Interesting Find

[TOXIC]

I just put up a post in the Fishing Reports forum on our recent trip to Headwaters Reservoir.  Something to note, this body of water is being managed as a trophy bass lake.  For Largemouth Bass it’s 100% catch and release.  There’s good crappie and other panfish.  There were 3 boats of us bass fishing and we would normally all go to a general area, then spread out and if one of the boats gets on a pattern or a good location, they would call the other 2 and we would work the area.  Our normal run was at least 30 to 45 minutes from the ramp.  What’s my point you ask?  Since this is a trophy managed lake there are no tournaments other than a few kayak events and twice a year a bass boat tournament with catch measure and release rules.  Another note to mention is that there is only 1 ramp on the lake.  One day we were a loooong ways from the ramp and one of our party called us and said, “You’re not gonna believe this, but I just found a fish basket!” He didn’t recognize it at first and thought it was trash so he was going to pick it up.  When he did, it came apart and he saw 3 large bass swim out of it.  Then, not 10 minutes later we stumbled on another basket that was empty.  The guy who found the first basket gps marked the spot and informed FWC (he himself is in law enforcement).  We were trying to figure out what purpose these baskets would serve since there aren’t regular tournaments.  The baskets were far enough from the ramp that I don’t think anybody in a kayak could get there and back in a day.  With only 2 annual bass boat tournaments, I can’t see it being a viable strategy to cage bass for a month or more waiting on the next tournament.  So far the biggest complaints about the lake have been pushy guides who feel they own the lake and get nasty when they claim spots for their shiner fishing and those who are now putting out feeding marker stakes for shiners where they bait with bagged food and then net the shiners for sale.  They are not supposed to spit out stakes.  Some get around the no stake rule by wrapping floresent tape around some reeds.  That’s all beside the point, what I’m asking is what you feel the cages accomplish? Pics are of the piece my buddy was able to get out of the lake and the basket we found that was intact. 

[casts_by_fly]

Looking at the lake on google maps, it looks like it’s only 4 miles from the ramp to the bottom of the lake. Not sure where you were if if I have that right, but 4 miles in a kayak is no biggie. I’ll do that in about a 1 hour run. If you have a brushless high power motor on the back that’s a 40 minute run. 

[flyfisher]

Nor surprising at all, espcially for a kayak type tournament as they are notorious for cheating and it being difficult to prove.  

As far as distance goes, there is a lake I fish where it is about 9 miles one way to get to where i like to fish and only one ramp.  Used to be a pain when I wasn't motorized but now i just sit back and cruise out there and fish along the way if I feel the need.

[Bird]

So putting bass in a cage and then into a live well is actually happening 😳.

I've seen videos of Bass being shoved full of lead weights but not heard of temporary captivity.

Bass tournaments are becoming something of deceit.

[A-Jay]

17 hours ago, Bird said:

So putting bass in a cage and then into a live well is actually happening 😳.

I've seen videos of Bass being shoved full of lead weights but not heard of temporary captivity.

Bass tournaments are becoming something of deceit.

It will make you even sadder,

but look up Mike Long "Snagger extraordinaire".

A-Jay

 

[gim]

My Grandpa twice found sacks of live walleyes when he was on Mille Lacs many years ago. There always used to be a specific slot size for walleyes you could weigh in and bringing a limit of “keeper” sized fish was a sure way to place.

 

He wasn’t actually in the tournament at the time so he took all the fish out of the sack, placed them in his own livewell, kept them, cut the line attached to the anchor, and left.

 

Nowadays most walleye tournaments are immediate catch, photo, and release format.

[RipzLipz]

18 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

Mike Long "Snagger extraordinaire".

Slimeball of the highest order.

[Fishin Dad]

Wow!   Sad to see.  I have suspected this happening before as well.  I was always hoping I was wrong.  I can’t believe people want to win this way.  Shows the direction we are going. Pray hard. 

[Mobasser]

It's a shame people resort to this.

[GreenPig]

You sure it was a cage and not a fish trap? Either way somebody needs to be slapped around a bit.

[TOXIC]

48 minutes ago, GreenPig said:

You sure it was a cage and not a fish trap? Either way somebody needs to be slapped around a bit.

Not for bass.  There was no “funnel” type entry.  It was a closed basket.  The one we found looked like it had been dislodged and beat up.  For those that don’t know, putting fish in a basket to be retrieved on tournament day has been going on for a long time.  The spot we found this basket was a good 35 to 40 minutes of running a 250hp at less than full throttle but more than what I think a yak could cover.  Maps of the lake are very deceiving because most of the maps look like fields of grass.  We were down the S canal across the 45, through square lake and past the flooded orchard and the pump station. 

[TnRiver46]

Unrelated question: How does it take 45 minutes to run a 4 mile lake ? 

[Kirtley Howe]

It has been going on ever since tournaments started. Ray Scott was so upset by this type of action that he would permanently ban a fisherman from competition for that type of thing.

[Zcoker]

Always look next door when highlighting Headwaters as wonderful fishery. Look over the levee at the Stickmarsh, which was once just as idyllic as Headwaters is now. Stickmarsh is now a mud hole. Hopefully it’ll never happen to Headwates but from what I’m seeing and hearing, it’s getting pretty darn chaotic out there, just like it did years ago at Stickmarsh. Jammed pack with hundreds of boats. Thousands upon thousands of shiners sucked dry daily for profits. Tournements left and right from boats and kayaks. 

 

And don’t think for one minute that any area in that impoundment is off limits to a motorized fishing kayak. I’ve transversed that whole place with still juice to spare in mine. 

 

Now on to the baskets. They’re obviously staged for cheating. There’s been a lot of cheating going on in these CPR bass tournaments. Staged bass like that can be used very effectively. Just the other day I was unloading and saw a guy launching a Prowler with 3 Home Depot buckets loaded with live shiners along with humming aeration pumps. He had his tournement ID tag in plain view. Must’ve slipped his mind lol Live bait is strictly forbidden in most all CPR tournaments but they still figure out ways to use them. Other stuff they do just blows my mind, like cutting off a fish’s tail to extend the length of other fish. Or using taped up batteries to put underneath a fish to prop it up, pull it in, shortening its length. That way, the same fish can be used twice for scoring! Or bending boards to do the same thing. Crazy stuff they come up with. We all saw the lead weight debacle. Or the Mike Long snagging videos. Yep, some folks will wrack their brains to cheat. Caged bass=cheating, plain and simple, imho. 

[TOXIC]

12 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

Unrelated question: How does it take 45 minutes to run a 4 mile lake ? 

Headwaters is a 10,000 acre lake with a 25mph speed limit.  It’s also not a straight shot to anywhere on the lake.  The longest is from the ramp to the first cut.  @Zcoker not doubting you one bit and I think you have the most experience but in the 2 times we have been on the lake for a week straight each time, we have seen plenty of kayaks but never any through square lake and Egan back to where we found the baskets.  

[Zcoker]

1 minute ago, TOXIC said:

Headwaters is a 10,000 acre lake with a 25mph speed limit.  It’s also not a straight shot to anywhere on the lake.  The longest is from the ramp to the first cut.  @Zcoker not doubting you one bit and I think you have the most experience but in the 2 times we have been on the lake for a week straight each time, we have seen plenty of kayaks but never any through square lake and Egan back to where we found the baskets.  

 

I'm not saying that the baskets your found are strictly for kayaks alone, only that it's possible because kayaks do go out there. The baskets could be for anyone on that lake, kayaks or boats. I've heard of the same type of holding baskets found on lake Okeechobee. Heck, they might be everywhere, for all I know. The more we expose them, the more chances we have of keeping them honest....We're on to you, so watch out! 

[casts_by_fly]

Wouldn't fish in a basket become gator food pretty quickly down in florida?  I know when I used to hold fish in a mesh net bag at scout camp (to get mesured the next day) the turtles and snakes were all over them.  I ended up catching a 4'+ water snake with a bluegill in its gut.  It made it into the net and couldnt' get back out with the bluegill in there.  Then turtles ripped the other net apart.

[Zcoker]

17 minutes ago, casts_by_fly said:

Wouldn't fish in a basket become gator food pretty quickly down in florida?  I know when I used to hold fish in a mesh net bag at scout camp (to get mesured the next day) the turtles and snakes were all over them.  I ended up catching a 4'+ water snake with a bluegill in its gut.  It made it into the net and couldnt' get back out with the bluegill in there.  Then turtles ripped the other net apart.

 

Not really. Most of those contraptions are made from stiff galvanized wire mesh. If the gators get interested, they usually shy after the first nudge. Now, when stringing individual bass up to a stump or a tree for a later date, that may be a different story. 

[TOXIC]

@casts_by_fly you could be right and that would explain why the basket we found was so smashed up.  The baskets were plastic mesh also. 

 

 Here’s my problems with what could arguably be the best bass lake in the country.  First, the guides have reportedly been getting more and more aggressive with tourists and other fishermen.  Claiming “spots” as their own.  I’ve heard reports of law enforcement being called because of firearms being pulled.  Personal note we have never run into this problem in the 2 weeks we have spent on the lake.  Second, the guides all go to the same spots and I personally read a report from a guide who caught a largemouth with 3 circle hooks in its mouth.  Lake rule is that if you shiner fish, you must use circle hooks.   It finally hit me this trip that the guides are recycling a lot of the same fish.  Look at it this way, if a bass gets caught on Monday with live bait, gets released and then sees another live bait Tuesday, is he/she gonna eat it? Sure they are.  While they may get conditioned to artificials, they will never turn down live bait and in their peanut brains, they’re getting fed in the process assuming they get the shiner.  Finally, the rules on netting shiners have been updated and the FWC survey taker at the ramp told us that while netting is allowed, bait poles are not and we personally witnessed a shiner netter with bags of hog feed on his deck, launch to go net shiners that he will eventually sell to the local tackle shop and then they get retailed for $25-30 a dozen.  Some guides go through astonishing amounts of shiners in a day.  Third, plain crowds.  When you get people from all over the country coming to a very crowded and small launch, there are a lot of incidents of just plain bad launch etiquette, this we have encountered. It gets even more testy when one of the launch lanes gets socked in from floating vegetation and everyone has to launch and retrieve from just 1 ramp lane.  I have parked in the overflow grass field across from the launch a few times to avoid the crowd and possibly damaged trailer from inexperienced boaters.  I will say we have been very comfortable out on the water and not being pressured by crowds.  Finally, if your not a tourist and booked with a guide for a day trip and you are like us where we go for a week straight, lodging is a real issue.  I’m not keen on staying in a hotel off interstate 95. It’s only a matter of time before the hotels popular with boaters start experiencing thefts and vandalism.  It’s unavoidable.  The last 2 years we have stayed in a set of 4 rooms on Blue Cypress lake.  They are in the middle of nowhere and are very secure even though parking is an issue and it’s a fairly long drive to Headwaters from there.  Next year I found a studio apartment on a horse farm 2 miles from the access road.  Gated, totally secure and close.  I can see lodging being an issue for fishermen in the future.  At this point, the pluses outweigh the minuses so we will continue to go all the while keeping my finger on the pulse of what’s going on. Pics of launch line and remote parking.  

[Bankc]

A wise man once said:

"If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying."

 

Another wise man once said:

"You can't blame a guy for trying."

 

Therefore, we can safely conclude:

"You can't blame a guy for cheating."

 

Unless you get caught.  In which case, you will get blamed for cheating.  And possibly arrested if there's money involved.  

[Zcoker]

Pretty much summed it up @TOXIC Glad your trips are drama free save for a few hiccups. Shiners are very popular there because many of those trips hook into a 8-10 pounders. "Trophy" is the word out there, is why so many flock there and hire shiner charters. Fish of a lifetime. More and more guys are jumping on the charter bandwagon because so many people are booking trips with the hope of catching a fish of a lifetime. And shiners are doing just that. Most boats sell out for months. When a guy with free time with a boat sees the money that can be made, it's all in! It's almost akin to the gold rush days. Netting continues on the lake, same with stake-out poles. Kenansville is a BIG source for shiners. The poles are all over the place out there. Some of those charter guys have airboats. They launch at Stickmarsh and then jump the levee at Kenansville, net up a bunch of shiners and then come back to the Headwaters area to either sell them or use them. So they're not only depleting Headwaters, they're wiping them clean from Kenansville as well. Only a ten minute run from the Stickmarsh airboat launch and a levee jump to get into Kenansville. Shiners are BIG out there and, as their own name implies, are like GOLD on that lake! The hysteria and draw will only continue....just like it did in the good 'ol Stickmarsh days. 

[gim]

This thread is downright disturbing, and sickening.

 

If I found out someone was cheating like that I'd have some words with them.  I don't know how someone with a reasonable conscious can live with themselves if they're doing this in competition.

[RipzLipz]

@Zcoker Just imagine what it would be like if all those canals were still open for non-airboats to run between Kenansville, Blue Cypress, Stick Marsh, Garcia & HW.

 

Wonder why they don’t put a limit on number of shiner guides through some sort of licensing? Anyone with a brain should understand it’s not just catch & release that maintains a good fishery, especially in FL. I guess the tourism money speaks loudest.

 

Could the cages be poachers looking to stock other waters with larger bass or for consumption? Catch during the day & come back at night on airboat possibly? I know when we used to camp over at Middleton’s 20-25 years ago we’d hear airboats running through the night.

[Zcoker]

1 hour ago, RipzLipz said:

@Zcoker Just imagine what it would be like if all those canals were still open for non-airboats to run between Kenansville, Blue Cypress, Stick Marsh, Garcia & HW.

 

Wonder why they don’t put a limit on number of shiner guides through some sort of licensing? Anyone with a brain should understand it’s not just catch & release that maintains a good fishery, especially in FL. I guess the tourism money speaks loudest.

 

Could the cages be poachers looking to stock other waters with larger bass or for consumption? Catch during the day & come back at night on airboat possibly? I know when we used to camp over at Middleton’s 20-25 years ago we’d hear airboats running through the night.

 

I really can't say what the whole intention was, other than to create an artificial playground full of trophy bass. I mean, the FWC here in Florida was quite aware what they were doing. When they were first making that place, they carved it out, some of the workers carving out big words of their own name "John", another that spelled out "FLA", playing around with the machinery and having a good 'ol time before they flooded it. 

 

 

I've often wondered myself just how many shiners can be taken from these small confined places without totally disrupting the chain of life for the bass. I'd like to think that the same thing happened next door at the Stickmash. That place was fished out, literally. From experience, you'd think with this new place (Headwaters) that the FWC would impose stricter guidelines other than a 25mph speed limit and a sunrise to sunset time frame. Catch and release is about all they did afterwards. I reckon they did the best they could. Perhaps, later, with the diminishing baitfish population, they may in fact come to terms with the biological impacts and enact stricter guidelines for that. When these places get really crowded and off-the-wall, bad things can happen which get the attention of the authorities, thus ruining it for everyone. That's pretty much how it happens down here in Florida. Hopefully it doesn't come to that. Hopefully folks remain responsible. Hopefully! 

 

As far as those cages go, my guess is most likely for bass, held there only to be retrieved later on for CPR tournaments. Only reason I say that is because I've seen them many places before, same sorta thing. Poachers would just take the fish and then split. Besides, Headwaters is closed at night and there's no airboats allowed. So anything going on happens in daylight. There's not a large presence of FWC officers patrolling that place, so if someone wants to get away with something, they pretty much can. 

 

 

 

[Swamp Girl]

Creepy cheats.