Help with new boat battery setup...would you set it up like this?

[clemsondds]

 

Can everyone share their thoughts on this potential setup? This is for a 23' skeeter bay boat that's mostly used for bass fishing.
1. Cranking Battery to run 250SHO : Duracell Ultra Group 31 AGM 12V 125ah. I have to run an AGM (non-lithium) for crank battery since Yamaha says it will void warranty. I don't see the added value to risk a fight by running a lithium crank. Yes it would be nice...but not worth the hassle to me.
2. House Battery: 12V 100aH deep cycle lithium - need to run three graphs (2 12" garmin gps and one 16" garmin gps) - heard some recommend 16V...has anyone seen substantial difference in quality with livescope on 16 vs 12?
3. Trolling Motor-36v garmin kraken: 3 12V 50ah or two 36V 40ah. weight and cost is substantially more with two 36v but longer power. thoughts?
4. Charger: Minn Kota 550PCL 5 bank charger (if I go with 3 12v tm batteries)
I need advice on this setup and also which of these batteries I should connect my 2 10' raptors, livescope plus, GT8, GT56, GMS, GPS, bilge, and aerators to. We beach our boat sometimes and will use the raptors to hold us (at ocean so tide is always coming in/out). The raptors have active anchoring which I would like to leave on so that it can keep us in place. In the past I had powerpoles and turned all the batteries off when we were beached since I was worried I would have a dead battery after hours of kids playing on the beach. So now I'll be running lithiums...I'm hoping to run the raptors on them and not worry about running out of juice and still stay put. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated? I don't know much about electronics/batteries so leaning on you guys for help. Thanks again!

[CaptMikeStarrett]

Interesting that the raptors use battery when down. My Talon can be down all day and not drain the battery in tidal waters. This is good info. I was advised to put all scopes and network on a single battery. Starter battery is for Talons. And two agm for trolling motor.

 

Capt Mike

[clemsondds]

1 hour ago, CaptMikeStarrett said:

Interesting that the raptors use battery when down. My Talon can be down all day and not drain the battery in tidal waters. This is good info. I was advised to put all scopes and network on a single battery. Starter battery is for Talons. And two agm for trolling motor.

 

Capt Mike

Thanks! And I’m not sure about the raptors but just assume that since they are “active” then I assume they draw battery. My old power poles just were put down and then I turned off the battery since they don’t move again.  I probably should contact minn kota and ask them.  
I do like the idea of the lithiums having Bluetooth so I can monitor levels. Anyone know if any agm  batteries have the Bluetooth capability? Thanks again everyone! Any other thoughts? 

[Tennessee Boy]

Your setup looks sound in my opinion.   I agree,  don’t question Yamaha’s specs for the cranking battery.  I would put all of the electronics on the house battery and all other accessories on the cranking battery.  It’s a tough call on the trolling motor batteries.  It depends so much on how you fish and the conditions you fish in.  Also,  is it a big deal to you if your batteries die after many hours of fishing in unusually tough conditions?  If you’re fishing with the kids it’s not as big a deal as if you’re fishing the Bassmaster Classic.  😁 Remember lithium batteries shut down when they reach a specified level of discharge so the trolling motor is dead at that point.

[clemsondds]

23 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

Your setup looks sound in my opinion.   I agree,  don’t question Yamaha’s specs for the cranking battery.  I would put all of the electronics on the house battery and all other accessories on the cranking battery.  It’s a tough call on the trolling motor batteries.  It depends so much on how you fish and the conditions you fish in.  Also,  is it a big deal to you if your batteries die after many hours of fishing in unusually tough conditions?  If you’re fishing with the kids it’s not as big a deal as if you’re fishing the Bassmaster Classic.  😁 Remember lithium batteries shut down when they reach a specified level of discharge so the trolling motor is dead at that point.

Thanks TB. I'll prob go with the 36V single for the tm. And then have the 12v house and 12v starting. That way there's back up for cranking and saves space with one vs 3 batteries.  Still haven't decided completely.  Any suggests from anyone on a charging system?   Anyone have experience with the minn kota 5 bank? thanks

[Tennessee Boy]

I thought you were considering two 36 volt trolling motor batteries.  If you go with one be sure to check it’s maximum output current against the maximum current draw of the trolling motor.  It might be an issue.

[gim]

On 1/7/2024 at 8:28 AM, clemsondds said:

My old power poles just were put down and then I turned off the battery since they don’t move again.

Power poles don't run directly off batteries.  They are powered by hydraulics and pumps (obviously the pump needs battery power though).

 

Minnkota makes a quick-connect for the talons if you so choose to go that route if you think the battery is still drawing power even when its not being used.  Or if you have a main power switch, just turn that off.

 

My talon goes to my cranking battery.  The talon has 3 settings: normal, rough water, and soft bottom.  If you put it on soft bottom, it will not continue to try and "dig" into the bottom while engaged.  The other two modes will.

[GaryH]

6 hours ago, clemsondds said:

Thanks TB. I'll prob go with the 36V single for the tm. And then have the 12v house and 12v starting. That way there's back up for cranking and saves space with one vs 3 batteries.  Still haven't decided completely.  Any suggests from anyone on a charging system?   Anyone have experience with the minn kota 5 bank? thanks

I run the Minn Kota precision but if you’re going with 5 bank you can’t run a 36v battery. You’ll need a separate charger for the 36 volt. You’ll need a 2 bank for your starting and house batteries and a single 36 V for the TM. I run all Ionic lithiums. 3 for TM and 1 for starting and house on my Skeeter with a 250 sho. No issues at all going on 3 years. 

[clemsondds]

8 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

I thought you were considering two 36 volt trolling motor batteries.  If you go with one be sure to check it’s maximum output current against the maximum current draw of the trolling motor.  It might be an issue.

Good point. I'll check that out. Thanks

4 hours ago, GaryH said:

I run the Minn Kota precision but if you’re going with 5 bank you can’t run a 36v battery. You’ll need a separate charger for the 36 volt. You’ll need a 2 bank for your starting and house batteries and a single 36 V for the TM. I run all Ionic lithiums. 3 for TM and 1 for starting and house on my Skeeter with a 250 sho. No issues at all going on 3 years. 

Oh yeh, totally forgot about that.  Maybe I'll just go with the three 12v units then.   My local Skeeter dealer said they won't even work on a skeeter that has a lithium powering the motor. crazy 

[GaryH]

11 hours ago, clemsondds said:

Good point. I'll check that out. Thanks

Oh yeh, totally forgot about that.  Maybe I'll just go with the three 12v units then.   My local Skeeter dealer said they won't even work on a skeeter that has a lithium powering the motor. crazy 

That’s odd. My Skeeter dealer installed mine. Ionic has Yamaha and Mercury approval to use on their motors. 

[clemsondds]

1 minute ago, GaryH said:

That’s odd. My Skeeter dealer installed mine. Ionic has Yamaha and Mercury approval to use on their motors. 

That's interesting! I'll call around and ask.  A few weeks ago when I was first looking into this, I called Yamaha corporate, skeeter corporate, and multiple dealers and everyone said the same thing...can not have a lithium connected to the motor or it voids any warranty associated with the motor.

[Woody B]

They can't void the warranty due to a lithium battery.  You're protected by the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act.   IF (big if) they can prove the battery caused damage they can not cover that damage.    Some lithium batteries will shut off due to high charging voltage from Yamaha engines.   This would cause your engine to instantly shut off.  This is what Yamaha is looking to prevent.   A quality battery,  (like Ionic) will have a BMS that will control the charging voltage, but not shut the battery off.   I've had an "unsupported by Mercury" Ionic lithium cranking battery for my 50 horse over a year now.   

 

Graphs only need 12 volts to operate on.   IF someone is getting better images ect using 16 volts the extra voltage is covering up faulty wiring.   With good wiring the extra voltage just caused extra heat due to the internal voltage regulator.   Don't fall for the snake oil of 16 volts for graphs.  16 volt batteries have their place in the racing world.  They're not needed in marine sonar applications.  

 

 

Disclaimer: I'm an automotive technician.  I have 3 Ionic lithium batteries in my boat.   

[clemsondds]

Oh I get it...but I just don't want to deal with the hassle.  My closest dealer said they won't even work on it if it has a lithium connected.... I've tried to get it corrected and even got in contact with the regional skeeter rep and he said the same thing...

If there was a major advantage...then I would do the lithium starter, but since it's not that big of a difference...I'll just run an agm and lithium everything else.  No sense in making life too complicated and stressful. 

[GaryH]

Like @Woody B said the BMS system on your top quality lithium batteries won’t allow them to over charge. As I said I’ve been running a Ionic 125AH for almost 3 years and everything is all good.

 

 

 

 

[clemsondds]

Just now, GaryH said:

Like @Woody B said the BMS system on your top quality lithium batteries won’t allow them to over charge. As I said I’ve been running a Ionic 125AH for almost 3 years and everything is all good.

 

 

 

 

Yeh...would you mind giving skeeter and yamaha a call and getting them to change their position on it?  lol bc I have tried and had no luck.  And I'm sure if something did go wrong, I could get an attorney and all...but I just dont' think it's worth the hassle.  AGM batteries have worked fine for years and should work just fine for years to come.  Hopefully they (skeeter/yamaha) will see the light soon

[detroit1]

sounds like a nice boat doc.

Just now, detroit1 said:

sounds like a nice boat doc.

sounds like a nice boat, doc.

[clemsondds]

Thank you! Hopefully it will work for years to come.  And thank you everyone for your help! So here is where I'm at I think: 

crank:Duracell Ultra Group 31 AGM 12V 125ah.

House: Ionic 12v 125ah

TM: Ionic 3 x 12v 50ah 

Charger: Minn Kota 550PCL 5 bank charger

thoughts? 

Anything you recommend for connecting all this together?  I'm sure the dealer will have suggestions.  I know some had recommended a recharging system off the big motor.  Is there a brand/system for that?  I know the dealer had mentioned that they won't even connect a lithium as a backup so not sure what I will do there. 

Also, anyone have recommendations on gauge wire to run?  I remember reading someone's post about not having optimal graphics if proper gauge isn't ran.  

Thanks

 

[Siebert Outdoors]

Sounds like you are real close to mine. 

I run 4 graphs and other things on an Ionic 125

Starting battery is a lead acid battery.  Same as you.  Merc says no to lithium for starting my motor.  Not worth the risk imo.

TM ghost with 3 50ah Ionics.

Charger is a 4 bank Noco

 

I did upgrade my wiring to run all the graphs.  I've read alot on the 12v 16v for graphs.  I cant find any solid proof its worth it.  I'm not sure on that one.    Most run a 6ga wire.  Thats what I did.  I ran 2 runs.  battery to a Perko on/off switch then ran one run to the console at a blue sea fuse box and another run to the bow to a blue sea fuse box.  Console wiring runs graphs at the console and neama.  Front runs the graphs up there.  I did this for possible future expansion and updates. 

[clemsondds]

1 hour ago, Siebert Outdoors said:

Sounds like you are real close to mine. 

I run 4 graphs and other things on an Ionic 125

Starting battery is a lead acid battery.  Same as you.  Merc says no to lithium for starting my motor.  Not worth the risk imo.

TM ghost with 3 50ah Ionics.

Charger is a 4 bank Noco

 

I did upgrade my wiring to run all the graphs.  I've read alot on the 12v 16v for graphs.  I cant find any solid proof its worth it.  I'm not sure on that one.    Most run a 6ga wire.  Thats what I did.  I ran 2 runs.  battery to a Perko on/off switch then ran one run to the console at a blue sea fuse box and another run to the bow to a blue sea fuse box.  Console wiring runs graphs at the console and neama.  Front runs the graphs up there.  I did this for possible future expansion and updates. 

Cool thanks! How do your batteries fare after a day of fishing?  Do they run low at all?  Also, I think I could 5 batteries and your charger is a 4 bank...how does that work? 

Finally, do you have any kind of regenerating charger for your crank off of the main motor? Thanks again for your thoughts!  

[Siebert Outdoors]

The lowest I've got the batteries for the TM is about 75%.  That was on a long windy day on St Clair.  Now if i fished the Detroit river or a river I'm sure I could drain them fairly quickly.  But for how I normally fish I've never had an issue.   

 

I have a single charger that charges my outboard that I will hook it up and check the battery but it rarely needs charged since the motor charges it.

 

I dont fish many tournaments.

[clemsondds]

Anyone have any experience with the minn kota 550PC 5 bank? 

[clemsondds]

quick question. If you have 3 lithium 12v batteries for trolling motor...will they take three ports on the charger? I assume we would rig them in series...right? So would that be one port or three? thanks

[Big Hands]

Is the Duracell Group 31 AGM a deep cycle rather than an actual starting battery?

 

I actually use just two Duracell Group 27 AM for my 24v trolling motor as well as tapping off of one for 12v to run my 40 hp outboard, so I am not against using deep cycles to start outboards, but mine is only a 40 horse. I did have a 19' Ranger BITD with only two 6v golf cart batteries to power everything including the 200 hp Merc and the 12v Mercury Thruster trolling motor. Just not sure what the requirements of a modern 250 hp outboard are.

[WRB]

The issue with today’s high horse power OB’s computer shuts everything down when the voltage drops below 11.5V when cranking and will not start.

If you think the voltage is getting low start the OB and go for ride to charge the cranking battery.

Tom

[Craig P]

Just a note on the 50ah batteries for the TM.  That TM is looking for a 60ah input.  Guys on another forum are starting to realize their motors will not run at full speed with consistency while powering at that AH.  I would consider using 60ah for the TM.

 

50ah became a popular choice due to price in the earlier stages of everyone going lithium so it seemed like the no-brainer, welcome to the internet.  If a device requires X power, give it X power.  Many guys on that forum also state, I never use full speed and it's fine.  I fear for them the day they find out it isn't fine.