. Pinion bearings on the frame side are fragile. Even on Daiwas.

[Larry Lunker]

1 hour ago, T2DM said:

If you decided to order the bearings directly from Shimano then here are the part numbers:

 

10EX8 – Shimano US Fish Shop
$4.33 x2 (BNT3927) spool side X-ship bearing x1.
                                handle shaft bearing x1. 

 

105BP – Shimano US Fish Shop
$4.33 x1 (BNT4194) handle side X-ship bearing.

 

10S37 – Shimano US Fish Shop
$7.14 x1 (BNT5806) palm side spool bearing.

 

1005D – Shimano US Fish Shop
$6.19 x1 (BNT5804) handle side pool bearing.

 

I think the only Metanium that has the aluminum gears are the Shallow Edition and the new Metanium DC. (plus, the older ones).

 

Thanks so much for laying that all out for me. You’re the man

[T2DM]

12 hours ago, Larry Lunker said:

Thanks so much for laying that all out for me. You’re the man

You are very welcome. Goodluck.

[newapti5]

Just now, Larry Lunker said:

thanks man, having a hell of a time trying to find the proper replacements for the bearings.  Could you drop me a link to particular set that would gel with the 151 XG model?  I'm also checking out the Plat site but can't tell if the gears are brass or not.  Definitely want brass

 

As others has pointed out, factory genuine bearings from Shimano are great quality, but they usually cost about $8 a piece. The alternative is to get some good quality bearings for about $1-2 a piece. 

 

You could get great quality bearings for key places, like the two spool bearings (3x10x4 and 5x11x4), the pinion bearings (8x12x3.5 and 5x9x3 I think), and the main shaft bearings (8x12x3.5 and 5x9x3 again I think). You might want to measure their sizes for certain, but these 6 bearings are the ones you should consider changing to quality stainless steel, NOT ceramic hybrid, bearings if you want the winding feel to be as smooth as possible. 

 

The four handle knob bearings and the one in the level wind are 4x7x2.5, and they won't affect the smoothness much as long as they are not rustic. I think ABEC-3 level would suffice. 

 

And if winding smoothness is your goal, pack them bearings with light grease instead of oil, except the two spool bearings, which should be lubricated with light oil only.

[Larry Lunker]

FINAL UPDATE: I'm compelled to share the final verdict to help others with same issue down the road... I replaced the main gear and pinion with a new set and it's back to buttery smooth again.  Had nothing to do with bearings apparently.  New gears fixed the "geary" feeling...who would've thunk it!  Thanks to all