Susky River Rat Posted December 27, 2023 Posted December 27, 2023 @Catt I am just saying in the right hands it’s deadly. For your average weekend warrior it helps but, it’s not to the extent like him. Most people won’t go out and crush it just because they have it. 1 Quote
Super User Catt Posted December 27, 2023 Super User Posted December 27, 2023 7 minutes ago, Susky River Rat said: For your average weekend warrior it helps but, it’s not to the extent like him. The average angler doesn't spend anywhere near the hours on the water. Increasing the number of hours you spend on the water will greatly change your results. Last I read there's 30 million bass anglers in America. The percentage of tournament anglers & anglers with FFS is tiny. The rest of those anglers drive the market, not a bunch of "influencers". 4 Quote
Susky River Rat Posted December 27, 2023 Posted December 27, 2023 @Catt I know that’s is what I am trying to say. I am agreeing with you. Regardless of my personal opinion is on it. 1 Quote
Super User gim Posted December 27, 2023 Super User Posted December 27, 2023 2 hours ago, Mobasser said: I don't know about lots of the big lakes, but, as an example on Missouris Lake of the Ozarks, guys have won big by just cruising along and fishing all the docks. Not having electronics I actually heard that this was the case on some more heavily-pressured lakes here in MN too this past season. Most of the larger bags in recent years have come offshore because of technology. Years ago, these fish were far less pressured. Well now they've gotten too much pressure, and people stopped fishing docks. The reverse trend began to occur this past season and dock fishing played a role again. The link that the OP posted doesn't say they can't use electronics. They just can't use the ones listed. They can still use sonar, GPS, down imaging, side scan, etc. 2 Quote
Super User TOXIC Posted December 27, 2023 Super User Posted December 27, 2023 I have a very basic question…..Where are they getting the payout $$ with no sponsors? They say it’s higher payout based on the savings each angler has from less electronics, no practice, etc. That doesn’t explain where they get the purse $$ from. They also state their trail is not for the common angler, it’s for touring pros. Quote
Captain Phil Posted December 27, 2023 Posted December 27, 2023 As hard as it is for some to believe, bass were caught before electronics. 4 Quote
Super User A-Jay Posted December 27, 2023 Author Super User Posted December 27, 2023 Is that a Bill Dance as a baby ? Looks like him. A-Jay 1 1 Quote
813basstard Posted December 27, 2023 Posted December 27, 2023 8 hours ago, gimruis said: You obviously don't know who Kyoyo Fujita is. Dude would be delivering sushi without live sonar. Jesus that escalated quickly..door dash sushi is crazy.. What if he door dashed the fish he caught while looking at his screen? 1 Quote
Super User gulfcaptain Posted December 27, 2023 Super User Posted December 27, 2023 8 hours ago, rgasr63 said: Well if you are putting up the money to compete in tournaments today. F.F. sonar is necessary to compete in tournaments to get paid. No brainer there. However everybody who is competing today came up with their skills the old way and could compete without the new electronics. So let's look down the road. "Jeffery" is a young man that has learned to use the F.F.sonar very well because he is extremely comfortable with the electronics. He puts his money up and may have a good opportunity to win a major league tournament and he would not have a clue what to do if he doesn't have the electronics. So who is really the best angler then? So in your example,Jeffery will not do very well if he depends on ffs all the time and doesn't learn the other fundamentals. Those who excel do both. They fished hard, soak up information like a sponge, learning constantly, trying new things, always wanting to be better. Utilizing all the tools they can. They are driven, hungry, and passionate. Now the other side, stuck in there ways,remember what it was like before, not learning, more time complaining about the younger generation not having to do what they did to learn( yet information is now accessible to all via here, the internet. Utube) and provided by some of them and then used to excel past them. So this debate isn't about what the real cause is. See those who are excelling in the sport at the highest level that are young should be celebrated, not belittled because they have put in all the time to be better, to learn fundamentals, seasonal transitions, electronics, ffs,techniques. They did so by gaining access to all the information we give them to learn from and those who have that ODC when it comes to bass fishing. Live, eat,breath it......they are the next great KVD, Jacob Wheeler, Jordan Lee. Think about that next time those fisherman, keyboard warriors, utube celebrities, that hate on these younger guys the work they put in to be that good. Should make you think about that and stop this stupid debate and resent for the guys that do the same thing we do they fish. 3 hours ago, TOXIC said: I have a very basic question…..Where are they getting the payout $$ with no sponsors? They say it’s higher payout based on the savings each angler has from less electronics, no practice, etc. That doesn’t explain where they get the purse $$ from. They also state their trail is not for the common angler, it’s for touring pros. From the fees. Basic payout top 3-10 spots only. Payout depends on number of boats so the payouts fluctuate on persons entered. 1 Quote
Super User TOXIC Posted December 27, 2023 Super User Posted December 27, 2023 10 minutes ago, gulfcaptain said: From the fees. Basic payout top 3-10 spots only. Payout depends on number of boats so the payouts fluctuate on persons entered. Fishing for their own $$ still. When are they going to come up with a system where “professionals” are not fishing for their entry fees. 😒 Quote
Woody B Posted December 27, 2023 Posted December 27, 2023 I haven't read all the replies. but it's comical that a sanctioning organization is going to control cost by eliminating certain electronics. Let's look at the cost of these electronics. I didn't price shop, just done a quick search. Garmin Panoptix Livescope Plus with LSV34 transducer. $1699.99 Lowrance Active Target 2, with transducer. $1649.99 Humminbird Mega Live $1499.99 Humminbird Mega 360 $1299.99 The multiple graphs most people use are still legal, to nothing changes there cost wise. 2 Live Scope units, and Mega 360 combined cost ~$4900. Taking $4900 of equipment out of a $100,000 boat isn't doing much to cut cost. The entry fee is $5000. I don't see boat rules published yet, but if it's similar to BASS and others my $15000 boat isn't legal. BASS requires a minimum of 150 horsepower. A new 150 horsepower outboard cost right about the same as my complete boat, motor, trailer. A 250 horsepower outboard cost more than my boat, motor, trailer, trolling motor, lithium batteries and all of my sonar equipment. I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I'm sure it will generate some interest. I don't watch fishing, so I don't care if they stare at screens all day. I wish the Christian based non profit organization all the luck in the World. I don't see it cutting the cost of "professional fishing" much. It could also tick off some anglers sponsors should they decided to participate. Quote
Super User gulfcaptain Posted December 28, 2023 Super User Posted December 28, 2023 1 hour ago, TOXIC said: Fishing for their own $$ still. When are they going to come up with a system where “professionals” are not fishing for their entry fees. 😒 Well MLF tried that. And it's a tournament, you pay fees. It's like gambling professionally, you pay to play. Now there are times in fishing when you don't pay as you qualify for the championship at which you don't pay because you qualified. Quote
Super User WRB Posted December 28, 2023 Super User Posted December 28, 2023 Most entry fee’s are paid by a sponsor, not necessarily out of pocket. No sponsors then fee’s will be out of pocket. At best this format is a losing proposition for the pro that may win 1 or 2 events a year. We have had sonar units as long as tournament have been held since 1968. Tom 2 Quote
Global Moderator TnRiver46 Posted December 28, 2023 Global Moderator Posted December 28, 2023 6 hours ago, A-Jay said: Is that a Bill Dance as a baby ? Looks like him. A-Jay Sure is 1 Quote
rgasr63 Posted December 28, 2023 Posted December 28, 2023 5 hours ago, gulfcaptain said: So in your example,Jeffery will not do very well if he depends on ffs all the time and doesn't learn the other fundamentals. Those who excel do both. They fished hard, soak up information like a sponge, learning constantly, trying new things, always wanting to be better. Utilizing all the tools they can. They are driven, hungry, and passionate. Now the other side, stuck in there ways,remember what it was like before, not learning, more time complaining about the younger generation not having to do what they did to learn( yet information is now accessible to all via here, the internet. Utube) and provided by some of them and then used to excel past them. So this debate isn't about what the real cause is. See those who are excelling in the sport at the highest level that are young should be celebrated, not belittled because they have put in all the time to be better, to learn fundamentals, seasonal transitions, electronics, ffs,techniques. They did so by gaining access to all the information we give them to learn from and those who have that ODC when it comes to bass fishing. Live, eat,breath it......they are the next great KVD, Jacob Wheeler, Jordan Lee. Think about that next time those fisherman, keyboard warriors, utube celebrities, that hate on these younger guys the work they put in to be that good. Should make you think about that and stop this stupid debate and resent for the guys that do the same thing we do they fish. From the fees. Basic payout top 3-10 spots only. Payout depends on number of boats so the payouts fluctuate on persons entered. I don't resent the younger people coming up but I don't think they would be able to excel without being able to to find the fish with the lure instead of the electronics. Jacob Wheeler and the Lee brothers came up the ranks just like everyone else has. They have the skills to find fish and have developed into the electronics gurus also. But with such technology as is out there now I think that someone who can excel with just the electronics can win tourneys and not be able to catch a cold without them. 2 Quote
Global Moderator TnRiver46 Posted December 28, 2023 Global Moderator Posted December 28, 2023 6 hours ago, 813basstard said: Jesus that escalated quickly..door dash sushi is crazy.. What if he door dashed the fish he caught while looking at his screen? Hahaha, kyoya can catch them with or without his FFS. Just because he’s good at it, people say things. also you have to look at a screen to deliver food , I dabble Quote
Captain Phil Posted December 28, 2023 Posted December 28, 2023 6 hours ago, TnRiver46 said: Sure is Yes it is. I posted this photo on Facebook and Bill replied to thank me. It was great to hear he is still alive and kicking. He was one of the best. His TV antics were as funny as anything I have seen, especially the one where his trolling motor comes off the boat running. It's hilarious! 5 Quote
Super User gim Posted December 28, 2023 Super User Posted December 28, 2023 8 hours ago, rgasr63 said: I don't think they would be able to excel without being able to to find the fish with the lure instead of the electronics Exactly. Kyoyo Fujita is this guy. He's sweating harder than a cat on a tin roof just reading about the potential for a live sonar ban. 1 Quote
Global Moderator TnRiver46 Posted December 28, 2023 Global Moderator Posted December 28, 2023 @gimruis, kyoya can catch them just fine without FFS, he’s not 5 years old. He just so happens to be very good with it and had a heck of a rookie season . But he didn’t just start fishing when live sonar came out. I bet he would dominate this no live sonar league 1 Quote
Super User gim Posted December 28, 2023 Super User Posted December 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said: I bet he would dominate this no live sonar league We'll probably never find out. I'd be surprised if he even tried without it. I hope he does and proves me wrong though. 1 Quote
Global Moderator TnRiver46 Posted December 28, 2023 Global Moderator Posted December 28, 2023 Fujita grew up fishing off the bank and dominating tournaments before live sonar. He’s just good at catching fish 1 Quote
Super User Bankc Posted December 28, 2023 Super User Posted December 28, 2023 I like the basic premise here. But it is a bit weird to me to declare a line in the sand about electronics where they did. It's almost like they said 2017 is the demarcation line. No technology past the year 2017 may enter. Personally, I'd rather see a no sonar, or maybe only a flasher type sonar. That would put the focus of the tournament solely on the skill of the angler to catch fish, and not so much their ability to use technology. But whatever. It'll at least be nice to see people not staring at a screen after the cast. And it'll at least give the impression that the most important skill in bass fishing is something other than attracting sponsors to fund these floating laboratories. 1 Quote
Super User gulfcaptain Posted December 28, 2023 Super User Posted December 28, 2023 12 hours ago, rgasr63 said: I don't resent the younger people coming up but I don't think they would be able to excel without being able to to find the fish with the lure instead of the electronics. Jacob Wheeler and the Lee brothers came up the ranks just like everyone else has. They have the skills to find fish and have developed into the electronics gurus also. But with such technology as is out there now I think that someone who can excel with just the electronics can win tourneys and not be able to catch a cold without them. Have you fished ffs? I do and I can tell you it has a place and a time. I don't want to sound disrespectful but you're way off. Those young anglers who excel at electronics fished way before they had them. Walked banks of parks, fished behind other people and excelled in their passion. I've seen people have ffs that couldn't catch a fish with it if it were wide open. I will stand up for those that are young and beating the pants off the older generation not only with electronics but by doing the hard work. One thing I have to say is" a winner will always congratulate a winner when he's been beat, but a looser will always complain about why he lost and blame someone else or something else for their short comings". So over most discounting the hard work of young anglers to get to that level and putting them down. It's disrespectful. And I can understand why those that use it get heated. Glenn I apologize if I get taken wrong, just standing up for that young generation of talent that so many put down or discount them. 3 Quote
Global Moderator TnRiver46 Posted December 28, 2023 Global Moderator Posted December 28, 2023 @gulfcaptain gets it 1 Quote
Super User gulfcaptain Posted December 28, 2023 Super User Posted December 28, 2023 Thank you. 1 Quote
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