What are your local ratios?

[Zcoker]

On 12/12/2023 at 1:08 PM, ol'crickety said:

 

Ain't that the truth.

 

However, Tn, you're not made for fishing kayak tourneys. You're a social guy, made to fish with your friends and put them on 20"-plus smallies.

 

My lmbs are wild in the boat because I winch them in ASAP to keep them out of the weeds. If I had more water to play them, they wouldn't be so bonkers when they meet me.

 

 

You had me hooked until ^this." I don't do droves. If there's one other canoe/kayak on a bog, I feel crowded.

 

I'm like Huck Finn, who closed his book with these words, "But I reckon I got to light out for the Territory ahead of the rest, because Aunt Sally she's going to adopt me and sivilize me and I can't stand it. I been there before."

 

I'd find the part of the Everglades without people, which I figure would be most of it, right?

 

I'm not into the crowds, either. And is why I just love fishing in the glades. And, yes, the glades is about as absolute as absolute gets, absolutely barren as far as human life goes lol. Headwaters has turned into a mecca of sorts, thanks to social media. What's interesting about Headwaters: it's not natural. It's completely staged. It was once a cow pasture or a sod farm. It's by design, like a playground, folks got together over coffee and came up with this trophy fishery idea and then stocked it with over a million fish. It's tailored specifically for trophy bass. Whereas the glades, on the other hand, is about as wild as wild gets and is probably the reason why the bass out there are so darn mean and nasty lol 

 

[Jar11591]

38 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

If it ain’t one thing it’s another.

 And usually it’s both!

[Blue Raider Bob]

I have had a 75 fish day without catching an 18" Bass. Me and a buddy caught 100 with him catching the only 18" Bass. They are a rarity for me because of where I fish, how I choose to fish, and my skill level. The only lunkers I ever see are on this site. But there is always that chance.......keeps me anxious to keep going! With that said, my ratio would be far lower than the rest of you, about 100/1.

[Jar11591]

1 hour ago, MIbassyaker said:

 

 Good lord, Jar!  A 19" is probably about once out of every 75-100 bass caught for me. 

 

 

This year was a shorter sample size than usual, and I did have a really good year size-wise and an average year numbers-wise. It’s not that high every year, but probably not too far off of that on a normal year. 

 

[WRB]

19 hours ago, WRB said:

Send your reel to Mike at DVL.

Dan at ReelEx is retiring...he was the top Shimano tech in the country.

Tom

 

[WRB]

It’s been my experience that bass tend to group by size, shorter the length the more bass the same size will be together, longer the grouping has fewer and fewer bass until there isn’t any longer bass in that ecosystem.

Example is last spring when Big Hands (Jeff) was kind enough to take me out with him. We got on a excellent bite catching about 30 bass all ranging between 19”-20” and few under 17”, Big group of 4lb to 5+ lb bass. They were like cookie cutters the same year class feeding as a group.

Back in the early 90’s We has year classes in the 24” to 28” size that weighed 10 lbs to 20 lbs, nearly 100% girth to length bass. My PB was 28 1/2” long with 28” girth a giant massive body FLMB. This size the group is maybe 3 bass in one area.

We had wolf packs of 24” 10-12lb bass back in the day that hunted trout as a group.

Those days are gone.

Tom

[Team9nine]

And this thread is a perfect example of why whenever the topic of big bass comes up, the first rule of thumb is always, “location, location, location.”

 

For the vast majority of public waters, most of the bass available to be caught are under 18.” That measurement is a standard metric for state fisheries depts., and almost regardless of where you pull the data, this rings true, even in the south. Here is just one of numerous examples, this one from a pool of 100+ Oklahoma lakes:

 

 

You can roughly estimate the number of 18” or greater bass from the graph at about 6% or less. That works out to about 1 out of every 17 bass. In Indiana, where I’ve fished most of my life, our best lakes are around 10%, but an overwhelming majority are in the 0%-3% range (% of bass >= 18”). 
 

Just looking at my numbers from this year, I’m well north of 2,000 bass for the year, but only have about 2 dozen or so legit over 18”, so about 1% or just over. While you can certainly change a few things with your approach to try and target big(ger) bass, the most obvious (and best?) thing anyone can do is make every effort to spend your time on waters that simply have a high population of above sized fish. Your catch ratios will reflect the results of this one simple step. 
 

I’d add, this is also why you can’t/shouldn’t compare your catches to someone else’s on the forum - or feel bad about your catch size. Someone else mentioned in another thread (@A-Jay ?), something to the tune of, “put an average basser on above average water and you might be surprised by outcome.”

[A-Jay]

I rarely measure the length of the smallmouth bass I land.

My 'size' is always judged by the basses weight

and I weigh most every fish I feel is close to or over 4 lbs.

My favorite places to fish and the ones I fish the most

have a decent gene pool that includes a healthy population of bait & brown bass.

Finding & catching them, well - there's the rub. 

IME the 'ratio's' of 4lb plus fish vs 5lb plus fish vs 6lb plus fish vs anything bigger than that,

is pretty darn good here and I never take that for granted.

The actual ratio reads like fiction.

Which doesn't hurt my feeling any. 

 

Unlike @Team9nine who literally catches thousands of bass, I do not.

If I make 50 - 60 trips a season, I probably average between 150 - 250 bass a year. 

Can't say for sure as I usually only 'count' plus size fish.

I never have 50 fish days here, ever. 

Just One of these brown beauties a trip, is an Excellent Day for me.

However, my log reports indicate that the ones I usually take pictures of

often come in pairs or even bunches.

Which means many, many fishless trips.

Nature of the beast. 

Fish Hard

A-Jay

 

 

 

 

 

[Swamp Girl]

1 hour ago, Zcoker said:

And is why I just love fishing in the glades. And, yes, the glades is about as absolute as absolute gets, absolutely barren as far as human life goes lol.

 

There are wilder places, like Ungava (northern Quebec) and Labrador, both many times larger than the Everglades and both have rivers and lakes that no one has ever recorded paddling or fishing. 

 

1 hour ago, WRB said:

Back in the early 90’s We has year classes in the 24” to 28” size that weighed 10 lbs to 20 lbs, nearly 100% girth to length bass. My PB was 28 1/2” long with 28” girth a giant massive body FLMB. This size the group is maybe 3 bass in one area.

We had wolf packs of 24” 10-12lb bass back in the day that hunted trout as a group.

 

I love when WRB shares the stories of these "gone" days. 

 

Thanks, @Team9nine: Lots of solid data there. 

 

37 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

If I make 50 - 60 trips a season, I probably average between 150 - 250 bass a year. 

 

This helps me understand what you sacrifice to catch those big, brown bass.

 

1 hour ago, Blue Raider Bob said:

With that said, my ratio would be far lower than the rest of you, about 100/1.

 

Bob, knowing what you've done with your life, you bow to no one. Fish smish. You're like Frodo standing before Aragorn. 

 

[Zcoker]

40 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

And this thread is a perfect example of why whenever the topic of big bass comes up, the first rule of thumb is always, “location, location, location.”

 

For the vast majority of public waters, most of the bass available to be caught are under 18.” That measurement is a standard metric for state fisheries depts., and almost regardless of where you pull the data, this rings true, even in the south. Here is just one of numerous examples, this one from a pool of 100+ Oklahoma lakes:

 

 

You can roughly estimate the number of 18” or greater bass from the graph at about 6% or less. That works out to about 1 out of every 17 bass. In Indiana, where I’ve fished most of my life, our best lakes are around 10%, but an overwhelming majority are in the 0%-3% range (% of bass >= 18”). 
 

Just looking at my numbers from this year, I’m well north of 2,000 bass for the year, but only have about 2 dozen or so legit over 18”, so about 1% or just over. While you can certainly change a few things with your approach to try and target big(ger) bass, the most obvious (and best?) thing anyone can do is make every effort to spend your time on waters that simply have a high population of above sized fish. Your catch ratios will reflect the results of this one simple step. 
 

I’d add, this is also why you can’t/shouldn’t compare your catches to someone else’s on the forum - or feel bad about your catch size. Someone else mentioned in another thread (@A-Jay ?), something to the tune of, “put an average basser on above average water and you might be surprised by outcome.”

 

Respectively, I don't necessarily agree with this based off experience--not so much for your nice charts and data but more to do with catching nice fish in places that are assumed not to have them. I've only been seriously bass fishing for just over 3 years. Before that, I couldn't buy a bite with the bigger fish. And that's fishing the same places that I'm fishing now, places that have an abundant population of large bass, which is the south Florida everglades. Yet I just couldn't catch any. I'd spend days out there, year after year, doing about the same things that I'm doing now yet coming up empty handed. It wasn't' until I really put my mind to it that I had a massive turnaround. When I started seriously thinking big bass, I started seriously catching big bass! So, for me, at least, it had been more a mental roadblock that obviously had prevented me from catching the bigger fish. Now I catch them all the time anywhere I go. Heck, I caught an 8 pounder a while ago in a fish empty water skiing lake that is supposedly fishless! A location far far away from the glades. So, in my opinion, if the mindset isn't there for any body of water fished, then the outcome will no doubt be unfavorable for those larger bites. 

[Dwight Hottle]

For smallmouth on Erie the ratio of 5lb bass caught to 6lb was at least 10 to 1 meaning you would catch 10 five pounders before you would catch one six pounder. And the ratio of 6lb bass to 7lb bass was more like 20 to 1. A 20" bass would weigh 4+ lbs while a 21" would weigh 5+lbs & a 22'" was 6lbs+. I weighed one 21" that went 7-1lbs & weighed one 23" that only went 6-12lbs so there were exceptions to the rule based on mostly girth. Two other 7lbers were 22"plus. Like @A-Jay experiences high numbers were the exception not the rule when fishing for trophys. But during the heyday on Erie you could get 50 to 100 fish days with two guys just fishing for numbers.   

[Swamp Girl]

2 minutes ago, Dwight Hottle said:

For smallmouth on Erie the ratio of 5lb bass caught to 6lb was at least 10 to 1 meaning you would catch 10 five pounders before you would catch one six pounder. And the ratio of 6lb bass to 7lb bass was more like 20 to 1.

 

THANK YOU, Dwight. ^This^ is exactly what I was hoping to learn. With 10 five-pounders for every six-pounder, I wonder what happened to the other 9 five-pounders who never became six-pounders. Insufficient genetics? Age? Disease? Died post-spawn? Any ideas, Dwight?

[Catt]

11 minutes ago, ol'crickety said:

I wonder what happened to the other 9 five-pounders who never became six-pounders. Insufficient genetics?

 

According Texas ShareLunker researchers concerning LM, not every bass is genetically capable of becoming a 10#. 

[WRB]

Males vs Females in the bass world the males are 1/2 the weight of the females of equal age. I caught 1 LMB that biologist Larry Bothroff confirmed as a male was a Northern LMB that weighed 7 lbs and 26” long. Larry said at the time it was the biggest male he had examined. The bass was from San Vicente in 1968.

My PB NLMB is 12 1/4lbs, 28” long from Casitas in 1971.

Tom

[Swamp Girl]

11 minutes ago, Catt said:

 

According Texas ShareLunker researchers concerning LM, not every bass is genetically capable of becoming a 10#. 

 

Let's say I'm the rare smallie that's genetically capable of becoming a six-pounder. However, I might not have the  predatory skills to do so or I might live in that part of the lake that would provide enough prey, by dint of competition or environment, to reach six pounds.

 

3 minutes ago, WRB said:

I caught 1 LMB that biologist Larry Bothroff confirmed as a male was a Northern LMB that weighed 7 lbs and 26” long.

 

I had NO idea that a male LMB could grow that big. Incredible. Too bad he didn't date Dot, that biggest LMB ever boated. 

[A-Jay]

36 minutes ago, ol'crickety said:

 

THANK YOU, Dwight. ^This^ is exactly what I was hoping to learn. With 10 five-pounders for every six-pounder, I wonder what happened to the other 9 five-pounders who never became six-pounders. Insufficient genetics? Age? Disease? Died post-spawn? Any ideas, Dwight?

 

I could think of couple of things.

One being predation.

Bass aren't always at or even close to the top of the food chain;

especially on the big water.

Big Lake Trout, Pike & Muskie.

@Dwight Hottle has a few pics of some very scary giants.

Lake Menderchuck Bass need to avoid these.

A-Jay

 

[gim]

I don't keep track of all these ratios on size of bass I'm catching.  Anything that is about 17 inches or longer to me is a quality fish for where I fish, both largemouth and smallmouth.  I got on a really good prespawn smallmouth bite in May and the bass were shaped like footballs.  Generally, a 20 incher weighs about 5 pounds here unless its post spawn, then they are on the skinny side for a while.  Some of these smallmouth were so bulbous it was downright ridiculous.

[thediscochef]

for every 0 bass i catch, i have caught 0 bass. I tried to change that today and i would have succeeded if it weren't for the fact that i failed

[Swamp Girl]

@thediscochef, you're one of those 0 x 0 + 0 - 0 = 0 anglers, aren't cha? 

 

@gimruis, I don't know whether to laugh or gasp when I see those bass.

[Tennessee Boy]

I honestly have not measured the length of a bass in 25 years and when I did then it was in a tournament when I knew the fish was close to the size limit.  

 

I would say that about 1 in 25 fish I catch are over 4 pounds but it varies so much depending the body of water I'm fishing and even the time of year.  Some lakes it's more like 1 in 100.  I used to live close to the Tennessee River in Huntsville Alabama.  I fished a lot after work from the ramp nearest my house.   In the Summer I never caught a fish over 4 pounds.  In the Winter I rarely caught one under 3 pounds and I fished far more hours in the Summer than the Winter.

[Catt]

@ol'crickety

Genetics first & then a healthy ecosystem. 

 

ShareLunker genetic data shows 4 or 5 generation of double digit bass. 

[Dwight Hottle]

1 hour ago, ol'crickety said:

 

THANK YOU, Dwight. ^This^ is exactly what I was hoping to learn. With 10 five-pounders for every six-pounder, I wonder what happened to the other 9 five-pounders who never became six-pounders. Insufficient genetics? Age? Disease? Died post-spawn? Any ideas, Dwight?

Katie my numbers reflect size class scarcity, i.e.at the ratio of fish caught to the next weight class above. For example I'm saying I catch 10 five lbers for every one 6lber. The higher the weight the more scarce that size fish is in the system. I don't know what percentage of 5lbers never grow to become 6lbers but I would surmise it's a combination of genetics & age rather than disease or trauma from spawning. Five lbers are abundant throughout the system. Six lbers must be readily available or I would not have caught as many as I have. But when you get to the 7lb class the numbers available become rather scarce even though there are even bigger classes like 8lbers, 9lbers & the magic 10lber. All of the above observations are based on the assumption that angler efficiency is the same for all size fish classes. 

[greentrout]

I'm not the kind of fisherman who keeps stats on my ratios. Nothing wrong with doing that but I'll pass. Most of the bigger bass I caught were in farm ponds and private waters with owners who had them stocked and managed.

 

Texas does an outstanding job with its public waters. There the fisherman has a good chance to catch a large bass even in its urban locations -- not necessarily DD bass. 

 

The state of Mississippi, where I live, has State Fishing Lakes where the State manages the lakes for potential DD Bass. They are stocked with Florida Bass. The state also stocks and manages other Fishing Lakes by stocking them with Northen Bass for higher catch rates for the fisherman.

 

Personally, I enjoy catching Bass, but I will from-time-time go to the DD lakes. Yet to catch one.

 

Good Fishing

 

Pond Boss Magazine: Trophy Largemouth Bass Fisheries: The Benefit of All Female Populations

[MIbassyaker]

Here are my own data from 1521 bass caught over the last 7 years from public waters in the Grand Rapids, MI area, April through October (about half are from May and June).  These include both largemouth and smallmouth, and come from 35 different bodies of water, all but one under 500 acres:

 

 

Bins go from .0 to .9, so "12.5" is all bass 12 inches and above, but less than 13. And so on.

 

About 1/3 of the bass I catch are above the minimum keeper size limit of 14"

About 1 in 10 is 16" or larger

About 1 in 38 is 18" or larger

About 1 in 95 is 19" or larger

About 1 in 218 is 20" or larger.

And 1 in 761 is 21" or larger.  

 

But there are only a little more than 3 dozen 18"+ fish in the sample.  

 

To answer the initial question, my ratio of 19 to 20 inchers, and from 20 to 21 inchers, have each been about 2 to 1, but altogether that amounts to less than than 20 fish.

 

(BTW,  I'm guessing the steeper drop from the 14.5 range to the 15.5 range is harvest pressure.)

[TnRiver46]

5 hours ago, thediscochef said:

for every 0 bass i catch, i have caught 0 bass. I tried to change that today and i would have succeeded if it weren't for the fact that i failed

You got ‘em right where you want ‘em