Rod components 101

[WRB]

I don’t recall when reel seat deign with exposed rod blanks became a standard item? I do remember when fore grips disappeared replaced by the reed hood nut exposing the threads was around 2000. Loomis and St Croix kept their short fore grip and the industry is slowly returning to this design. The reel foot hood nut has also evolved to add a comfortable design. 

Imo casting rods with micro guides have become standard and adding 2 additional guides 9 in lieu of 7 for example on a 7’ rod.  I’m still in favor of the 1st 2 running guides to be slightly large ID size to gather the whipping line with lower friction.

Single foot running guides are also standard practice with today’s bass rods. Split grips are another common deign and reduces weight.

Reducing weight is today’s goal without the rod failing under “normal” use.  

caution on inexpensive guide train for 2 reasons, 1) they break when trying to straighten and 2) the ceramic guide rings pop out randomly. 

Both Fuji and Kagin offer quality guides.

Rod blank sensitive is totally subjective and dependant how each individual interprets line movements and how the completed rod with all the components dampens line created vibrations.  

Tom

[MickD]

3 hours ago, WRB said:

totally subjective

I disagree, not "totally".  

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

4 hours ago, MickD said:

I disagree, not "totally".  

I agree with you and know where you’re coming from. Builders need to keep in mind all the variables that affect the finished rod. I’ve seen high end blanks killed with poor execution. 

[1984isNOW]

On 1/27/2024 at 3:16 PM, MickD said:

, t

I mean I understand what you're getting at to a point,  but Croix has a reputation for being softer in general.

 

Some blanks have a rep for being stronger in power

 

Maybe it's just how they decide to designate their actions and powers, but my curiosity was about how they run in general relative to each other.

On 1/29/2024 at 5:37 PM, MickD said:

I disagree

I agree

On 1/29/2024 at 9:53 PM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

I’ve seen high end blanks killed with poor execution

Or with pretty decorative wraps above the reel seat

On 1/29/2024 at 2:05 PM, WRB said:

micro guides have become standard and adding 2 additional guides 9 in lieu of 7

Is this a linear progression or coincidental?

[Chris Catignani]

On 1/30/2024 at 9:18 PM, Kites R4 Skyfishing said:

Or with pretty decorative wraps above the reel seat...

 

[1984isNOW]

On 2/22/2024 at 12:11 PM, Chris Catignani said:

 

I know some people think it's cool to do a 6-10 inch decorative wrap after the reel seat, but it's not. Just seems silly to me, unless it's on a rod rated to 100# pound line and it doesn't make a difference.

[Chris Catignani]

20 hours ago, Kites R4 Skyfishing said:

I know some people think it's cool to do a 6-10 inch decorative wrap after the reel seat, but it's not. Just seems silly to me, unless it's on a rod rated to 100# pound line and it doesn't make a difference.

I get people who specifically want a decorative wrap...I tell em its extra...not silly.

[MickD]

The issue needs to be about what a wrap like that does functionally and what it does esthetically,, and what your priorities are.  Functionally, it does not detract from the function of the rod. I challenge anyone to show a measurable functional attribute of a rod that is diminished by a wrap.  Most likely will be mentioned weight.  It's at the right spot for added weight, and it amounts to almost nothing, so this is not significant.  If one values asthetics, then this kind of wrap can add a lot of value.  I say just relax, do what you value, they all fish just fine.  

[1984isNOW]

On 2/25/2024 at 7:07 PM, Chris Catignani said:

tell em its extra

Hahaha I can dig it man, business is business

 

@MickD I hear you and all, but I would bet money that a accelerometer would be able to measure a difference in the rod before and after a 10 inch wrap after the reel seat. If a titanium tip top can make an impact on TNF, then whatever TNF is measuring would be affected if it was measure at the decorative wrap before and after.

 

I'm not knockin the hustle, but if a dude is gonna drop over a hundred bucks just on a set of guides because it will improve performance by saving 3-5g of weight but then add a 10 inch decorative wrap that, depending on which pattern, easily adds at least that amount of weight back and possibly more I'm thinking "I got a pack of magic beans for sale"

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

The difference between a wrap and guides is where the weight lies.  TNF is specifically a tip recovery measurement so it can only be measured there.  At the end of the day custom = to each his own. 

[MickD]

9 hours ago, Kites R4 Skyfishing said:

f a titanium tip top can make an impact on TNF, then whatever TNF is measuring would be affected if it was measure at the decorative wrap before and after.

I assure you I've done my last wrap, so I won't be doing the comparison.  But, I have noted that with XFast actions, which don't bend much into the butt section until heavily loaded, that the TNF is unaffected by the difference in weight of SS and titanium reduction guides on a spin blank.  Fuji KLH 20-10-5.5M.  So I doubt if a wrap would affect TNF.  Or any other function exc maybe on a very slow action fly blank or a slow action ultra light.  The tiptop is at the exact worse spot on the blank for added weight.  Note that I said on that particular blank the difference was measurable.  I did not say that the SS tiptop significantly affected the blank/rod's fishing qualities.  

 

TNF measures the recovery speed from deflection.  That is what TNF measures. The faster the recovery speed, theoretically, means the longer the cast because the blank's tip speed in recovery is faster, so the lure is moving faster. 

 

An article on TNF was in a recent issue of a rodbuilding magazine, and if you want a copy of it so you can better understand it, I'll be glad to send one by email.

[spoonplugger1]

Kites R4,

Don Mook ran Shikari out of Oklahoma, before that he worked with Gary Loomis at his first company LCI, Loomis Composites Inc., than Gary started G Loomis, Don helped start Talon Graphites off of the leftovers, it still is in operation in Woodland, WA along with Lamiglas, NFC/Edge, and G Loomis. NFC is just a few buildings down from G Loomis. Don than helped start up the All Star factory, early years at Batson/Rainshadow, back in the day Pac Bay and Rainshadows US built blanks were built at All Star, and he built Shikari, some time in there Cascade Composites was built by investors near the Batsons in Sequim, WA. When Cascade Composites closed Batson/Rainshadow went offshore almost exclusively.