Central Florida Lake Report

[Nitro 882]

I'm getting excited about my upcoming annual 3 month (Jan-April) Florida vacation. I tow my boat down and I get to fish 3 to 4 times a week. I've been fortunate to be able to do this for the last 17 years and, for most of that time the puzzling "war against the weeds" has been in full force. Some have said that the affected lakes are headed for total annihilation with the fishing industry being an obvious victim. Others claim that the "war" is only targeting invasive species and is necessary for the waterways to remain viable. As I can't imagine the State of Florida intentionally destroying the fishing industry which is worth some $13 billion (fresh and saltwater) annually I choose to believe the claim of targeted removal of invasive weeds.

Having said that, I've recently read some current articles detailing increased spraying activity with some lakes suffering irreversible destruction of all aquatic life, weeds and fish. One hard to believe report claims the near total absence of all types of weeds in The Big "O". (I did that cause I can't spell the actual name).

Would like to get some current info as to what I'm going to experience.

By the way, over the past 17 years, even with the dire predictions I have always managed to catch a respectable number of "bucket mouths". Hopefully this year will be the same, or better.

Thanks in advance for your input.

 

Tom

[N Florida Mike]

I dont get out as much there anymore, but the Northern St Johns is very sparse on weeds.

The feeder creeks still have pads.

Fishing the cypress trees on high tide is a good pattern in the spring…

[Captain Phil]

You must be reading some old material? There was a time when Florida made just about every mistake you could make in aquatic weed control. About thirty years ago,the Florida Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) declared hydrilla an invasive plant to be removed by any method possible. This allowed local authorities to do whatever they felt necessary to destroy these plants.  They put this in the hands of people who had no idea what they were doing or how to do it. For example, here in Lake County the water department's mosquito control unit had this authority. Without environmental and fisheries knowledge, they almost totally collapsed the Harris Chain bass fishery.  I fought with them for years over this and was one of their most vocal critics. More recently, the invasive Plant Management Section of the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission is the lead agency in Florida responsible for coordinating and funding two statewide programs controlling invasive aquatic and upland plants on public conservation lands and waterways throughout the state. The section also ensures that beneficial native aquatic plants in Florida's ponds, lakes and rivers are protected through its permitting programs and funding research to find more cost-effective management techniques. Working with fisheries biologists, they are doing a much better job of managing aquatic weed control.

 

Florida is a special case when it comes to aquatic plants.  In most States, cold winters keep hydrilla from taking over the lake.  In Florida, it doesn't stay cold enough and hydrilla can quickly render a lake unfishable.  Fisheries biologists tell me the best weed to water ratio is about 20% growth.  To attain this takes management. Management costs money.   Since weed control is now being managed by biologists instead of politicians, things are much better. The Harris Chain is an example of this.  Bass fishing on the Chain is better now than in the past.    Hydrilla will always be a problem in Florida.  It's been here so long that it is no longer invasive, it's become a part of the environment.   Before hydrilla there were bass.  If you find the hydrilla where you were fishing last week is gone, be assured the fish did not die, they just moved.

[GaryH]

Great write up Capt.👍

[Nitro 882]

Thanks to Capt. Phil for his perspective on an issue that has to be close to his heart.

The info I read might have been dead wrong but it was very recent. Included claims of spray boats on Toho 5 days a week during October '23. Capt. Phils read on this is the only sensible explanation. It took some time but common sense prevailed. In no way would any state intentionally destroy such a valuable asset. I have a sneaky feeling that there are some local fisherman who would rather us "snow birds" stay the hell home and off their precious "honey holes". As busy as I've seen some ramps with all the weekend tourneys etc. , I can't blame them.

Happy holidays to all. 😉

[TOXIC]

We do a fishing week in Florida for the past few years.  Been to Okeechobee 3 times, Kissimmee 3 time and Headwaters for the first time in January of this year.  Spraying has heavily influenced our decisions on where to go.  One of our fishing friends frequents Okeechobee and he has sent us pictures of areas we fished in the past that are now dead zones.  I lived in JAX on the St Johns for 2 years and tournament fished it, I also made a few trips to Harris Chain during that time and a few less known lakes.  Where are we going in January of next year…..Headwaters……..a lake designed and managed for fishing.  No air boats, no pleasure boats and no spraying. 

[Captain Phil]

The problem with fishermen is they get locked into one thing and when that thing changes they don't adapt.  I remember a tournament on Lake Istokpoga twenty five years ago.   In the months leading up to the tournament, the lake was practically topped out with hydrilla.  The fish were offshore and everyone was catching fish.   A few weeks before the tournament, the spray boats came in and most of the hydrilla sunk to the bottom.  Everyone was ticked and thought the lake was dead.   Fisherman who knew better followed the fish onto the shoreline and started flipping the shoreline pads.  It was the craziest fishing I have seen.  Those pads were full of monster bass.  We didn't have braid back then and break offs were common.   It took over thirty pounds to win that tournament.  Most of the fishermen zeroed because they fished where the fish weren't.  Modern aquatic weed spraying does not kill fish.   They do the same thing you would do if your home get's hit with a tornado, they move to the closest shelter they can find.  

[TOXIC]

While spraying may not kill fish (I have seen fish with lesions and sores that were attributed to spray chemicals), what it does do is kill habitat for fry and the results of that are not immediate.  I’ve been following the spraying campaign in Florida and have heard everything from the sugar companies involvement on Okeechobee to rumors of kickbacks to state officials on a larger scale.  Contracts paid by the gallon of product sprayed and on and on.  Which is true we may never know but I can tell you from personal experience in a chain of Wisconsin lakes that I fished for 25 years and the last 5 after the lake association enacted a spray campaign, the fishing has been severely impacted to the negative….severely…..numbers are waaay down and the behavior of the fish has changed.  The lakes are now mainly a night bite because there is no vegetation for them to shelter in so they go deep and dormant during the day, then move up and feed at night.  Are they still there?  Yes.  But their numbers are definitely down.  I would hate to see this same scenario play out on Florida lakes.  

[Zcoker]

The spraying here in south east Florida some of us call "Nuking", and for a very good reason. So when anything is sprayed, we talk on the lines of, "hey, such and such lake just got nuked." Which is about right. Kenansville Lake (or Jurassic Park, as it's also called) is a prime example on the smaller bodies of water, the detrimental effect it can have on the fishing. I don't know if the concentration is higher or to what extent the chemical compound is made to, but after they nuked that place a few times, seemed like it wiped out just about everything that swam. I know they say the bass don't die and I can't say if there's any other method to use, but it sure does take a LONG TIME for any recovery with what chemicals they're using nowadays. And even at that, I've yet to see any of these places recover fully from previous sprayings. I used to go the Kenansville and catch trophy fish just about every trip along with loads of other nice fish. Now it's very hit or miss, sometimes hardly a bite, day or night. I've spent many nights out there solo in a kayak going over the entire lake. It's not like it used to be, heck no! It's like these places just get worse and worse. The Stick Marsh (another prime lake) was once thought to be the end-all place for trophy fish and is now nothing by a mud hole, plain and simple. They just recently drained it to plant vegetation around the banks in an attempt to bring things back to normal but that could take years! All these places are very fragile from previous sprayings, so they're all extremely prone to complete decimation, living up to that term nuking!  

[TnRiver46]

It’s even a worse policy here, tva allows homeowners to hire a company called aquatic services to spray poison into the water we drink. What could go wrong? They don’t like aquatic vegetation near their house so they just pay someone to kill it without one consideration of ecological impacts. At least in FLA it’s the FWC spraying, not a Karen with a boat dock 

[TOXIC]

@TnRiver46 not so fast.  The FWC isn’t spraying a thing.  It’s all contracted out and I’ve seen the pictures of the contractors trucks/trailers lined up in a row at some ramps.  I’ve also seen videos of them dumping gallons of chemical over the side of the airboats they use to spray.  Very ugly situation.  Nuked is the right definition.  They claim only the invasives are killed but from the pictures I’ve been sent of the before and after, there isn’t anything green left.  

[TnRiver46]

Thats sucks!!! I thought maybe they were maybe a tad more responsible 

[Zcoker]

You're correct. All contracted out. They get free reign. The gates to some of these retention areas are opened up for them to have a field day. One place in particular down my way, they completely killed off most of the sawgrass islands. Took over a year for those islands to stabilize as well as the fish to start biting again. Never been the same. They probably don't really give a hoot. I mean, they get their marching orders, "hey, head over to so and so and nuke it!" We're just doing what we're told. No one in control. No one to strictly monitor. Not a tree hugger here but if any one has ever seen the before and after of some of these nuke jobs, hard to imagine anything surviving them. 

[GRiver]

I live on the St. John’s , near Lake George, they sprayed a few years ago right in front of my house. Usually they spray, it dies down then come back, this time what ever they sprayed killed it and it never returned…. Pads, cattails and eel grass. 
“The powers to be”, claim the hurricanes took out the vegetation, but they had already been through. 
FWC has started a replant of the eel grass but aquatic wild has been eating the sprouts, I offered them to put their plots in front of my place and I would try to keep an eye on them. But they plant them on the Ocala forest side and they get destroyed.

Que sera, sera

[TOXIC]

I lived on the St Johns right across from Doctors Lake.  Fished Black Creek and Julington Creek a bunch.  Luckily for me there wasn’t any spraying when I was there.  Lots of eelgrass and pads.  

[Dwight Hottle]

The trouble with the nuking weed control across Fl is that it ruins the fisherie for a long time . When you kill off all the aquatic vegetation you increase water turbidity in a state that already has plenty of wind events. Also the wholesale killing of vegetation causes the dead weeds to sink to the bottom & rot while depriving the water of oxygen. When the weeds are removed by mechanical harvesting they are mostly removed from the water not to rot & use up oxygen. The sprayers are paid  by how much product they use & have no incentive to carefully target just invasive weeds. I know that there is a need to control vegetation for navigation purposes but there has to be a better way than the current program. 

[Zcoker]

Good point about all those nuked plants dying in the water. They die, sink to the bottom and turn the water into a muddy cesspool. Some of these places down my way used to be so fresh and clear. The water clarity in south Florida has never been the greatest but with constant spaying it starting to look like chocolate mixed with charcoal. 

[Captain Phil]

You guys are saying the same things I have been saying for years.  Nobody likes weed spraying.   Unfortunately or fortunately depending upon who you are, Florida waters must be managed for a wide range of uses.  Lakefront homeowners don't want to look outside their million dollar home and see a sea of grass.  Pleasure boaters don't want to stop to clean weeds off their prop every 200 yards.  Waterfront restaurants and marina owners want clear navigation.   I have seen Little Lake Harris so topped out with hydrilla only a kayak could fish it.   Same thing for some parts of the Kissimmee Chain.  If you take the time to talk to scientists, fisheries biologists and game officials like I have, you will discover it's not just nuking the lake with poison.  Informed management is the answer. It takes time and money before you see the results.  Twenty five years ago, the Harris Chain was dead.  There were smelly fish kills all over the place and the water looked like brown goo.  Tournaments were won by fishing back far in the canals.  After hundreds of millions of dollars spent to restore the lakes, we now have 2-3 tournaments each weekend and the fishing is better than I have seen it in 50 years.   Instead of bellyaching about weed spraying, go to the local meetings and get involved in the process.  The people in charge want to hear from you.  Be polite and listen more than you talk.  It is working here and it can work where you fish. 

[TOXIC]

@Captain Phil, I don’t want to question your stance since you live there and fish there and I cannot attend meetings from here in Virginia but I do have friends that are heavily involved in the spraying controversy and while you state all the non fishing reasons for the spraying which I have heard before and I totally agree with, none of the advantages you claim for fishing has ever been brought up at the meetings from those that fish.  I’ve read the transcripts.  Add to that starving manatees, freshwater fish kills and a lot of other issues like the mass chemical dumpings, I have yet to hear of the fishing benefits from biologists, scientists, FWC or it’s contractors.  I suspect all the big $$ you referenced in residential and commercial use as well as pleasure boating which is a lot more popular than fishing, is the real reason behind the spraying.  You’ve said your wife is/was in real estate so you know exactly where the $$ resides.  You’ll not find a single fisherman who frequents Okeechobee say the spraying has been in any way positive for the fishery.  The spraying justification has always been to eliminate invasive plants.  

[Captain Phil]

2 hours ago, TOXIC said:

You’ll not find a single fisherman who frequents Okeechobee say the spraying has been in any way positive for the fishery.  The spraying justification has always been to eliminate invasive plants.  

 

I have been fishing Florida water's since 1960.   Spent my life chasing bass in Okeechobee, the Everglades and anywhere else you could find a bass.  I helped Slim's son hand crank the old Slim's Fish Camp bridge when I was a kid.  I guess you could say I know something about that lake.  I didn't say spraying is beneficial, I said it is a necessary evil.  There aren't enough mechanical harvesters in the world to make a dent in that lake.  The lake's poor water quality is not due to weed spraying alone.  It's due to agriculture, cattle farming, human development, channelizing rivers, artificial water level manipulation, septic tanks, highway run off and I probably left out a few.  This issue is much deeper than spraying hydrilla.  Progress is being made.  All you have to do is fish Lake Apopka to know that. 

[Swamp Girl]

20 hours ago, Captain Phil said:

human development

 

Amen. When I was a kid, Florida was an oversized spit with sea shell shacks and gator wrestling. Now, it's Los Angeles the Sequel. 

[Zcoker]

22 hours ago, ol'crickety said:

 

Amen. When I was a kid, Florida was an oversized spit with sea shell shacks and gator wrestling. Now, it's Los Angeles the Sequel. 

 

Los Angeles sequel, Gator wrestling, lol. I wrestle with them all the time when I'm out in the glades!  Old Florida is still on the road map, even in the densely populated areas. I have a home on the west coast of Florida, lil town called Safety Harbor just outside of Clearwater across the bay from Tampa. Once populated by the Tocobaga Indian tribe, it's still a place of safe haven with old Florida homes shrouded with big live oaks, Spanish moss hanging everywhere like grey ghost...and it still spits! I can hear the sound of the oyster beds during low tide, spitting away! Wonderful little place with red brick streets (hard to even imagine that they hand-laid all them individual bricks!). Lotta small towns like that all over this state. And our entire state is still OWNED by the Everglades. Nothing much gonna grow there except sawgrass...and BIG bass!  

 

 

[Swamp Girl]

You sure lol a lot.

[Zcoker]

On 12/18/2023 at 9:02 AM, ol'crickety said:

You sure lol a lot.

lol

[Alex from GA]

One of the lake I fish in central FL has weeds removed by mostly mechanical means and another is sprayed.  If they recently sprayed the fishing sucks all winter in those areas.  Thankfully there are several lakes and rivers that are close enough to find one that hasn't been sprayed that year.  I did catch a fish once.