Kayaks and Livescope - Done Deal

[KYKBassing]

What water depths are you guys typically fishing?  I've been contemplating the same purchase.

 

I'm  fishing the Mississippi river, pools 7 & 8, but in the backwaters.  I usually fish in 4-5' of water and anchor with a micro Power pole, makes it easier to stand and pick apart weed edges & pads.

 

I'm wondering how effective Livescope is in those depth ranges, using any of the modes.  Just from what I've researched, the landscape mode is good for finding structure, but doesn't necessarily give the same feedback to fish location/reaction as the other modes.

 

I think I've successfully beaten the Kayak Monkey and convinced myself Livescope isn't worth the investment for my style of kayak fishing, but I don't want to tempt him.

[Bankc]

I don't tournament fish, and I'm not rich.  So I don't own a livescope.  I also fully believe they are cheating and morally wrong... until I can afford one.  Then I'll happily change my mind, because they look like they'd be pretty awesome!  

 

Though honestly, if I was tournament fishing, I think it would depend on when those tournaments are happening.  Like in winter or the dead of summer, I don't think you'd stand a chance without one.  When the bass go deep and suspend and don't want to bite, being able to see where they are and what they react to is HUGE.  But during the spring and fall, I don't think it would matter much.  I'm either fishing shallow or fishing deep structure where the fish are relating to the bottom and more predictable in their behavior.  So I don't think it would do me much good in those circumstances.  

 

Sure, it's one more data point to help you make decisions.  But sometimes too much information is a bad thing.  You could easily find yourself chasing after a fish that wants to chase, but not commit, when without it, you'd just pass by, not knowing what was happening, and move more quickly onto more active fish.  So it could easily hurt your chances under the right conditions.  Then again, with enough experience, you'd probably learn what is and isn't worth your time.  

 

So if I was serious about kayak tournament fishing, I'd definitely get an FFS.  But if I was just doing it for fun and the tournament was in the spring, early summer, or fall, I'd probably hold off and save my money, as I doubt it would make enough of a difference to pay for itself.  

[casts_by_fly]

24 minutes ago, KYKBassing said:

What water depths are you guys typically fishing?  I've been contemplating the same purchase.

 

I'm  fishing the Mississippi river, pools 7 & 8, but in the backwaters.  I usually fish in 4-5' of water and anchor with a micro Power pole, makes it easier to stand and pick apart weed edges & pads.

 

I'm wondering how effective Livescope is in those depth ranges, using any of the modes.  Just from what I've researched, the landscape mode is good for finding structure, but doesn't necessarily give the same feedback to fish location/reaction as the other modes.

 

I think I've successfully beaten the Kayak Monkey and convinced myself Livescope isn't worth the investment for my style of kayak fishing, but I don't want to tempt him.

 

0-20' for me generically speaking.  I've never really learned how to fish deep water but its something I'd like to learn and on my list for maybe this year.  Ordinarily I'm a down the bank type angler.  10' is about where livescope starts to give a big enough field and be useful I think.  Maybe more, maybe less, but that's a decent guide for me.  Most of the time when I'm using it while 'just fishing' I have it turned 45 degrees to the bank so I can see what's there before I get there.  I'll be fishing perpendicular to the bank but live imaging is looking ahead for me.  If I see a fish I'll stop the boat and fish for that fish specifically but that's not the norm.

 

[Gera]

18 hours ago, Koz said:

I'm not complaining about the money, just pointing out that it's yet another investment (Kayak Monkey?). By the time I total up the kayak, electronics, trailer, and equipment I'm thinking that maybe I should have just bought a Tracker boat instead! (Not really, I do enjoy the kayak life).

you could have yes, but a Tracker boat without livescope. 

[gim]

On 2/15/2024 at 11:44 AM, FryDog62 said:

I wonder if that includes her trailer as well. OTW trailers can run another $3-5k.  I went the cheaper route but still spent $1k for a freeway-grade trailer....

What are those big cylinder looking things mounted to the trailer? Torpedo tubes? Fire at will!

[Koz]

On 2/15/2024 at 10:26 AM, Fishingmickey said:

Hi Koz,

     I've been doing the Kayak tournament thing for awhile.  This will be my 10th season.  I have been running Live scope for about three years now. I shopped around pretty hard. I got my first LVS 32 unit from Tackle Warehouse using the gift card that you can buy at 10% off.  Nobody has or had any sales on Live Scope at the time.  I have upgraded the head twice and LVS transducer once (32 to 34) since. I went with the 93 SV originally, then 93 SV UHD and now I have the 943XSV.  They discontinued that unit and it was on sale from West Marine.

     I've found the GPS store to be a good source for Garmin as well.  If you want to chew the fat about it sometime, pm me your number and we can cuss and discuss.

Fishingmickey

 

 

How big a difference was it going from the 32 to the 34 transducer? Was it incremental or was it WOW?

[casts_by_fly]

5 hours ago, gimruis said:

What are those big cylinder looking things mounted to the trailer? Torpedo tubes? Fire at will!

Rod tubes. 

[Jeremy S]

I’m probably not terribly far behind Kristine on kayak cost (probably past her actually since I also set my wife up with one) and I also have no illusions about ever leaving my day job or the massive paycut I’d take to be a “professional fisherman”…..

 

That said, I run FFS on my PA14 and have a Garmin 106sv dedicated to it. I honestly don’t think it was a huge game changer for me. I’ve been fishing for a long time and the only thing that I saw as a massive improvement was side imaging because it let me eliminate unproductive water faster. 
 

FFS has actually done the opposite for me. If I find them, I KNOW they are there and I’ll waste twice the amount of time trying to make uninterested fish but something that I would have spent seeing them on sonar, casting what’s feed at the moment, and moving on. 
 

While I won’t get rid of it as maybe one day, I’ll learn to move on quicker, it definitely isn’t make or break for me. Side imagine is what I feel I can’t live without, especially tournament fishing new bodies of water. 

[Fishingmickey]

On 2/16/2024 at 7:32 PM, Koz said:

 

How big a difference was it going from the 32 to the 34 transducer? Was it incremental or was it WOW?

It wasn't total "wow" it is an improvment over the LVS32. The "ghost tree" is pretty much gone and I feel I get a cleaner return on the screen and that helps me find my lure easier on a longer cast.

 

What Jeremy S. has in his post above is 100% spot on too.  It is very easy to get screen fixated and your trying to catch fish that don't want to eat.  Side imaging is so nice for finding those brush piles, rock piles, road and creek beds.  You can cover a heck of a swath of water with your side imaging.  Even going 50' each side gives you a 100' swath.

FM

 

[Koz]

After seeing a lot of comparison articles and videos, most people seem to prefer Garmin. But I will probably pass on the Garmin simply due to the cost.

 

Right now, the Humminbird Mega Live is discounted $500 through 3/31/24 bringing the cost down to "only" $999 while Garmin Livescope+ is $1,699.

 

My Humminbird Helix 7 does not support Livescope, so I'll opt for a compatible Helix 9 or Helix 10. There's good news there as well because Humminbird has a $500 rebate on those through 3/31/24.

 

FWIW, the original Lowrance Active Target is also $999 and Active Target 2 is $1,699.

 

So if I'm going to invest in FFS, saving $1,000 is a pretty big incentive. Plus, I still need to invest in a pole mount and that's at least another $300.

 

I also need to figure out where to put the head unit. One thing that I don't like about my Autopilot is that the tracks are pretty far forward. That can be tough on my aging eyesight. With my Seastream pedal drive I could mount the head unit right next to my seat. So I'll probably start off with the head unit on the rail of my Autopilot, but I may end up fabricating or buying a center console bar.

[TnRiver46]

@Koz, the opinion exists that hummingbird’s live sonar is decidedly the worst of the 3. I don’t personally know but it’s out there 

[casts_by_fly]

22 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

@Koz, the opinion exists that hummingbird’s live sonar is decidedly the worst of the 3. I don’t personally know but it’s out there 

 

I would probably agree with that having watched videos of garmin and lowrance live imaging and having used mega live myself.  Mega live is a generation behind, maybe 2 depending how you count them.  While Humminbird invested in 360, the others were on live imaging.  The new LVS34 imaging that I've seen is incredible for sure.  There is no way I can get that on mega live.  That said, its still quite good and eminently useful.  If you're already in the Humminbird ecosystem then I would stay there.  The side and down imaging on humminbird is better than the others by about as much as the live imaging on the others is better.  And, HBird offers 360 if you want it in the future.  In Koz's specific case, you could make the argument that if you're buying a new head unit to go with live imaging that you might as well buy whichever since you're not locked into a legacy brand.  That's true.  I was in his same position exactly 1 year ago.  If live imaging was the priority, then I would have gone with an LVS34.  For me, I prioritized side imaging, my existing mapping (from a zero lines card), my familiarity with HBird, and the slightly more boat friendliness in the autopilot (there are some issues with other brands that don't seem to be there with HBird).  To do it again would I do the same?  Maybe?

[Born 2 fish]

I don’t have a kayak but I run all Humminbird except for FFS that’s a garmin 1222 and LVS 34 and I would definitely go with the Lvs34 over the 32. If you’d spending the money you might as well get the best there is. The 34 is about 30-40 percent better than the 32. 

I would definitely go with the Lvs34 over the 32. If you’d spending the money you might as well get the best there is. The 34 is about 30-40 percent better than the 32. 

I would definitely go with the Lvs34 over the 32. If you’d spending the money you might as well get the best there is. The 34 is about 30-40 percent better than the 32. 

[BayouSlide]

3 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

@Koz, the opinion exists that hummingbird’s live sonar is decidedly the worst of the 3. I don’t personally know but it’s out there 

 

Yea, Mega Live doesn't get the love for sure. But the previous poster shouldn't feel FOMO for picking Mega Live, it's a no brainer to run an integrated HB One Boat Network if you're running Birds/MK. One less black box is another advantage.

 

I've been running both Mega 360 and Mega Live and they do everything I need to do and Mega Live never fails to impress me with it's imaging and fish locating abilities. You don't have to be a tournament angler to make better use of your fishing time to fish only where you have seen fish.

[Koz]

11 hours ago, casts_by_fly said:

 

I would probably agree with that having watched videos of garmin and lowrance live imaging and having used mega live myself.  Mega live is a generation behind, maybe 2 depending how you count them.  While Humminbird invested in 360, the others were on live imaging.  The new LVS34 imaging that I've seen is incredible for sure.  There is no way I can get that on mega live.  That said, its still quite good and eminently useful.  If you're already in the Humminbird ecosystem then I would stay there.  The side and down imaging on humminbird is better than the others by about as much as the live imaging on the others is better.  And, HBird offers 360 if you want it in the future.  In Koz's specific case, you could make the argument that if you're buying a new head unit to go with live imaging that you might as well buy whichever since you're not locked into a legacy brand.  That's true.  I was in his same position exactly 1 year ago.  If live imaging was the priority, then I would have gone with an LVS34.  For me, I prioritized side imaging, my existing mapping (from a zero lines card), my familiarity with HBird, and the slightly more boat friendliness in the autopilot (there are some issues with other brands that don't seem to be there with HBird).  To do it again would I do the same?  Maybe?

I found a package deal with the LVS 34, a 93sv head unit, and a 52ah Lifepo battery for just under $2,800 that might be an option.

 

But my old eyes might be better of with a 10 inch unit.

 

This is also the game I play when it comes to big purchases. I talk it out and think it out for a while rather than make an impulsive buy.

[immortl]

14 hours ago, Koz said:

I found a package deal with the LVS 34, a 93sv head unit, and a 52ah Lifepo battery for just under $2,800 that might be an option.

 

But my old eyes might be better of with a 10 inch unit.

 

This is also the game I play when it comes to big purchases. I talk it out and think it out for a while rather than make an impulsive buy.

My getting to be old eyes appreciate the 10" unit and wish I went for the 12" unit.  For looking down while standing, I'm considering a 16" unit but that likely won't happen this year, maybe next year.

[casts_by_fly]

16 hours ago, Koz said:

I found a package deal with the LVS 34, a 93sv head unit, and a 52ah Lifepo battery for just under $2,800 that might be an option.

 

But my old eyes might be better of with a 10 inch unit.

 

This is also the game I play when it comes to big purchases. I talk it out and think it out for a while rather than make an impulsive buy.

 

Unless you're putting it on a center bar, getting up past 9" starts to get big for a rail mount.  I know I wouldn't want a 12" on the rail both for weight and for getting in my way of casting.  The 9" is still pretty big in that regard at certain casting angles.

[Koz]

21 hours ago, casts_by_fly said:

 

Unless you're putting it on a center bar, getting up past 9" starts to get big for a rail mount.  I know I wouldn't want a 12" on the rail both for weight and for getting in my way of casting.  The 9" is still pretty big in that regard at certain casting angles.

That's what I'm deciding on right now.

 

I was looking at putting in a center bar console, but since I mostly sit and fish I worry that the head unit will be too high and interfere with fishing.

 

Yesterday I sketched out some plans for a u-shaped console that would have tabs that bolt to the rails and then the console would drop in the cockpit close to the deck. This way you could angle the head unit bracket towards the seat when sitting, then tilt it upward if you are standing and fishing.

 

Initially I could build it out of wood for just a few bucks. If I find that it works well I could pay someone to fabricate an aluminum one for me.

[Koz]

After much research and hand wringing I bought a Garmin Livescope Plus bundle that also includes an Echomap UHD 93 GN+ head unit and the GT54UHD transducer. I also purchased the Fishing Specialties mount with the LVS34 multi view system.

 

For now I'll rail mount the head unit and stow my Helix 7. I may build a center console mount if I don't like it on the rail. Who knows, maybe I'll end up ditching the GT54 transducer and then mounting both the Garmin and the Helix 7 on a center console.

 

Anyway - that's it. After this I'm done spending more money on my kayak. Well, until they come up with species identification sonar units 😀

[TnRiver46]

Longer trailers are def easier, I learned on a lawn tractor with a tiny short wagon when I was a kid, that thing was all over the place haha

 

now that you can back your trailer into the water, you get to experience a whole new set of problems with corrosion. Still better than toting a heavy kayak tho 

[Fishingmickey]

On 2/22/2024 at 6:42 PM, Koz said:

I found a package deal with the LVS 34, a 93sv head unit, and a 52ah Lifepo battery for just under $2,800 that might be an option.

 

But my old eyes might be better of with a 10 inch unit.

 

This is also the game I play when it comes to big purchases. I talk it out and think it out for a while rather than make an impulsive buy.

You might take a look at this deal Koz, You'd have enough left over for a battery easy.

https://www.thegpsstore.com/Marine-Electronics/GPS-Fishfinders/Garmin-ECHOMAP-UHD-93sv-GN-GT54UHD-and-LiveScope-Plus-Bundle

FM

[FryDog62]

14 hours ago, Koz said:

After much research and hand wringing I bought a Garmin Livescope Plus bundle that also includes an Echomap UHD 93 GN+ head unit and the GT54UHD transducer. I also purchased the Fishing Specialties mount with the LVS34 multi view system.

 

For now I'll rail mount the head unit and stow my Helix 7. I may build a center console mount if I don't like it on the rail. Who knows, maybe I'll end up ditching the GT54 transducer and then mounting both the Garmin and the Helix 7 on a center console.

 

Anyway - that's it. After this I'm done spending more money on my kayak. Well, until they come up with species identification sonar units 😀

Good for you, I think you went the right way with Livescope+ over MegaLive. 
 

I will be curious how you like side imaging with the GT54. I got a GT52 with my 93x last year and it did not pick up the rock piles I’m used to seeing on my Helix 7. That’s why I did the center mount and kept both units.

[Koz]

2 hours ago, Fishingmickey said:

You might take a look at this deal Koz, You'd have enough left over for a battery easy.

https://www.thegpsstore.com/Marine-Electronics/GPS-Fishfinders/Garmin-ECHOMAP-UHD-93sv-GN-GT54UHD-and-LiveScope-Plus-Bundle

FM

That’s exactly what I just bought from them. But thanks for being kind enough to do some research.

2 hours ago, FryDog62 said:

That’s why I did the center mount and kept both units.

That’s exactly my thinking and why I’m going to hold on to the Helix for a little while longer.

 

The good news is that the electronics and mounting pole will all be here by Thursday.

 

The bad news is that it’s supposed to rain Friday, Saturday, and Sunday and I don’t have a garage and I don’t think my kayak will fit in the big shed to work on it.

[FryDog62]

17 hours ago, Koz said:

That’s exactly what I just bought from them. But thanks for being kind enough to do some research.

That’s exactly my thinking and why I’m going to hold on to the Helix for a little while longer.

 

The good news is that the electronics and mounting pole will all be here by Thursday.

 

The bad news is that it’s supposed to rain Friday, Saturday, and Sunday and I don’t have a garage and I don’t think my kayak will fit in the big shed to work on it.

Murphy’s Law on the weather but you’ll get there. 
 

Glad you’re keeping your Helix just in case. I had mine up for sale and a couple interested buyers when I realized the GT52 just wasn’t as good. That’s when I made the center bar and kept them both. Won’t know til you get on the water with the GT54, but I’m really interested in your input on this. Thx 

[Fishingmickey]

2 hours ago, Koz said:

That’s exactly what I just bought from them. But thanks for being kind enough to do some research.

 

I didn't read your post thoroughly. I missed that you had already pulled the trigger.

FM