Understanding the intricacies of bait casters

[postoak]

After overhauling 4 of these now, 

 

What I've learned so far: When you press the thumb bar down (actually a slight arc), it rotates the clutch plate approximately 90 degrees. This causes the cam plate (which is attached to the clutch plate) to also rotate. Somehow, a slanted nylon cam on the cam plate and flat nylon on the pinion yoke convert the rotary motion to linear motion in the direction of the crank handle.  This disengages the pinion gear from the pin on the spool shaft, allowing the spool to move freely in either direction. The ratchet pawl is moved into position against the ratchet wheel to prevent the handle from being able to rotate in reverse or forward. The spring linking the body and the pawl doesn't seem to compress, it just changes direction 90 degrees. Its function seems to be to provide positional stability only. All that remains is for a forward wind of the crank (against resistance, which suddenly collapses), and you are back where you started. This forward movement of the crank turns the ratchet wheel against the pawl and, because the back side of the ratchet teeth are curved whereas the other sides are straight, the handle is eventually able to move free. The pawl is moved out of the way to its original position and the spring is also moved to its original position.

 

If this is all true, then I have one thing I am confused about.  On some reels, there is another coil spring the function of which I'm not clear about.  You can see it in the Lew's Speed Spool, for example.  It's near the top of the reel, above the clutch plate.  I can't see from videos what it attaches to at each end or what its function is. All I can see is that it doesn't compress either, it just changes orientation.

 

 

[king fisher]

Press the thumb bar to cast, turn the handle to retrieve.

[garroyo130]

[Hulkster]

[bulldog1935]

it's a lot of words - photo essay is the stuff of internet bulletin boards.  

 

Since 1918, the function of freespool clutch is to lift pinion gear out of engagement with both main gear and spool.  

 

(Douglas patent didn't have a button - rotating the handle backwards lifts the yoke and pinion)

 

All reels with a clutch button also have a clutch yoke that reaches to the main shaft.  Cranking the handle, the main shaft pushes on the clutch yoke to snap it back to engagement.  Most of the springs there preload the clutch yoke when you move it, and then snap it back.  

 

 

@Glenn Sorry Glenn, I'm too good a fisherman to bite. 

[Glenn]

2 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

internet bulletin boards

???  What are we, 1987??

 

[postoak]

Thanks Bulldog.  So the cam plate and pinion yoke camming surface are supposed to lift the pinion gear above and out of contact with the main gear?  Because I don't see that happening on the one I just worked on.  (Which isn't what I was expecting, TBH.) Movement was only about 1mm up (towards the crank handle).  I'm going to open another reel and see how far it moves things.

 

I also don't understand how turning the main shaft (rotary motion) would cause the yoke to move (linear motion parallel to the main shaft).  (Not arguing, just trying to understand the parts involved in making this happen.)  Also, there's the issue that the main shaft can't move until it overcomes the pawl position against the ratchet teeth.

 

I really appreciate your response.

[bulldog1935]

set up a couple of photos, and we can talk details, friend.  

If all else fails, go to a video, stop it where you can see what you want to talk about, and use Snipping Tool to capture a jpeg.  (or snip a schematic)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_b_ag6VorY

 

The freespool functions are all the same - the geometry may be different for the package, but they all work the same (1954 invention).  A yoke lifts the pinion off the spool pins and away from the main gear.  The clutch (different) yoke clicks into a notch at the main shaft, so turning the main shaft will push it free.  Some kind of link connects both yokes, so they move together.  

Different reel brand (different millennium), same idea

 

A is the clutch yoke, B is the pinion yoke, C is the link that moves them together.  Pushing the thumb clutch (D) moves A into grooves (keys) in the main shaft.  Cranking the main shaft pushes A back and releases the clutch mechanism.  

[postoak]

Thanks again, you're the best! I think I understand it all pretty well except 1 or 2 minor things.  I took my Lew's Speed Spool 2nd Gen apart before lunch to watch the upper spring movement.  I said it was anchored on on end into the clutch plate, but it is actually the cam plate.  Safe difference, I think.  And yeah on this Lew's the pinion gear is lifted way up, unlike on the Shimano I had looked at before.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

The height of the opposing ramps on the clutch determines how far the pinion lifts. Some pinions are little deeper and need more lift to clear. It’s minutiae. The basic premise is the same. 

[postoak]

Yeah, a month ago I was afraid to even open one up and sent off a couple for overhauls.  Now, I'm pretty sure I know more about these than 99% of people.  I just wish I had some reels to do maintenance on at this point.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Just don’t get cocky. Many if not most reels have a “gotcha” of some kind in there somewhere. 

[postoak]

Yep, the Speed Spool 2nd Gen's was that the one I have (others don't show this) has two holes in the frame for the upper coil spring. If this anchor pops out and you put it back in the wrong hole, you can't close the side plate.  It took me about 15 minutes to notice the second hole because it is covered by the spring arm.

[bulldog1935]

We gotta get you into a camera.  

At your bench, they can be really handy for bread crumbs to get you back out.  

 

The problem with 1987 reels (ok, '77) - they'll still be working in 2187.  

[redmeansdistortion]

This '72 5000C I redid cleaned up nice.  It spent much of its life fishing the salt at that.

 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

On 11/28/2023 at 12:56 PM, redmeansdistortion said:

This '72 5000C I redid cleaned up nice.  It spent much of its life fishing the salt at that.

 

Saltwater corrosion is the WORST. 

[redmeansdistortion]

1 minute ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

Saltwater corrosion is the WORST. 

It is, but it also comes off fairly easy with a white vinegar bath.

[bulldog1935]

White vinegar also passivates the aluminum, but keep it Far Away from magnesium, which it attacks aggressively.  

 

https://fiberglassflyrodders.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1385

 

Even blue Loctite attacks magnesium - don't use it on your Steez screws.  

[postoak]

I have a camera (well, my iPhone).  I even bought a mini-tripod so that I could film videos. I took 49 photos of my Speed Spool disassembly and it was only by going back and checking those that I noticed there were two holes the arm could go into.  It may seem obvious from the photo (if you zoom in), but you actually have to exert some force to expose the correct hole if the arm has popped out of place.

The photo is upside down from the way I took it.

[bulldog1935]

The only way to see the holes (bosses) is to zoom it past camera resolution - not really a critique of the photo, but the series to have is where the parts were placed before you removed them.